TX TX - Elizabeth Barraza, 29, murdered setting up garage sale, Harris Co, Jan 2019 #7

[sprightly]

(Handsome or wearing makeup men in wigs are instantly calming to women, but I wonder if it was more mundane).

RSBM -- maybe it's just me, but I don't find strange men "instantly calming," ever, and even LESS so if they're wearing makeup or a wig.

 

[Charlot123]

So, I got really curious about some cases of other people who had been gunned down in their driveways.

John Harden, Florida. March 22nd 1975. Shot after being lured out to his burning car in the middle of the night. Motive: unknown Status: Unsolved. Lots of speculation about labor unions he was involved with, and some sideyes at his wife at the time as well as ex-wife. Murder weapon: Antique style shotgun. John Harden

Dan Markel, July 19th 2014. Shot in his driveway by unknown assailants later to be uncovered as paid hitmen. Motive: Custody dispute. Perpetrators: The victims ex-wife and former brother-in-law. Murder weapon: Revolver. *Interesting note: The ex-wife booked a ticket to Vietnam in order to escape prosecution. A Florida dentist was convicted of having his brother-in-law killed. His mother was charged in the plot days later.

Robert and Robbie Ford, Conway South Carolina. August 17th 2018. Gunned down in their driveway before their car was set on fire. Motive: Both to be killed so the Robert's daughter would inherit his money and not have to share it with Robbie. Murder weapon: Unspecified handgun (looking for a source but possibly also a revolver, no shell casings at the scene. Used footprints and cigarrete butts as evidence) Interesting note: The weapon was provided by the daughter, stolen from her father about a year earlier. Perp: The daughters on again off again boyfriend. Aynor woman found guilty in murder-for-hire killings of father, half-brother

Micheal Doerr, February 26th 2019. 51 year old fighfighter gunned down in his driveway after a shift at work. Motive: Life insurance money and pension. Perpetrator: Wife's lover. Murder weapon: "The Judge" revolver. *Interesting note: It was stolen from a pawn shop by the wife's lover's son working their at the time.

Judge sentences Elizabeth Fox-Doerr for murder-conspiracy plot to kill husband

Vanderburgh County Superior Court Judge Robert J. Pigman sentenced Fox-Doerr during a hearing Monday after a jury found her guilty of murder in May.

www.courierpress.com

I believe the Mo Wilson murder is A LOT more like Liz's case, and it was hard not to mention the similarities. I am trying to stick to the point of examining people who were murdered in their driveways.

Comparing the cases:

A revolver was used in each case, minus the shotgun case. I did not choose these cases specifically looking for revolvers, either.

In nearly every case, the murder weapon was provided to the perp. My mind has always jogged about how the shooter in Liz's case obtained the revolver. I go back and forth on it being all they had available to them, it being provided to them, or them choosing it strategically in order to not leave casings and avoid jams. *Side note - I believe Liz's shooter is female and I think there is a strong case they stole or "borrowed" the weapon.

In nearly each case, the murder was schemed by a woman and the perps were men acting on their behalf. Once again, I did not choose these cases to cherry pick. They are cases that I remember listening to on true crime episodes and noted the victims were all shot in their driveways.

What does this mean for Liz?

Possibly nothing. One could easily argue Liz was a female victim likely shot by a female perpetrator. One could also argue Mo Wilson's murder is a better example for comparison than any of the cases I mentioned.

Either ways, this is just some food for thought comparisons about victims who were gunned down in their driveways.

Thank you. My feeling is that in Liz case, a revolver was chosen not to leave casings behind. But I feel that the shooter is not too experienced in using revolvers.

All your cases except for the Harden’s one (too old) have money as the underlying reason. And, might I say, there is shockingly primitive mentality for so well-off and visibly smart people as Markel’s ex.

Mo Wilson’s case is more complex. On the one hand, Kaitlin Armstrong is the typical example of a woman defending her “oikos” (husband, household, kids, all “womanhood’s” in Ancient Greece). On the other one, look at her anger. I personally think that Mo, an ascending star, and Colin, a rapidly descending one, were on divergent paths in life. But for Kaitlin, Mo was the first sign of own doomed relationship with Colin.

