GUILTY TX - Christina Morris, 23, Plano, 30 August 2014 - #38 *Arrest*

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  • #441
Has the theory been discussed about a possible date rape drug being used?
I am reading how some are questioning about how there couldn't be any evidence of SA since there is no body. What if they found remnants, wrapping or other sorts of evidence of date rape drugs...or perhaps what if SB told them that she herself was drugged by EA that night (Just lucky enough that her friends unknowingly helped her avoid a SA).

Maybe the "good rock" text was his way of luring her into some sort of communication just to get her in his car....hey let's go get some "good rock" we both need some to stay awake while we're at work in a few hours.

As a speculative scenario, this date-rape drug sure makes sense.

What if, in the last minute as they near the car, he said to her, "Hey, I know you have a long drive. Do you need something to wake you up for your drive? I have some Adderall (or other upper)"- and then hands her a date rape drug instead, as they near their cars.

Bingo bango, lots of stuff is easy to speculate using that starting point. Some ideas that then fit easily (although maybe these all don't fit in the same single scenario):

1 She could be in his trunk. Quickly. Or, of course, in his front seat instead. No resistance.
2 He could decide he's going to drive somewhere to do what he wants, and then bring her back.
3 In some part of the equation - initially, or getting her out to do what he wants, or bringing her back to her car to drop her off as if nothing happened - she gets super-feisty and bites and kicks and fights.
4 Or maybe she half-awakes as a passenger, realizes she's being taken for a SA, and puts up the fight while he's trying to drive - which causes him running his car into a wall or tree or something, as well as the bodily injuries, and maybe he's pissed and puts her in the trunk at that point.

Those are ones I can think of off the top of my head. I'm sure there's lots more goodies that would fit, if we start with the idea he date-rape drugged her.

And the date-rape drug could have been shared after she willingly got in his car, instead of in the garage. That works too, and fills in so many of the same boxes.
 
  • #442
Has the theory been discussed about a possible date rape drug being used?
I am reading how some are questioning about how there couldn't be any evidence of SA since there is no body. What if they found remnants, wrapping or other sorts of evidence of date rape drugs...or perhaps what if SB told them that she herself was drugged by EA that night (Just lucky enough that her friends unknowingly helped her avoid a SA).

Maybe the "good rock" text was his way of luring her into some sort of communication just to get her in his car....hey let's go get some "good rock" we both need some to stay awake while we're at work in a few hours.

Jumping off your post, here are some links on date rape drugs:

http://www.medicinenet/date_rape_drugs/article.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Date_rape_drug

You learn something new everyday. I had no idea that Rohypnol was a benzo or that Ambien was the most commonly used date rape drug. And then there is plain old alcohol. Men have getting women drunk for sexual purposes forever. Some work quicker than others. I used to take Ambien. I dumped it when I had a very unpleasant experience with it. It works more quickly than people might think. A double or triple dose would be pretty disorienting.

I think my point is that so many of these are those anyone might have in their medicine cabinet. I do keep thinking about that Dr. Pepper can however. I wonder if EA drank Dr. Pepper as well or might have had some with him.

ETA: Rohypnol and GHB can both cause death. GHB is also known as liquid X. Both are club drugs. GHB is legal to treat narcolepsy.
 
  • #443
Oh, I do think that they have a strong case for AK, but not as concerns actual motive.

I suppose I should say where I am coming from myself. I am a former victim advocate and CASA and an ardent feminist. I have long believed sexual abuse crimes are not so much crimes of sex alone but of hatred, anger, and violence. Men (and women!) have all kinds of sexual urges and fantasies but we do not act on them. It takes a mind set of anger, hatred, or sometimes even self-loathing to enact the crime of violence that sexual/assault actually are. Psychologically there are different types of rapists and child molesters. One of these is referred to as power and control rapist. I think that if EA committed SA in his kidnapping of Christina, that that is most likely the kind of rapist that he is. His relationship with that teenage girl may have been exploitative, but that would have never satisfied his kink.

For me the word "frustrated" is pretty lame.

I am wondering though if the aggravated part of the AK requires something like the sexual motive to actually prove AK?

Hey, DaisyGirl - forgive me for going out for food and libations tonight, nice to come home and feel all this love. You are correct, SA crimes are about power, but in this case, EA is only charged with AK, and the backup for AK is to commit bodily injury or sexually assault. Meaning he wanted her for one of those 2 reasons. I think LE has it right. We need to teach our girls these days to carry pepper spray (if not a gun). You just don't know who is going to come unglued at some point. Hoping we will start working on your daughter's case soon. What can any of us do?
 
