TX - Five Yates children drowned, Houston, 20 June 2001 *Insanity*

[Goody]

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Whether Andrea is found to be insane and spends the rest of her life in a mental hospital or prison~I really dont care.I could see an insane person murdering one child but 5? It didn't register? Yes I have been around people with mental problems.Her husband in my estimation is well responsible for part of their deaths.For all the nutty things she did at home~he went off to work and LEFT her alone? He should be right beside her!! As for the next tral~whatever unless he is called on to testify,thats it for him.He by divorcing her gave up his right to have anything to say about what they chose to do. He is now as much to her as you and I are.It boils me to know he is out walking around.Andrea should never be allowed out for the rest of her life.I'm sorry~maybe I am hard but it is the way I feel.Take care.

Rusty was probably in denial about her illness. Men have that denial thing going pretty strong in most relationships. They always seem to think that it will be better in the morning...or give it a few days, it will work out. So I dont really blame him. I did in the beginning but once some distance between me and the facts of the case was had, I could look at the mitigating factors a little clearer.

I've always had the feeling, insane or not, that she was striking back at Rusty for something. Can't explain why though. Not that it matters. She was clearly insane and will be her entire life.

 

[Goody]

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I also read Fairy Caroland in a mag a long time ago..Dont get angry but I think Andrea has company in the loose bolts department..LOL..

Rusty is from Nashville, not far from where I live. I thought he'd had a pretty normal upbringing, but the good reverend is his aunt. Surely she was not born with that name. LOL! If she took it on as an adult, it does make you wonder about those bolts you mentioned. hahahahahaha.

 

[Maybe So]

I can't say without getting banned! LOL Just kidding.

I don't think we should accept this as the gospel until we know more. While its certainly possible that its true, jail-house snitches aren't usually the most reliable people on the planet. I think we need to take a wait and see attitude and wait until the trial. Once she testifies, we'll be in a better position to decide whether we believe it or not.

I agree, I would like to know the other inmates motivations. Will she gain from her testimony or simply felt that what Andrea told her needed to be told to authorities?

I tend to believe it might be true simply because I don't think most people (even other inmates unless they stand to gain something substantial) are so callous as to make up lies just to persecute a complete stranger.

Even I who think Andrea is a murderer despite her mental illness would not make up lies about her in the hopes to see her get a more severe punishment. So, it makes me wonder more than ever....

 

[Maybe So]

However, if I am not wrong, he did drive home the idea that Rusty is the head and what he says goes. That is all and fine, however, if he is not leading our of love and in dictatorship only he is not doing God's will. We know he "ruled" the house. Andrea didn't get the proper care and in reality he failed her and his five kids. Where is Rusty today, free!!!

Sounds like he drove home a lot of distorted ideas, I agree completely. When I read about religions like that or religious leaders like that I truly wonder why anyone follows them at all. Who is so weak minded that they cannot see that what is being preached to them is twisted and distorted? Sometimes I just don't get it.

 

[Valinda]

Sounds like he drove home a lot of distorted ideas, I agree completely. When I read about religions like that or religious leaders like that I truly wonder why anyone follows them at all. Who is so weak minded that they cannot see that what is being preached to them is twisted and distorted? Sometimes I just don't get it.

Me either. It's hard to believe that there are people out there who are so damn naive.

 

[Janet'sPlanet]

Sorry, as twisted as his teachings are nowhere does it say that you will save your children's souls by taking the action of murdering them.

But it appears that for many people this case isn't about accepting responsibility but finding someone else to blame...accept the woman, Andrea Yates, who murdered her little children and in some horrible and completely rotten act, chased down the last one as he begged for his life and snuffed it out of him.

So you really think it matters that such ideas were neve taught? People don't care when they are seeking to blame others instead of the perpetrator. They will turn anything into someone else's fault. What a sick world we live in.

 

[Jeana (DP)]

If anyone here has a problem with a post, please use the "ALERT" button instead of taking these matters into your own hands. Thanks.

 

[Jean]

Plea deal in Andrea Yates' case rejected 2/27/06
http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?section=local&id=3938314

Andrea Yates' attorney has rejected an offer of 35 years in prison in exchange for a plea of guilty or no contest to a lesser charge of murder. More at link

 

[Adalena935]

I think she took great glee in telling Rusty what she did...sorta like.."Yeah, gotcha!"