Add envy to the mix. Psychologically, I view Mo Wilson’s murder similar to that of Namiko Takaba in Nagoya. There is a strong “I am better than her” component in both cases. Also, the primary goal (to obtain/keep the man) is imperceptibly substituted by another one (to win the competition with the other woman). I don’t know whether the fact that both Mo and Kaitlin were athletes (the competitiveness) and so was Kamiko Yasufuku plays the role.But that both killers, originally smart and put together women, turned into mindless destructors over nothing, is shocking.

RSBM -- maybe it's just me, but I don't find strange men "instantly calming," ever, and even LESS so if they're wearing makeup or a wig.

First, an androgynous man is perceived as “non-threatening”. Also, such guys are nice shopping companions and give much better advices than regular dudes. It was a shopping event, after all.

 

[Angelcat13]

In general, the existence of a spousal life insurance is not the reason to kill a wife at all, if the relationship is strong and people plan to raise a family.

How was the Barrazza’s life before Liz was killed? We don’t have any evidence that it was bad. They were hard-working, had a mutual hobby, plans to travel. Character-wise, they seem to have been complementary. Unless we are not privy to all information.

This being said, no one can rule out the existence of a not too-normal person, madly and unreasonably in love with Sergio, who thought that they were “clearing the space” for themselves, not realizing that her feeling was unrequited. (And then Sergio remarries, has a child, and the person realizes that they, essentially, made a fool out of themselves and are a criminal now.) This is one version.

Version two is that the murder is unrelated to Sergio at all and stems from earlier time. That’s where it becomes hard, because the killer, likely, looks and behaves normally but is seriously unbalanced.

Your post (the bbm part) along with a comment you made in a previous post made me wonder a few things.

1. How long had Liz & Sergio been married (sorry for being lazy at the moment and not looking this up)?

2. Did Sergio ever mention anyone from his past that he thought may have been obsessed with him - someone he dated (even if only one date), someone he worked with, went to Church with, in the 501 group, etc? This may not even be someone Sergio was aware of at the time, but looking back may cause him to think twice about.

3. Was Liz always cautious (“Liz was indeed very cautious even when she opened the garage door.”) or was this a new behavior, possibly because she sensed someone may be watching her?

Your post made me think about this because of what happened to my mom. My parents married after a relatively short time (by 1960’s standards) knowing each other. My dad had previously dated (a couple of casual dates) another woman who apparently thought things were much more serious than they were and envisioned a future with him. She continued to try to have contact with my dad but he made it clear that there was and never would be any relationship. She completely lost it when she found out my mom was pregnant and began stalking and threatening my mom. My dad travelled a lot on business and it became so bad that police were involved and my parents got a dog. This continued for months until my dad was transferred and my parents moved across the country. (Fortunately my parents went on to have a wonderful marriage for the next ~ 40 years until my dad died.)

 

[Marzipan]

Your post (the bbm part) along with a comment you made in a previous post made me wonder a few things.

1. How long had Liz & Sergio been married (sorry for being lazy at the moment and not looking this up)?

2. Did Sergio ever mention anyone from his past that he thought may have been obsessed with him - someone he dated (even if only one date), someone he worked with, went to Church with, in the 501 group, etc? This may not even be someone Sergio was aware of at the time, but looking back may cause him to think twice about.

3. Was Liz always cautious (“Liz was indeed very cautious even when she opened the garage door.”) or was this a new behavior, possibly because she sensed someone may be watching her?

Your post made me think about this because of what happened to my mom. My parents married after a relatively short time (by 1960’s standards) knowing each other. My dad had previously dated (a couple of casual dates) another woman who apparently thought things were much more serious than they were and envisioned a future with him. She continued to try to have contact with my dad but he made it clear that there was and never would be any relationship. She completely lost it when she found out my mom was pregnant and began stalking and threatening my mom. My dad travelled a lot on business and it became so bad that police were involved and my parents got a dog. This continued for months until my dad was transferred and my parents moved across the country. (Fortunately my parents went on to have a wonderful marriage for the next ~ 40 years until my dad died.)

