TX - Five Yates children drowned, Houston, 20 June 2001 *Insanity*

[TexMex]

Latest from court today

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/special/drownings/4057682.html

Dr. Phillip Resnick, who interviewed Yates twice after her children's deaths and also reviewed other psychiatrists' interviews with her, said Yates believed she had ruined her children and that they would grow up to sin and then be sent to hell.

She believed she could save their souls if she killed them before they reached age 10, which she considered the age of responsibility, Resnick said.

He said Yates believed that John, 5, would become a serial killer.
"Another son would grow up to be a mute, homosexual prostitute,'' Resnick said.

 

[concernedperson]

BGG, that is a good post. It addresses a lot of problems people have. It also educates to the possibilities.Thank you for being honest and upfront.

I choose to address the issues head on. No one but me is receptive (that is Ok) and I can walk away without further damage. The reason I can is that I have had enough of lies and coverup. I won't take drugs to alleviate what is obvious. My body does react when attacked but I am keeping the faith.I will deal with all and not be sidetracked by dysfunctional behavior.

Because that is what it is. Others manipulating is gruesome and if Andrea wasn't on any levity than she fell victim.I rarely give a free pass to anyone who commits murder. But, this case is an extreme because Andrea was an extreme and others used this.If Rusty was so wonderful and religious he would have seeked help but he didn't. He controlled the situation.Thus, allowing the aftermath.

 

[Nore]

BGG, that is a good post. It addresses a lot of problems people have. It also educates to the possibilities.Thank you for being honest and upfront.

I choose to address the issues head on. No one but me is receptive (that is Ok) and I can walk away without further damage. The reason I can is that I have had enough of lies and coverup. I won't take drugs to alleviate what is obvious. My body does react when attacked but I am keeping the faith.I will deal with all and not be sidetracked by dysfunctional behavior.

Because that is what it is. Others manipulating is gruesome and if Andrea wasn't on any levity than she fell victim.I rarely give a free pass to anyone who commits murder. But, this case is an extreme because Andrea was an extreme and others used this.If Rusty was so wonderful and religious he would have seeked help but he didn't. He controlled the situation.Thus, allowing the aftermath.

-----------

Did anyone else see Nancy Grace this afternoon? I saw part of it,talking with I believe a Defense lawyer~cant remember his name (praying someone else saw it too) Nancy was talking with Beth Karas.Oh Dear God now I cant remember if it was Nancy or Catherine Crier! I was busy so couldn't sit and watch it.The lawyer really came down on Rusty Yates and the Doctor.Boy he left them have it both barrels! It was Catherine! I remember her saying many people feel Rusty is just as guilty.She mentioned "quotes" she has read and I swear I have read them on WS from posters!By the time she was finished speaking I was certain she reads our boards! One quote in particular was a bit different,I know it came from here.When I remember it I will post it.He said the Dr. should have been charged with malpractice,and mentioned Rusty getting Andrea pregnant again after Dr.said it would bring on another psychosis.He said for Rusty to leave her alone with the children when he knew how sick she was made him (in so many words) just as guilty or more as Andrea.I thought at last someone has the guts to speak against rompin'Rusty! I was so glad he said that.If anyone can find the transcripts please do print~an interesting read.

 

[LinasK]

I've been on Effexor. While it's designed for severe depression or obessessive complusive disorder, it's not really designed for someone with schizophrenia. She should have been on Haldol or something equally potent.

BGG, Andrea was on Haldol, and it was d/c'd by Dr Saeed during her last hospital admission two weeks prior to the killings!!!:banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

 

[kato]

I've been on Effexor. While it's designed for severe depression or obessessive complusive disorder, it's not really designed for someone with schizophrenia. She should have been on Haldol or something equally potent.

I weaned myself off Effexor after experiencing very vivid and distrubing nightmares. I was a little off-kilter for a few days, which had to do more with shaking off the emotional numbing the medication was doing. Not all serotonin imbalances are genetic/permanent. If you get you serotonin balanced and your body is making it again in normal amounts, the medication will create an overdose effect (which can damage your ability to create serotonin naturally after awhile) and you start feeling emotionally numbed instead of feeling better and the horrific nightmares kick in. So, oddly, that's a sign of getting "better", at least physically.

As it is, the medication can only help you so far if you don't address the underlying cause for the depression. The medication only treats the symptopms, not the root cause for the depression. Depression is basically anger turned inward instead of expressed normally/naturally. The depression will continue to build/wprsen until one of three things happen
1) the patient gets help and/or addresses the root cause of the depression
2) the patient kills themselves rather than address the root cause of the depression
3) the patient's self preservation kicks in and they finally, at the latest possible stage, attack and/or kill what they perceive to be the cause of their misery in order to keep from killing themselves (whether they're conscious of that thought process or not).

Personally, I think she really wanted to kill Rusty, but she was too cowed/indoctrinated to try it. And I think she tried killing herself those times because she was trying to prevent what eventually happened, whether the victim(s) were the kids or Rusty or anyone else close to her.

I have that emotional numbing due to my Prozac. It's very hard for me to cry. I really didn't cry much when my GM (who I was very close to) died last year. But unlike you I'd rather have that than go back to my depression days. If I wouldn't have been on my meds. I would have gone into a downward spiral and I never want to go there again. Unfortunately, mine is genetic on both sides and my psychiatrist says I'll probably have to be on meds. the rest of my life which is alright with me.

Also about nightmares. I take Elavil at night and it says that very vivid dreams are a side effect. I suspect that's why I talk in my sleep alot.

 

[kato]

Defense rested. Jury sent home about an hour ago. Told to come back Monday and bring a bag.