Ah. Yes. "This is what I think of you and your seed." That was the msg Andrea sent to Rusty. Totally premeditated. She was depressed and wanted to be dead. Raised Roman Catholic she couldn't commit suicide and ask God's forgiveness after she took her own life. So, she devised a plan so horiffic as to force the state of Texas to execute her. It's in her confession. She told the cop the reason she killed her kids is to get the state to punish her.

That served multi-fold purpose for her. Her long held wish to be dead would be achieved. She could rid herself of rusty who I believe she may have hated. & been out from under his kids who burdened her to the core.

I believe it's possible for mental illness and evil to exist in the same person. I believe that's what Andrea Yates is. Evil & mentally ill (depression) at the same time.

I believe she was attempting "Suicide by forced State Execution". just as some depressed people foce the cops to shoot & kill them when they're depressed. Not uncommon phenomena.

She knew what she was doing. She was in touch with reality. Very much so. Her mental health records are well documented. they are extensive. Probably one of the most well-documented case in USA history. She was diagnosed "psychotic" TWO YEARS before she committed this crime. NOT - at the time of the commission of this crime. Legally it's her mindset at the time of the commission of the crime that's taken into consideration when determining legal analysis. That IS in juror instructions in every state in the union. At the time she killed her kids, she was depressed. not psychotic as most believe who discuss this case.

She was seen by her shrink within days of her crime. (day before? can't recall). She was not psychotic. only depressed. Reading her med records tells the truth. She never cooperated with her own care & the medical professionals knew that & called her on it many times. I used to have a link for her med records, but deleted all on this case when the trial ended. The 1st trial, that is.


http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/special/drownings/1266294

Transcript of Andrea Yates' confession Associated Press


MEHL: "..Did you want the criminal justice system to punish you ..

YATES: Yes. ..."

This is what I believe about her and I always will. I so agree with you,
Maybe So, Cal, kato, PrayersForMaura

She did it on purpose. She's evil and she's guilty of 1st degree premeditated diabolical murder. That's what the evidence shows.

 

[Adalena935]

But it appears that for many people this case isn't about accepting responsibility but finding someone else to blame...accept the woman, Andrea Yates, who murdered her little children and in some horrible and completely rotten act, chased down the last one as he begged for his life and snuffed it out of him.

So you really think it matters that such ideas were neve taught? People don't care when they are seeking to blame others instead of the perpetrator. They will turn anything into someone else's fault. What a sick world we live in.

To me the message is clear on this case. If the murderer is the woman who spawned and gave birth to the victims, society will excuse the murders. ie; the killing of her own children by the birth mother will be tolerated.

That to me is telling, chillingly so about the mindset of our society. To me that's as chilling as this crime itself, if not moreso.

I think Andrea Yates was attempting to commit "Suicide by Forced State Execution". A murder-suicide that went awry, really. Because the state didn't execute her. I think if she is depressed now, that's the only reason for it. Her plans to force the state to execute her didn't work out as she had hoped.

It's in her confession the day of the crimes.

http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/special/drownings/1266294



Transcript of Andrea Yates' confession Associated Press


MEHL: "..Did you want the criminal justice system to punish you ..

YATES: Yes. ..."

 

[Adalena935]

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I also read Fairy Caroland in a mag a long time ago..Dont get angry but I think Andrea has company in the loose bolts department..LOL..

It's in Andrea's medical records that one doc wrote that he believed the hubby (Rusty) to be more severely mentally ill than Andrea (the wife). who would wonder.

Which makes me wonder why so many people get down on Rusty and show him no compassion in the loose bolts dept.

Her med records are most certainly known facts in this case/trial. go figure.

Glaringly apparent in his lengthy deadpan interview following the crime he didn't have all his oars in the water. "I just want to get my family back together." (psst. rusty. the family is dead.) My hubby and I watched in awe with jaws agape. Wondering where he parked his space ship. At the time it could be attributed to shock. but no. rusty's been a goner for a long time.

those poor kids, ending up with those two for parents.

 

[Adalena935]

I'm new here, but i'm really old around the internet and i only found this site, but i would like to address this:


For one, drugs have nothing to do with abuse. An abuser in an abuser.

I believe this woman was perfectly sane when she commited these acts. If she had been insane than she would have snapped out of it by the time she chased her last child down to drown him.
Also just because people said she was a caring mom doesn't mean she was. Do people really go up to people and say "hey i just beat my kid today?" No because it's illegal.
I'm willing to bet these children were abused by this sick individual their entire lives and this day she murdered them.

I hope she drowns in a pile of vomit.