What a good ending! I have to ask — was your dad a handsome man? Sergio may be a wonderful man, but it’s hard to picture anyone being obsessed with him. Liz must have truly loved him — and it’s possible, but it seems like that would be more likely for a more physically attractive person, at least with a female stalker. I’m sure someone with knowledge of exceptions will let me know where I’ve gone wrong, which is fine.

 

[Charlot123]

Your post (the bbm part) along with a comment you made in a previous post made me wonder a few things.

1. How long had Liz & Sergio been married (sorry for being lazy at the moment and not looking this up)?

2. Did Sergio ever mention anyone from his past that he thought may have been obsessed with him - someone he dated (even if only one date), someone he worked with, went to Church with, in the 501 group, etc? This may not even be someone Sergio was aware of at the time, but looking back may cause him to think twice about.

3. Was Liz always cautious (“Liz was indeed very cautious even when she opened the garage door.”) or was this a new behavior, possibly because she sensed someone may be watching her?

Your post made me think about this because of what happened to my mom. My parents married after a relatively short time (by 1960’s standards) knowing each other. My dad had previously dated (a couple of casual dates) another woman who apparently thought things were much more serious than they were and envisioned a future with him. She continued to try to have contact with my dad but he made it clear that there was and never would be any relationship. She completely lost it when she found out my mom was pregnant and began stalking and threatening my mom. My dad travelled a lot on business and it became so bad that police were involved and my parents got a dog. This continued for months until my dad was transferred and my parents moved across the country. (Fortunately my parents went on to have a wonderful marriage for the next ~ 40 years until my dad died.)

I was shocked with Namiko Takaba's murder. Just how stupid the motive is. What did this woman stalking your mother expect to achieve? Did she think wives were interchangeable?

1) Sergio and Liz were a tad short of 5 years of being married. I thing Sergio said that they had met at Sam Houston but started dating after a year. (The way i understand, either one or both of them were in other relationships; but this is just my interpretation). He definitely immediately noticed her. So I forgot how long they dated, 2-3 years before marriage.

2) I don't know, but I think that Sergio should sit down and think of all his friends. He might have been inadvertently providing someone with information helping to plan the attack on Liz. The attacker might be a GF/BF of someone close to him. Also: I don't know whether people can get "obsessed with Sergio or not", people have different tastes. However, the person may be in a very bad relationship and think that "I would have been happier with Sergio". The person might have fallen in love with Sergio for just one reason, that he is different from her husband.

(About preferences: when I first saw Colin Strickland on TV, I thought, "OMG, look at this this long-faced nudnik who seriously talks about what he eats! This is dull". And yet, one very attractive woman was killed by another very attractive woman for this bore. Let’s assume that everyone is obsessive-worthy.)

3) Liz and her brother were always "aware", her mom said. Since childhood. Mom raised them to be mindful of surroundings since their childhood in Chicago. So it was not new.

 

[Angelcat13]

Is there any possibility that this crime could be due to road rage like if there was an encounter Liz had that morning with the perp while going to get Starbucks?

I tend to think of road rage as more impulsive. Liz’s murder seems more calculated.

Fairly recently there was a murder in the town next to mine that occurred after someone reportedly cut in front of someone else in line at a Rita’s Water Ice.

The person who felt “wronged” followed a vehicle occupied by the other person and opened fire killing two young men.

This was an immediate, not a calculated response to a perceived “wrong”.

 

[Angelcat13]

What a good ending! I have to ask — was your dad a handsome man? Sergio may be a wonderful man, but it’s hard to picture anyone being obsessed with him. Liz must have truly loved him — and it’s possible, but it seems like that would be more likely for a more physically attractive person, at least with a female stalker. I’m sure someone with knowledge of exceptions will let me know where I’ve gone wrong, which is fine.