  • #444
Hey, DaisyGirl - forgive me for going out for food and libations tonight, nice to come home and feel all this love. You are correct, SA crimes are about power, but in this case, EA is only charged with AK, and the backup for AK is to commit bodily injury or sexually assault. Meaning he wanted her for one of those 2 reasons. I think LE has it right. We need to teach our girls these days to carry pepper spray (if not a gun). You just don't know who is going to come unglued at some point. Hoping we will start working on your daughter's case soon. What can any of us do?

Not get me banned, for one thing. The thread was closed. More than that is not for me to say here. I do have a Facebook page. Thank you for asking. :cheers:

ETA: Just noticed my inbox is full here. I do wish I knew how to archive messages.
 
  • #445
Looking into drugs a bit more, for I confess I do find the drug angle interesting, I made a search of "can molly be injected?" Here is what Bing served me:

http://www.ecstasy.org/qanda/q71.html

Pretty crazy stuff. Also searched, "can molly cause death?"

http://drug.addictionblog.org/can-you-die-from-taking-molly/

Molly alone can kill a person. It seems to me that if the prosecution decides to pursue evidence of a date rape drug, they are going to run into something called "opening the door for the defense."
 
  • #446
Interesting thought. You mean like a snuff film or just general pics of the partying of the night?

Either, really, although snuff seems unlikely. There would be Murder One charges by now if they'd found that. I'm thinking possibly photos of Christina and/or the other girls taken when they were unaware.
 
  • #447
I had to look up what these drugs in pill form looked like and depending on the strength and it being generic/brand Rohypnol, Ambien and Adderall could all look alike.

EA claims PP gave her an Adderall but who know that she didn't get something from him. I am starting to believe he might have given her something (not by force) during their walk to the garage so perhaps by the time they got to the garage 10 or 20 min later she was more relaxed & easily conned into going somewhere else with him or quickly overpowered. Most drugs take roughly 15-20min to take affect, right?

A guy who would use these type of tactics on women, IMO, would be someone like EA. I know you can't ever tell but he has a history of strange, manipulative and lying relationships with women (young girl, gf of 5yrs, the SB situation according to affidavits)... And these are just the ones we know of. Three for three is not a good track record.
 
  • #448
My point is that TX isn't a place where you'd want to commit a severe crime, especially considering the nature of this state's reputation regarding race, religion, gun laws and the CJ system itself. Just my 2 cents...again, check the facts for yourself. http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/reports#YER

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I don't know where to start to look up such information but does TX have a lower crime rate than states with less severe punishments and more liberal attitudes.

Is EA's reluctance to talk simply a way to avoid a DP charge until or unless it becomes unaviodable?
 
  • #449
I don't know where to start to look up such information but does TX have a lower crime rate than states with less severe punishments and more liberal attitudes.

Is EA's reluctance to talk simply a way to avoid a DP charge until or unless it becomes unaviodable?

Suzyjackson, I know you did not address your post to me. I think EA's reluctance to talk at this time could have a lot to do with the death penalty because both he and his lawyer would be clear on the risk. However, I do also think the he may actually get pleasure from Christina's family suffering and not knowing where she is. I know that this is probably a minority view, but my sense of him is that he is quite a grievance collector and that he may feel that he is the one who has been badly treated. Most people would see this as irrational. However, I do not feel that he is in anyway insane. That is just the sense of him I got from the interview he gave in his home. My opinion only. (Not a shrink!)
 
  • #450
Suzyjackson, I know you did not address your post to me. I think EA's reluctance to talk at this time could have a lot to do with the death penalty because both he and his lawyer would be clear on the risk. However, I do also think the he may actually get pleasure from Christina's family suffering and not knowing where she is. I know that this is probably a minority view, but my sense of him is that he is quite a grievance collector and that he may feel that he is the one who has been badly treated. Most people would see this as irrational. However, I do not feel that he is in anyway insane. That is just the sense of him I got from the interview he gave in his home. My opinion only. (Not a shrink!)

Not your opinion only! I agree & have posted a very similar thought, pertaining to his mindset..
 