That's my :twocents:

Oh. Thank You! Who we are is who we are in the dark. Andrea yates wansn't a loving mom and a nice person. She was always an evil person devoid of love who was ACTING nice. It's well documented in her psych med records exactly how covert, capable and devious she was.

depressed. and evil. The two aren't automatically exclusive. I believe she was both. mean and depressed person.

I never saw a person have so much help as this woman did. It was she who wouldn't step up to the plate. She who refused to cooperate. It's documented in her med records.

 

[Adalena935]

There is much to read about this case, 2sisters. It can be overwhelming. I'm no expert in mental illness; however, I don't think Andrea could have controlled her own behavior any more than a cancer patient can control the spread of cancer. Here's a snippet into Andrea's life, but I would recommend that you try and read more.


Quotes About Marriage and Family:
Andrea, talking to the jail psychiatrist: "It was the seventh deadly sin. My children weren't righteous. They stumbled because I was evil. The way I was raising them they could never be saved. They were doomed to perish in the fires of hell."
Source: Time.com

Rusty: "I can't carry her through life. That's too great a burden to bear. I need her to walk on her own. I can hold her hand, but I can't carry her."
Source: Time.com


Andrea's Suicide Attempts: On June 17, 1999, Andrea tried to kill herself by taking an overdose of pills. She was released from the hospital on June 24, 1999 and prescribed an antidepressant. She was diagnosed with postpartum depression and psychosis. Not taking the medication, Andrea began self mulitation and had hallucinations. Although Rusty knew of her hallucinations, he didn't tell Andrea's psychiatrist.
On July 20, 1999, tried to knife herself. She was hospitalized in a catatonic state for 10 days.

I just wanted to point out that one legal problem the jury is faced with in this case is YOU DON'T GET TO SAY OH BUT I WAS PSYCHOTIC TWO YEARS BEFORE I DID THE CRIME.

She was examined by her shrink the day or two before the crimes. She was not psychotic at the time of the commission of the crime.

You don't get to change the law AFTER the fact.


That law is clearly stated in the juror instructions.

Hypothetical; I can't go shoot my neighbor tomorrow and claim I was scared of him 2 yrs ago. It won't fly. Not legally. And this is not just about andrea and mental illness. It's about murder. A very legal issue. 5 of them.

I haven't seen anyone address this legal perspective, so I thought I'd bring it up. She was psychotic in 1999. She didn't commit the crime until 2001. She was "depressed" at the time of the crime.

For the records, I don't think it matters very much what happens to her. Her kids are dead. What she did is so awful it will never be forgotten. It's so horriffic it rivals the sinking of the Titanic for heartwrenching disasters. Her life is over. She made sure her 5 helpless children's lives are over.

If anyone wants to save her, I wonder what for? She's useless. She's worse than that. She's a disgrace to the human race. At least the Titanic disaster was an accident. One day she will stand before Almighty God and give an accounting of herself. I'm confident and satisfied in that.

Personally it matters not to me if she walks free tomorrow, has a dozen more children and murders them as well. It won't change my life one iota. Any society that would allow a known diabolical murderer like her to ever reproduce or be free deserves what they get in my opinion. And it doesn't feel good to say that.

But, to me she is one of the most cunningly evil persons I have ever heard tell of. That is what I think of her. Personally. I always will.

This case has told me that society will tolerate/excuse/minimize murder IF the killer is the mother who spawned the humans she murders. That knowledge really chills me to the depths of my soul.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/special/drownings/1266294.html


MEHL: This is Sergeant Mehl. I'm with H.P.D. Homicide. The date is June 20th, 2001. It's 1:06 in the afternoon. I'm located in an interview room at 1200 Travis, within the homicide division. With me in the room is Andrea Yates, a white female, D.O.B. 7-2-64. Andrea, can you tell me your full and complete name?

 

[Adalena935]

Not according to her med records. No mention of homicidal thoughts or hallucinations dictating she murder her children.

Indeed, Socks! It's in her medical records the med professionals had her sign sworn statements many times that she would not harm herself or others.

She lied. She deceived. She tricked. She was covert. She was cunning. She planned. diabolically. The premeditated murder of her 5 children for this purpose; which she gleefully said AFTER her evil deeds were accomplished;
She is as evil as any mass-murderer to come into the human species.

It should be noted she did not ever pick on anyone HER OWN SIZE!

http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/special/drownings/1266294



Transcript of Andrea Yates' confession Associated Press


MEHL: "..Did you want the criminal justice system to punish you ..