 

[LinasK]

Defense rested. Jury sent home about an hour ago. Told to come back Monday and bring a bag.

??? What's the bag about? In case they have to barf?

 

[kato]

??? What's the bag about? In case they have to barf?

LOL No. In case they have to spend the night.

 

[TexMex]

Defense rested. Jury sent home about an hour ago. Told to come back Monday and bring a bag.

Hi kato

Closings are set for 9:30am Monday, each side has 2 hours.
CourtTV WILL be able to air closings but on a tape delayed basis.

 

[Anita Richman]

Has anyone heard anything about closing arguments yet today?

 

[Jeana (DP)]

Has anyone heard anything about closing arguments yet today?

Yes, the jury has the case:

3:29 PM Jurors began deliberating Monday in Andrea Yates' second murder trial to decide whether Yates knew that drowning her five children in the bathtub was wrong.


www.dallasnews.com

 

[Anita Richman]

Gosh, I don't envy any of those people on the jury. God help them decide the fair and just thing! (IMO, put her in a mental facility, forever. I also think Rusty should be incarcerated or at the very least neutered.)

 

[Clearly Confused]

Gosh, I don't envy any of those people on the jury. God help them decide the fair and just thing! (IMO, put her in a mental facility, forever. I also think Rusty should be incarcerated or at the very least neutered.)

Please forgive me because I do not think the subject matter of this case is funny but the neutered comment cracked me up.

 

[Wudge]

Well you'll believe what you want to believe, but her entire wiring is out of whack. If you've seen pictures of her and read about what she was like before the PPP began, its easy to see that she's an entirely different person. Mental illness can strike anyone at any time and there's no way to determine who is at risk. Being pregnant is very hard on a woman's system. Perhaps she is one of those women who should never have had children. Regardless, she was advised to STOP having them and because of her husband and her religeon, she continued against medical advice. If you have a disease, that disease must be treated. I'm not sure why you would think it should just go away on its own. Most of them do not. Infections, cancer, mental illness, etc. NEED to be treated. Her treatment was never completed and add to that the baby after baby after baby and what you're left with is a lunatic.

A voice told her to kill her kids. Nevertheless, according to Dr. Dietz (the State's moron psychiatrist), it was ok to find her guilty. His fallacious logic is believing that he (an allegedly sane person) can tell if an insane/delusional person had presence of mind to truly know right from wrong.

If they follow a voice, that says it all: Insane, not guilty.

 

[TexMex]

After listening to nearly a month's worth of exhaustive testimony, the jury of six men and six women began deliberating today, but recessed for the night without reaching a verdict. Their discussions followed four hours of emotional closing arguments, during which Yates broke down in tears and her former husband, Russell Yates, got up and abruptly left the courtroom.

Jurors deliberated for nearly three hours before a bailiff escorted them to a local hotel, where they were sequestered overnight.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/metropolitan/4067045

 

[NaNaRosebud]

If she TRULY loved her kids, she would GLADLY spend the rest of her life in jail to pay for what she did to them.


Her even trying to defend herself makes me sick to my stomach. She did it. Whether she was nutso or not makes no difference.

If she loved those kids like she says she did, so much so that she killed them in order to save them, then she would gladly serve her time.

She makes me want to puke!

 

[nanandjim]

I personally don't understand why she didn't take her own life after she murdered her children. Why didn't that play into the delusion??

ETA: I'm not saying that she isn't or wasn't extremely sick at the time. I don't know where she should be as I haven't followed the case close enough. I do know that I think that her husband was negligent, to say the least.

 

[Jeana (DP)]

I personally don't understand why she didn't take her own life after she murdered her children. Why didn't that play into the delusion??

ETA: I'm not saying that she isn't or wasn't extremely sick at the time. I don't know where she should be as I haven't followed the case close enough. I do know that I think that her husband was negligent, to say the least.

I don't know. They said that as her meds start working and she recalls what she's done, that she becomes suicidal. I don't know enough about mental illness to know how that works, but she'll be in a hospital for the rest of her life regardless of what the jury comes back with. Put me in a prison any day compared to a state run mental hospital. I'd rather die than end up there. Her attorneys are not fighting for her to be free, because they know that will never happen. The fight is for the law to recognize that post partum psychosis is a real disease and that it affects too many women. It needs to be looked at.

 

[Anita Richman]

I personally don't understand why she didn't take her own life after she murdered her children. Why didn't that play into the delusion??

ETA: I'm not saying that she isn't or wasn't extremely sick at the time. I don't know where she should be as I haven't followed the case close enough. I do know that I think that her husband was negligent, to say the least.

I believe she knew that the state of Texas would put her to death, and that was the only way to "kill" Satan inside of her.

When she is on the right meds, and becomes more mentally healthy, as Jeana said, THEN she becomes suicidal. What a terrible tragedy. I hate that it had to happen to those five beautiful babies, but at the same time, I am glad we are finally discussing post partum depression. It's about time!

 

[Jeana (DP)]

I believe she knew that the state of Texas would put her to death, and that was the only way to "kill" Satan inside of her.

When she is on the right meds, and becomes more mentally healthy, as Jeana said, THEN she becomes suicidal. What a terrible tragedy. I hate that it had to happen to those five beautiful babies, but at the same time, I am glad we are finally discussing post partum depression. It's about time!

AMEN. I'm all for legislation that would remove the children from the home. I'm sorry, but if the primary caregiver is hearing voices telling her to kill the kids, parents rights END there and then. What about the childrens' rights? Sure, its not mom's fault that she's a lunatic, but I think the kids' rights should then trump her right to be a parent. She can no longer take care of herself, so it reasons that she can no longer take care of them.