I am his daughter so I may be prejudiced , but I do think he was handsome. But he also grew up a mid-western farm boy, became a Navy Pilot to (in part) get GI benefits to get a college education and become a successful engineer. He was a good husband and father, came to almost all of our school things, dance recitals, horse shows, etc. so I could see someone thinking he would be what they wanted.

 

[flowershop]

I was shocked with Namiko Takaba's murder. Just how stupid the motive is. What did this woman stalking your mother expect to achieve? Did she think wives were interchangeable?

1) Sergio and Liz were a tad short of 5 years of being married. I thing Sergio said that they had met at Sam Houston but started dating after a year. (The way i understand, either one or both of them were in other relationships; but this is just my interpretation). He definitely immediately noticed her. So I forgot how long they dated, 2-3 years before marriage.

2) I don't know, but I think that Sergio should sit down and think of all his friends. He might have been inadvertently providing someone with information helping to plan the attack on Liz. The attacker might be a GF/BF of someone close to him. Also: I don't know whether people can get "obsessed with Sergio or not", people have different tastes. However, the person may be in a very bad relationship and think that "I would have been happier with Sergio". The person might have fallen in love with Sergio for just one reason, that he is different from her husband.

(About preferences: when I first saw Colin Strickland on TV, I thought, "OMG, look at this this long-faced nudnik who seriously talks about what he eats! This is dull". And yet, one very attractive woman was killed by another very attractive woman for this bore. Let’s assume that everyone is obsessive-worthy.)

3) Liz and her brother were always "aware", her mom said. Since childhood. Mom raised them to be mindful of surroundings since their childhood in Chicago. So it was not new.

LOL. I like how you arrived at "let's assume that everyone is obsessive-worthy".

 

[flowershop]

Until reading this thread tonight, I learned about the shooter showing LB a note. I have read a fair amount on this case and listened to the YouTube program with the interview of Det. Ritchie. How did I miss that detail!

I am thinking of what could possibly be on that paper...

-a note that LB had written to a friend or family member that was for their eyes only but then intercepted by the murderer

- a bank statement

-a sort of performance review that LB wrote at work (or possibly for the 501st) that felt insulting to the murderer

-a print out of a social media post that the murderer took issue with

Or was it a photo of SB and the shooter from the past?

 

[CrimeTheorist]

The idea that she was given something was never confirmed by police. It's just what some people have speculated is happening when they look at the video.

 

[sunspun]

Until reading this thread tonight, I learned about the shooter showing LB a note. I have read a fair amount on this case and listened to the YouTube program with the interview of Det. Ritchie. How did I miss that detail!

I am thinking of what could possibly be on that paper...

-a note that LB had written to a friend or family member that was for their eyes only but then intercepted by the murderer

- a bank statement

-a sort of performance review that LB wrote at work (or possibly for the 501st) that felt insulting to the murderer

-a print out of a social media post that the murderer took issue with

Or was it a photo of SB and the shooter from the past?

I still think it was just a prop of sorts, that the shooter used to get Liz to come closer to them. I don't think it was anything of meaningful value.

 

[Angelcat13]

Until reading this thread tonight, I learned about the shooter showing LB a note. I have read a fair amount on this case and listened to the YouTube program with the interview of Det. Ritchie. How did I miss that detail!

I am thinking of what could possibly be on that paper...

-a note that LB had written to a friend or family member that was for their eyes only but then intercepted by the murderer

- a bank statement

-a sort of performance review that LB wrote at work (or possibly for the 501st) that felt insulting to the murderer

-a print out of a social media post that the murderer took issue with

Or was it a photo of SB and the shooter from the past?

I was thinking along the same lines and wondered if the shooter showed a note, photo, etc to Liz to “prove” to Liz that she (the shooter) and Sergio were in a relationship (even if only in her own mind). It could have been an old photo/note or even made up/photo-shopped.

 

[Charlot123]

Until reading this thread tonight, I learned about the shooter showing LB a note. I have read a fair amount on this case and listened to the YouTube program with the interview of Det. Ritchie. How did I miss that detail!

I am thinking of what could possibly be on that paper...

