TX - Botham Shem Jean, 26, killed when police officer entered wrong apartment, Dallas, Sept 2018

[rosesfromangels]

<modsnip: snipped quote that was removed> Enough decent people have had enough. This woman will not walk. A new day has dawned.

 

[flourish]

I apologize, I thought it was your opinion.

It can be difficult to tell if there aren't quotation marks or a quote box.

 

[Eclipse]

I wish that didn’t matter. We sometimes have the tendency to care more about victims when they’ve lived “correctly”. I actually remember some reporter saying how the Parkland shooting was so bad because the kids there are so smar, Anyways a bit off topic, but I do wish we’d stop puttingthe victims on trial.

Actually, on the many varied news outlets I have looked at personally- with comments and the forums I have read- people more identify with the fact that a person was killed in what was supposed to be the sanctity of their own home under such a bizarre circumstance. Whoever he was, he was doing nothing but living his life in the privacy of his own home. I think a lot of people can identify with him on that most basic level- the safety they want and expect and the safety he should have had.

 

[imstilla.grandma]

It can be difficult to tell if there aren't quotation marks or a quote box.

Point noted and accepted. Thanks flourish. I’ll try to do a better job clarifying.

 

[Amonet]

CNN affiliate KTVT obtained a copy of an arrest warrant affidavit from the Dallas County District Attorney's Office. Here's what it says:

• Jean lived in apartment #1478, Guyger lives in #1378
• Both apartments are identical or extremely similar in terms of floorplan, exterior surroundings, structure and description
• Jean was home alone when Guyger, still in uniform after her shift, entered the apartment
• Guyger parked her vehicle on the fourth floor, entered the building and walked toward what she thought was her apartment
• She used her door key, which has an electronic chip, to try to enter the apartment
• The door was slightly ajar when she approached it
• The door opened under the force of the key insertion
• The interior of the apartment was nearly completely dark
• Guyger could make out a large silhouette across the room
• She drew her weapon, believing there was an intruder in her apartment
• Her verbal commands to Jean were ignored
• Guyger fired two shots at Jean, striking him once in the torso
• Guyger then entered the apartment, called 911 and started administering first aid to Jean
• She turned on the lights while on the phone with 911, and when they asked for her address, she realized she was in the wrong apartment
• She requested an ambulance and police to come to the apartment
• Jean was transported to Baylor Hospital, where he died
• Guyger remained at the scene and told officers and the 911 operator that she thought she was in her apartment when she shot Jean

New details in case involving Dallas police officer charged with manslaughter

It would be interesting to see if the 911 call corroborates all of of this.

 

[Thora_Jay]

No, I have not seen that. That is a strange statement. She is sounding crazy.

Ok not the one that I read, but here is one I found stating that.

“Officer-involved shooting”

“Guyger then called 911 to report an officer-involved shooting — minutes later, Hall said, officers and EMS with Dallas Fire-Rescue arrived and began to treat the victim. Jean was transported to a hospital where he was later pronounced deceased.”

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbclosangeles.com/news/national-international/Dallas-Police-Identify-Officer-Who-Shot-Botham-Jean-492784591.html?amp=y

 

[Eclipse]

Ok not the one that I read, but here is one I found stating that.

“Officer-involved shooting”

“Guyger then called 911 to report an officer-involved shooting — minutes later, Hall said, officers and EMS with Dallas Fire-Rescue arrived and began to treat the victim. Jean was transported to a hospital where he was later pronounced deceased.”

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbclosangeles.com/news/national-international/Dallas-Police-Identify-Officer-Who-Shot-Botham-Jean-492784591.html?amp=y

Yes, new to me. Very odd. I really wish we could hear the entire 9-11 call!!

 

[imstilla.grandma]

Snip:
At about the time of the arrest, attorneys working with the Jean family held a press conference after meeting with Dallas County District Attorney Faith Johnson. At the time of the press conference the family's attorneys were not under the impression that the officer had been arrested.

Attorney Lee Merritt would not specify, but said the attorneys brought forward new evidence Sunday that could change the course of the investigation.

"We brought forward a witness and video evidence, and again we can't get into the content thereof, but the prevailing narrative is challenged by the evidence that was presented today," Merritt said.
End Snip:

Dallas Officer Who Shot Man in His Home Faces Manslaughter Charge

 

[Amonet]

Honestly, she just seems like a dumb cop too. Dallas needs to start hiring less trigger happy people.

That poor man. He looks just like my cousin. Everytime something like this happen my first thought is that people see someone with black skin and immediately think that we are up to no good.

She couldn’t back away into the hallway, keep her gun on him and give the man a few seconds to explain!?

Ugh. I’m so angry you guys. Such a senseless death.