YATES: Yes. ..."

 

[Adalena935]

You "hear the oldest one ran from her..." Andrea is the one that in monotone reported to the detectives how she killed each of her children. The tapes were released after her conviction-and I'm sure they will be after her next trial--listen to them. She was the one who told them that she had to chase him down. She was the one who had to tell them that when her son saw the baby floating in the bathtub "what happened to Mary". She was so mentally ill at the time she committed these horrible crimes that she thought she was "saving" her children. Yes she knew she had to do it after her husband left for work, yes she knew to call 911 after she had done what her sick, sick mind told her she had to do. She had reached a level of mental sickness that the majority of us (thankfully) will never ever be able to comprehend. This "cold-hearted murderer" when stabilized by her psychiatric medications will have to live with the memories of what she did to her beloved children - and yes-she did love them before sinking into her deepest abyss- for all the rest of her days. Her sickness could have happened to you or to me---but for the grace of God it could have been you or I and not for that reason alone I believe she deserves empathy. Hopefully the mental health field and the public at large will be able to learn from her and prevent such an awful tragedy from happening again. A cold hearted murderer she is not. For a definition of cold-hearted murder-take a look at Scott Peterson.

The reasons murderers murder doesn't make their victims any less dead.

Suicide by Forced State Execution - that's what Andrea Yates was about. She said so. In her confession.

http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/special/drownings/1266294



Transcript of Andrea Yates' confession Associated Press


MEHL: "..Did you want the criminal justice system to punish you ..

YATES: Yes. ..."

She wanted to be dead for a LONG time. Raised Roman Catholic, she couldn't commit suicide without burning in hell for eternity. Those beliefs are a part of her core personality. Impossible for it not to be. So she devised a plan to commit a crime SO bad as to force the state of Texas to execute her. I think the source of her depression now is because they didn't.

She's pure evil. She did it on purpose. One day she will stand before Almighty God and give an accounting of herself. She fooled a lot of people and continues to. She thought she'd trick God too by trying to force Texas to execute her. I don't think God's fooled.

I don't think jury #2 will be, either.

 

[OneLostGrl]

I believe it's possible for mental illness and evil to exist in the same person. I believe that's what Andrea Yates is. Evil & mentally ill (depression) at the same time.+

Let me open up this mentally ill person to you, ok?

Mental illness IS evil as far as we mentally ill are concerned. With all of the stigma attachted to mental illness, why do you think a person in their "right mind" would want such a label to follow them for the rest of their lives? Isn't life hard enough without adding that into the mix?

I am sorry to have to be the one to inform you that mental illness is not something we CHOOSE to be inflicted with. It happens *to* us, not *because* of us! Mental illness is a monster inside of us, much like the devil.

We are born sick! It is the only thing we have ever known -diagnosed or not-. It is not like an insect that you can simply swat off your shoulder. It is in-bred in us... like it or not *this is who you are*! These are battles we are forced into without any coping mechanisms... without much thought process at all! Our minds are so full of rot (sickness) that there is not much room for "normal thinking" and rationalization.

I am by no means excusing Andrea's actions, I am simply trying to portray the other side to this story. The side that makes NO sense because what was inside this womans mind made NO sense-- not to her; not to people like me (who are inflicted with severe mental illness) and certainly not to people like you (people who are NOT inflicted with severe mental illness).

Like Andrea, I have been physchotic, so much so that Doctors couldn't even diagnose it properly! (perhaps she didn't let the Doctors "see" how bad off she was because she kept hoping and praying she would get better-) BUT I also say this- Andrea has LOST her right to live in society! If I were to ever get that sick I would sure hope someone would make damned sure I could not enter back into society EVER!

Mental illness is real! Every mentally ill person directly effects 3 other people.. yes, Three!
Much like the stigma that is attached to gays- we did not choose to live this way! This happened to us! And all we can do is hope to G*D the people in our lives that love us will make sure we and the very same people that we love are safe.... safe from us!

It is a lonely, sad, scarey and angry, disease. And there is NO reason in this day and age that we should have to go it alone.

Right now it could be happening to your child... your loved one! OOOPS! Now you'd be one of us, huh?

Would you send YOUR mentally ill loved one to the death chamber? Would you think he/she was making it up? Would you take away your love when he/she needed it the most? Or would you have guilt because you "never saw it coming"? Would you blame yourself for not knowing the extent of your loved one's ailments because he/she never came to you... never poured her/his heart out to you about who and what they really are because they knew you wouldn't accept them if they told you...