  • #451
Suzyjackson, I know you did not address your post to me. I think EA's reluctance to talk at this time could have a lot to do with the death penalty because both he and his lawyer would be clear on the risk. However, I do also think the he may actually get pleasure from Christina's family suffering and not knowing where she is. I know that this is probably a minority view, but my sense of him is that he is quite a grievance collector and that he may feel that he is the one who has been badly treated. Most people would see this as irrational. However, I do not feel that he is in anyway insane. That is just the sense of him I got from the interview he gave in his home. My opinion only. (Not a shrink!)

Funny, DT, someone just posted about this in a Jodi Arias thread and it made me think of EA. (I can't find the original post as there are way too many to look through)

Victim Mentality
Victim mentality is an acquired (learned) personality trait in which a person tends to regard him or herself as a victim of the negative actions of others, and to think, speak and act as if that were the case — even in the absence of clear evidence. It depends on habitual thought processes and attribution.

Victim mentality is primarily learned, for example,from family members and situations during childhood. It contrasts with the psychologically better-researched traits of neuroticism and psychoticism, both of which have a stronger biological or genetic basis. Neuroticism may be defined as general emotional instability or a generally enhanced tendency to experience negative emotions. Psychoticism is characterised by hostility and aggression.

What victim mentality, neuroticism and psychoticism have in common is a relatively high frequency of negative emotional states such as anger, sadness, and fear. But these three traits are also partially independent: for example a given individual may have a high degree of victim mentality and a low degree of neuroticism, in which case a clinical psychologist is unlikely to regard her or him as needing treatment. Conversely, a given individual may have a high degree of neuroticism and a low degree of victim mentality.

In the most general sense, a victim is anyone who experiences injury, loss, or misfortune as a result of some event or series of events. This experience, however, is insufficient for the emergence of a sense of victimhood.

It has been suggested that individuals define themselves as a victim if they believe that:
*they were harmed;
*they were not responsible for the occurrence of the harmful act;
*they were under no obligation to prevent the harm;
*the harm constituted an injustice in that it violated their rights (if inflicted by a person) and/or in that they possessed qualities (e.g., strength or goodness of character) making them persons whom that harm did not befit
*they deserve sympathy.

The desire of sympathy is crucial in that the mere experience of a harmful event is not enough for the emergence of the sense of being a victim. In order to have this sense there is the need to perceive the harm as undeserved, unjust and immoral, an act that could not be prevented by the victim. The need to obtain empathy can then emerge.

<snip>

A victim mentality may be reflected by linguistic markers or habits, such as pretending:
*not to be able to do something ("I can't..."),
*not to have choices ("I must..."), or
*not to know the answer to a question ("I don't know").
[^^^Sounds familiar, huh?^^^]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victim_mentality
 
  • #452
Looking into drugs a bit more, for I confess I do find the drug angle interesting, I made a search of "can molly be injected?" Here is what Bing served me:

http://www.ecstasy.org/qanda/q71.html




Pretty crazy stuff. Also searched, "can molly cause death?"

http://drug.addictionblog.org/can-you-die-from-taking-molly/

Molly alone can kill a person. It seems to me that if the prosecution decides to pursue evidence of a date rape drug, they are going to run into something called "opening the door for the defense."

Yeah, if he used a date rape drug, that would make sense. However, I think they would have to be able to PROVE that he gave it to her.

When I was wild and stupid and around the same age as these kids, we would binge on amphetamines for a few days and then use rohyphnol to come down. I stopped playing that game when I came to in the parking lot of my apartment with no recollection of how I got there or why. But, my point is, some people take these drugs willingly. And I think it would be hard to prove he gave it to her.
 
  • #453
Really interesting point about the date rape drugs, I didnt think of that at all.
 
  • #454
I don't know where to start to look up such information but does TX have a lower crime rate than states with less severe punishments and more liberal attitudes.

Is EA's reluctance to talk simply a way to avoid a DP charge until or unless it becomes unaviodable?

This is probably really valid point.

I also agree EA sees himself as some sort of victim in all this. I see him as very cocky and arrogant.
How can he be so confident CM is not going to be found any minute?
 
  • #455
I don't know where to start to look up such information but does TX have a lower crime rate than states with less severe punishments and more liberal attitudes.

Is EA's reluctance to talk simply a way to avoid a DP charge until or unless it becomes unaviodable?

Suzy, I did a very quick search so there may even be reports with explanations, etc. Here is what I did find. It's a comparison of Pheonix Arizona #6 in population vs Dallas Tx #9 in population in the US. I chose Arizona bc they have the same issue with immigrants, drugs, proximity from the border, similar racial profile, year round temps tend to be somewhat similar (that matters IMO), & a few other similarities.