Taking her story at face value, I would have the same fear of a burglar/intruder in my home regardless of skin color.

I can't really see her putting the gun away if she found a white male in the apartment instead of a black male, because it wouldn't be any comfort to me, so I assume anyone would be the same?

Sometimes I come home in the dark and open the door and I have a thought cross my mind of what if there's a burglar inside? When I'm having that silly panic I tend to open the doors, switch the light on, look around the room and behind the door. Not turning on the lights would be anathema to me when I have that horrible feeling.

Surely fear of the dark in itself can be a primal fear in humans. I know it's mostly when we're children that the fear is strongest but I would think that finding a stranger/burglar/intruder in your home and not knowing if they're there to steal or rape or kill you would make most people go back into that primal fear of the dark mode and want the light on. Yet the affidavit says that she went in and started rendering assistance before she turned on the light? Why would she take even one more step into the apartment without turning on a light, even if she had to go backward (toward the light in the hallway) to get to a light switch?

Maybe her cop training helped her go forward into the dark? I'm the furthest from having cop attitude you can get (I'm a wimp, not a criminal) but even logic says you turn on a light so you can better see and examine your surroundings? If you've shot someone and you're going to render assistance, you need light so you can see where they're bleeding from. So why did she not turn on the light, according to the affidavit, until she's already gone further into the apartment, already attempting to render assistance, and already on the line with 911? Even trying to see this as a genuine mistake and ignoring the stuff about the key and what neighbors might have heard it still doesn't make sense.

I wish she'd noticed the doormat, turned on the light before shooting, backed away from the door and called 911...anything that this wouldn't have happened.

 

[imstilla.grandma]

Fort Worth Star TelegramCrowd gathers to protest shooting death of Botham Jean | Fort Worth ...53 secs ago


Snip from below listed link::
District Attorney Faith Johnson said she was part of a “spirited discussion” with investigators from the Texas Rangers.

And I’m not challenging them on their viewpoint," she said at a news conference Monday morning. "I think they did a great job in preparing the investigation. But what I’m telling you is that now this case is in the hands of the Dallas County District Attorney.”

The affidavit was released publicly after Johnson’s morning news conference.

Jean’s family stood beside Johnson as she spoke, but later said they wanted more answers.

“The promise of transparency to this family has been a blank check,” attorney Lee Merritt said.

Johnson would not speculate about when the case will be taken to the grand jury.
End Snip:

Dallas DA promises 'equal justice' in Botham Jean shooting death case

 

[mickey2942]

Wait, she owns a dog?

Document details Guyger’s account of shooting; Jean’s attorney tells different story

“ There would’ve been a number of identifying markers to alert her including the absence of her dog which she owns.”

"A blood sample will take MONTHS to process". From that article.

Wait a minute, it takes less than an hour to determine blood alcohol levels in a blood sample. There is a problem here...

 

[MsFacetious]

In order to be charged with murder, the defendant must have knowingly and willingly caused the death of another person.

To be convicted of manslaughter, a defendant must be proven beyond reasonable doubt to have recklessly caused the death of another person. As opposed to murder, intent does not need to be proven in order to convict someone of manslaughter."

Knowingly and willingly.
She pointed a gun of her own free will and shot to kill.
Sure sounds knowingly and willingly to me.

What I find interesting is that she shoots him? And, she assumes there are not two or three burglars in the apartment as she turns on the light calling 911. If I thought there was an intruder in my apartment and shot one of them, why would I not be on alert for others, say in my bedroom or near the first room where I would then walk into a potential ambush? She still thinks she is in her apartment at this point. Some is not quite kosher here.

Absolutely. Another thing that goes totally against her training. She doesn't clear the rest of the apartment! Maybe because she realized it wasn't hers? Still odd that she did not check it.

Where was she standing when she shot him and why would she enter the apartment in the dark after shooting him if she was so afraid?

• Guyger fired two shots at Jean, striking him once in the torso
• Guyger then entered the apartment, called 911 and started administering first aid to Jean

I missed that she DID administer first aid. I hope that is true. It would make me feel slightly better at least.

Honestly, she just seems like a dumb cop too. Dallas needs to start hiring less trigger happy people.

That poor man. He looks just like my cousin. Everytime something like this happen my first thought is that people see someone with black skin and immediately think that we are up to no good.

She couldn’t back away into the hallway, keep her gun on him and give the man a few seconds to explain!?

Ugh. I’m so angry you guys. Such a senseless death.

So am I. Very angry. This one has hit me very hard.

Wait, she owns a dog?

Document details Guyger’s account of shooting; Jean’s attorney tells different story

“ There would’ve been a number of identifying markers to alert her including the absence of her dog which she owns.”