-a note that LB had written to a friend or family member that was for their eyes only but then intercepted by the murderer

- a bank statement

-a sort of performance review that LB wrote at work (or possibly for the 501st) that felt insulting to the murderer

-a print out of a social media post that the murderer took issue with

Or was it a photo of SB and the shooter from the past?

- Either of the things you have mentioned could have hinted at the motive and the person. That would have been enough to find the person. It hasn’t happened.

- So I think it was something generic but recognizable to Liz. Imagine the phrase “mene, tekel, upharsin”. Everyone will think it refers to the current execution of Liz. But if Liz once said it in a very specific situation to someone else, meaning, “she won’t get back with you”, the person would remember the context, and so might Liz. (I am using a less common variation here, as some people say “the writing is on the wall” five times a day).

- So I think that it was something generic- could be Biblical, for example
- it is not helpful to the police, it is not a personal photo by any means, as that would allow to find the people and the situation, and it has not happened
- it might have been a hint to Liz but also, served as a prop
- det. Richie, at least, knows the mentality of the person writing it and has a certain idea how it is related to Liz’s life, mindset and views.

- The worst situation, and I am afraid this is why it takes so long: Sometimes I wonder if the killing is very personal but masked as “indignation of a certain group holding specific views”, and this is what makes it difficult to solve.

Just an example of what I might be thinking of:

- imagine that the person pretends to be “one of the many” unjustly accused of domestic violence. He now promises to target any woman who volunteered in a DV shelter. The police has a hard job, because shelters are anonymous and there are many disgruntled abusers in TX.

But in fact, Liz never volunteered in a DV shelter. She once rode her friend there, to help one person escape. Liz’s killer is that abuser, his revenge is personal and linked to one, but he masks it behind “the cause”.

 

[flowershop]

- Either of the things you have mentioned could have hinted at the motive and the person. That would have been enough to find the person. It hasn’t happened.

- So I think it was something generic but recognizable to Liz. Imagine the phrase “mene, tekel, upharsin”. Everyone will think it refers to the current execution of Liz. But if Liz once said it in a very specific situation to someone else, meaning, “she won’t get back with you”, the person would remember the context, and so might Liz. (I am using a less common variation here, as some people say “the writing is on the wall” five times a day).

- So I think that it was something generic- could be Biblical, for example
- it is not helpful to the police, it is not a personal photo by any means, as that would allow to find the people and the situation, and it has not happened
- it might have been a hint to Liz but also, served as a prop
- det. Richie, at least, knows the mentality of the person writing it and has a certain idea how it is related to Liz’s life, mindset and views.

- The worst situation, and I am afraid this is why it takes so long: Sometimes I wonder if the killing is very personal but masked as “indignation of a certain group holding specific views”, and this is what makes it difficult to solve.

Just an example of what I might be thinking of:

- imagine that the person pretends to be “one of the many” unjustly accused of domestic violence. He now promises to target any woman who volunteered in a DV shelter. The police has a hard job, because shelters are anonymous and there are many disgruntled abusers in TX.

But in fact, Liz never volunteered in a DV shelter. She once rode her friend there, to help one person escape. Liz’s killer is that abuser, his revenge is personal and linked to one, but he masks it behind “the cause”.

This paper isn't in LE's possession or hasn't been picked up by the cameras..right?

I have been leaning towards LE already having their suspect but the suspect doesn't know they are a suspect yet. But that is not to discount what you have stated. I could definitely see an abuser of one of LB's friends holding resentment towards her if she tried to intervene. Can you tell me where this was first mentioned....

 

[rosesfromangels]

Lots of great speculations being shared as to why the Perp targeted and killed Liz. The reality is that anyone demented enough to carry out the act, anything could have triggered them…a voice commanding them to do so….rage over an innocent text exchange….or any number of perceived grievances.

I’m interested if there has been any insights as to who had an unnatural interest in Liz that festered and built in intensity to the murderous act.

This is someone close to her inner circle, who had routine access to her. Nothing random about this. Obsession.

Amateur opinion and speculation only