Arizona has only executed 37 indiv since 1976 vs Texas at 522 since 1976. Much different mentality concerning (or not) the lives of criminals and punishment. If anything, Tx has a higher crime rate than other similar states.

http://www.bestplaces.net/crime/?city1=54819000&city2=50455000


image.jpg
 
  • #456
Yeah, if he used a date rape drug, that would make sense. However, I think they would have to be able to PROVE that he gave it to her.

Yes you're right that the idea of a date-rape event and drug is more speculative. But it's being batted around here as part of a somewhat different discussion than the court case itself.

It's unlikely imo that LE is going to introduce stuff like this into the trial. No need to muddy the waters with things that don't matter, and it isn't necessary to prove HOW he was able to overpower her quickly and easily. What matters is proving that she was abducted, and imo they'll simply focus on the fact that at some point after the video at 3:55 (not trying to prove exactly which minute it happened, nor where), EA put her IN HIS TRUNK (where she wouldn't have been willingly, or for her welfare) and there's your abduction.

In discussions about the details of what might have happened that night, and where CM might be, it's not really about proof. Just ideas and speculation.
 
  • #457
Yeah, if he used a date rape drug, that would make sense. However, I think they would have to be able to PROVE that he gave it to her.

When I was wild and stupid and around the same age as these kids, we would binge on amphetamines for a few days and then use rohyphnol to come down. I stopped playing that game when I came to in the parking lot of my apartment with no recollection of how I got there or why. But, my point is, some people take these drugs willingly. And I think it would be hard to prove he gave it to her.

I keep thinking back to EA's injuries. Would someone who has been roofied put up such a fight? I always thought that was the whole purpose of date rape drugs - to incapacitate the victim as well as leave no memory of the assault.
 
  • #458
Yeah, if he used a date rape drug, that would make sense. However, I think they would have to be able to PROVE that he gave it to her.

When I was wild and stupid and around the same age as these kids, we would binge on amphetamines for a few days and then use rohyphnol to come down. I stopped playing that game when I came to in the parking lot of my apartment with no recollection of how I got there or why. But, my point is, some people take these drugs willingly. And I think it would be hard to prove he gave it to her.

Yes. There's the rub, as they say. They who have to prove the drug was administered forcibly (with perhaps a needlemark and bruising) and that the dose would be such that no reasonable human being would take it. Maybe if they also found other rape kit stuff they could make a case. But there is no available body, likely no witnesses, in other words, no proof.

I am glad that you stopped and took a different direction in your life. Nothing speaks more clearly than the voice of experience.
 
  • #459
Wow! I just finally finished reading all the threads on Christina. Can you believe it's taken me almost a month to catch up.

Everyone's theories, ideas, etc. are great. I'm torn about what I think. I think EA is definately guilty. I do believe that a relative helped him. The first thing that EVER popped into my head when I was watching that interview was when he mentioned his brother. I instantly thought something was up. I even said out loud to myself, "why would he even say that?" Guilty people slip up when they are telling their side, and don't even realize it. I think that LE possibly has footage that they are keeping secret from the garage.
I recently watched an episode of Forensic Files where a woman had gone missing. There was no DNA evidence from her in his trunk. He had vacuumed it. BUT they found a cat hair. One little cat hair. It matched her cat perfectly. Don't fool yourself, the police have so much more than we even know. These are just my own opinions.
 
  • #460
Jumping off your post, here are some links on date rape drugs:

http://www.medicinenet/date_rape_drugs/article.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Date_rape_drug

You learn something new everyday. I had no idea that Rohypnol was a benzo or that Ambien was the most commonly used date rape drug. And then there is plain old alcohol. Men have getting women drunk for sexual purposes forever. Some work quicker than others. I used to take Ambien. I dumped it when I had a very unpleasant experience with it. It works more quickly than people might think. A double or triple dose would be pretty disorienting.

I think my point is that so many of these are those anyone might have in their medicine cabinet. I do keep thinking about that Dr. Pepper can however. I wonder if EA drank Dr. Pepper as well or might have had some with him.

ETA: Rohypnol and GHB can both cause death. GHB is also known as liquid X. Both are club drugs. GHB is legal to treat narcolepsy.

Dang, I never would have guessed that about using GHB for narcolepsy, but if amphetamines calm the brains of those with ADHD, makes sense.
Neurochemistry of the brain is fascinating but way too complex for my own brain to handle.
 
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