Wouldn't you think that she would have wondered why her dog wasn't barking? Or worried about her dog? Checked on her dog? If I thought there was a burglar in my home and my dog was silent I would be FREAKING OUT. Then again... my human children say my dog is my favorite child so...

Ok not the one that I read, but here is one I found stating that.

“Officer-involved shooting”

“Guyger then called 911 to report an officer-involved shooting — minutes later, Hall said, officers and EMS with Dallas Fire-Rescue arrived and began to treat the victim. Jean was transported to a hospital where he was later pronounced deceased.”

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbclosangeles.com/news/national-international/Dallas-Police-Identify-Officer-Who-Shot-Botham-Jean-492784591.html?amp=y

It was initially handled as an officer involved shooting. The police chief said that when explaining it was complicated. Because she was in uniform and with her service weapon but off duty... it was complex.

 

[Eclipse]

Knowingly and willingly.
She pointed a gun of her own free will and shot to kill.
Sure sounds knowingly and willingly to me.




Absolutely. Another thing that goes totally against her training. She doesn't clear the rest of the apartment! Maybe because she realized it wasn't hers? Still odd that she did not check it.




I missed that she DID administer first aid. I hope that is true. It would make me feel slightly better at least.




So am I. Very angry. This one has hit me very hard.




Wouldn't you think that she would have wondered why her dog wasn't barking? Or worried about her dog? Checked on her dog? If I thought there was a burglar in my home and my dog was silent I would be FREAKING OUT. Then again... my human children say my dog is my favorite child so...




It was initially handled as an officer involved shooting. The police chief said that when explaining it was complicated. Because she was in uniform and with her service weapon but off duty... it was complex.

You may very well be right- that it could be made to fit under the murder category.

 

[imstilla.grandma]

Botham Jean's killing by Dallas officer sparks protest at police headquarters | Crime | Dallas News

 

[Amonet]

I wish that didn’t matter. We sometimes have the tendency to care more about victims when they’ve lived “correctly”. I actually remember some reporter saying how the Parkland shooting was so bad because the kids there are so smar, Anyways a bit off topic, but I do wish we’d stop puttingthe victims on trial.

That is bugging me in this case. So this guy is more of a victim because of his education or job? If he had no degree and worked in a factory would that change anything?

That is something I will agree that race might be having a factor on? On the other hand I think that happens to people regardless of color that someone who has a degree and a profession needs less evidence that they're a decent human being than a person who works in a store or a factory? It's just bothering me a bit like "oh he wasn't 'just' a black man, he was a professional and educated Christian man from a family with a 'name'". He was a human being doing nothing wrong in his own home...isn't that enough?

 

[RickshawFan]

...Surely fear of the dark in itself can be a primal fear in humans....

It's a city: they get lit up all night. And there's light in the hallway, and the front door is open. This wasn't a case of darkness, even though the cop might want you to think that.

 

[Michelle.M]

She also forgot where the hell she parked. How could she forget that she parked on the 4th floor parking when she knew upon driving onto that parking garage floor that she would have to go down 1 flight in the elevator.
Forgive me if I am ignorant on this, but my son lived in an apartment building that had a parking garage a few floors. You park on the floor you live on and go through a secure door that leads to the apartment hallway where all the apartments are on that floor. You do not get in an elevator unless you have to go to an upper or lower floor to get to your apartment. (Or unless you come in off the street in the main entrance not the garage) So how did she end up getting on an elevator on the 4th floor that is on the forth floor? What was she doing in the damn elevator unless she knew she had to go a floor down and then all of a sudden have amnesia and not take the elevator down a floor and just step back out of the elevator still on the forth floor? I am confused about this whole murder.

I was thinking the exact same thing.

There are several inconsistent stories and nothing makes sense.

 

[imstilla.grandma]

Snip:
There was a tense protest directed at Dallas Police happened downtown Monday night.

More than 100 people walked up and down Lamar Street near Dallas Police headquarters.

At one point, protesters threatened to walk onto I-30.

The group was chanting Botham Jean’s name.

For more than three hours people took part in the protest put together by the Next Generation Action Network.

They’re asking for “justice for Botham Jean” saying the charges against Amber Guyger should be upgraded from manslaughter to murder.

Monday night, the group stopped at the apartment where shooting happened to say a prayer then headed to I-30. At times tonight things got heated. Protesters were trying to get on the highway. Police had to shoot them with what appeared to be pepper balls.
End Snip:

More Than 100 Protest Dallas Police After Deadly Shooting By Off-Duty Officer

 

[Sillybilly]

Thread closed for review and cleanup.

 

[Sillybilly]

Thread is open again.

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