 

[Mygirlsadie]

She needs the death penalty. I understand she is mentaly insane. She is also the type of insane that we don't need in our society. She is the face of evil in my opinion. No amount of therapy can help her and no drug can cure her. Get rid of her. I may sound harsh but for one second imagine in your own mind what those 5 little babies had to go through from their own mommy's hands?

 

[Jeana (DP)]

To me the message is clear on this case. If the murderer is the woman who spawned and gave birth to the victims, society will excuse the murders. ie; the killing of her own children by the birth mother will be tolerated.

I'd like for you to provide some examples of society excusing women who murder their own children please.

 

[Adalena935]

I'd like for you to provide some examples of society excusing women who murder their own children please.

I don't know how to provide examples of my opinion. But, I can try to make myself more clear.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adalena935

To me

the message is clear on this case. If the murderer is the woman who spawned and gave birth to the victims, society will excuse the murders. ie; the killing of her own children by the birth mother will be tolerated. "

TO ME is what I used to begin my statement. It means I THINK. THIS IS WHAT I PERSONALLY THINK. THIS IS MY PERSONAL OPINION.

In no way did I intend for you or anyone to misconstrue my opinion or what *I think* for gospel. or even truth, for that matter. I have no idea whether what I think is right, wrong or anywhere inbetween.
It's just what I think. and nothing more or less.

The reason I BEGAN my paragraph with that phrase is because I wanted it to be clearly known up front, in the beginning and to preface my statement with clarity. THIS IS ONLY MY OPINION ONLY.

I can tell you a part of what helped me formulate my personal opinion if you'd like for me to.

John wayne gacy tricked young boys into captive bondage for purpose of torture and sex and murder. then he burried them under his house. dozens of them. TO ME = that is extremely bizarre, unexplainable, sick, mentally ill behavior. Who could hope to understand that mind?

Richard Ramirez cut out his victim's eyeballs and ate them in front of them while they were STILL ALIVE! That is mentally ill TO ME. That is extremely sick and mentally ill behavior TO ME. (& I would venture to say in most reasonable person's estimation)

Gary Ridgeway went back to his victim's corpses many times over many months and masturbated onto their bodies. That is sick, mentally ill behavior TO ME.

Jeff Dahmer ate his victims. Slept with their skulls. sick. mentally ill. TO ME.

Ted Bundy returned to his victim's corpses over a period of months and had sex with their decayed bodies AFTER he bought and applied MAKE UP to them. That is extremely sick, mentally ill, bizarre behvior.

When I shockingly saw the outpouring of compassion for Andrea Yates (also a mass-murderer as all of the above) while it was SO completely lacking for the above mass-murderers I couldn't help but wonder why.

After much thought, consideration and observation on my part the only difference between she and the others named above is that she at one time carried her victims in her womb and gave physical birth to them.

I THINK that is the source of at least some of the outpouring of concern and compassion for A. Yates. I came to the conclusion PERSONALLY (NOT speaking for anyone else! NOT claiming to be RIGHT. okay? THIS IS JUST ONLY WHAT I PERSONALLY THINK. NOTHING MORE OR LESS)

I came to the conclusion that the jokingly repeated addage; "I brought you into this world & I can take you out." does indeed hold some truth.

that chilled, sickened and disgusted me concerning my fellow man. to a very great extent.

I'm not saying I'm RIGHT. I'm saying THIS IS WHAT I BELIEVE.

It's what I think.

I do think some people in society excuse the murder of live human beings, so long as the murderer is their own Mother.

It's what I think.

I cannot provide you with examples of what I think any better than that. I hope this helped to clarify to you what I meant when I paraphrased my paragraph/statement with "TO ME..."
the message is clear on this case.

I understand that some people may find my opinion extreme. It is nonetheless what *I think*

 

[Jeana (DP)]

You're well within your right to have those opinions; however, what I was trying to ascertain was information that proved this statement made by you:

Originally Posted by Adalena935
To me the message is clear on this case. If the murderer is the woman who spawned and gave birth to the victims, society will excuse the murders. ie; the killing of her own children by the birth mother will be tolerated.

The cases that you mention don't have anything to do with your statement.

If you believe the statement I quoted, please provide me with cases in which society excused the murderers simply because they were the mother of the victim(s). I actually think just the opposite is true and that society punishes them even more BECAUSE they are the mothers of the victims.

Can you provide me a list of cases wherein the mother was excused of the murder?