TX TX - Jason Landry, 21, enroute from TSU to home, car found crashed at Luling, 14 Dec 2020 #6

[Seattle1]

I'm wondering if that information was not known by the Landry's at the time of Jason's disappearance. They acknowledge that JL was not scheduled to arrive home until later so I think they are just putting two and two together and initially thought JL would come directly to their home from university.

I'm under the impression KL knew nothing at the time of the disappearance including that JL had even left San Marcos Sunday evening. I think KL learned more from JL's friends after the news broke. Also, I don't know if JL's Twitter still available but that's where I first learned that he was an avid gamer.

 

[SimplyCass]

Is it possible that JL dropped the phone before the crash? And being dropped on the floor caused it to turn off the Waze app. That it was JL rooting around on the floor looking for the phone that caused him to lose control of the vehicle and crash.

I've always worked off the assumption that something distracted JL and he dropped the phone and it slipped under the seat somewhere on the streets in Luling, which would explain why the Waze turned off and him missing the intersection to turn right.

However, that area of Luling is at least 5-10 minutes away from the crash site. It's an awful long time - too long, probably - to broadly support that idea - again, if we are assuming that something distracted him in the town.

 

[Friday Fan]

Is it possible that JL dropped the phone before the crash? And being dropped on the floor caused it to turn off the Waze app. That it was JL rooting around on the floor looking for the phone that caused him to lose control of the vehicle and crash.

I read that the digital footprint showed Waze switched to SnapChat or JL switched to SnapChat, which shut off the Waze app near downtown Luling.
His phone was found either beneath the seat or between the seats of his car, which implies that he dropped his phone.

This was only the second time that he had driven this route.

I know when going from one place to another, a little connecting town can often pose problems. You think it's gonna be real easy to get on the interstate, especially if you're from a big city, but sometimes little town connections have quirks. If you aren't "in-tune" to these quirks, it's very easy to get off course.

Then, he's on that awful Salt Flat Road. That is one scary road. I would freak out if I was lost there! Someone recently posted a video from there. The sound of those oil pumps is freak'n scary as heck. Rural people may not freak out about it, but I certainly do!

ETA: I would not be surprised if he did not have cell service out on Salt Flat Road. We do not have cell service when we stay at an Air B'n B a few miles west of Hunt Texas.

 

[LauraAnne]

I've read this whole thread since I haven't been here for a while. I agree with anyone who believes that a geofence warrant is out of the question since there is absolutely no evidence of foul play. It's concerning to me that some people would be okay with allowing LE to gather information on the downlow to skirt privacy laws. It makes me realize how fragile our rights are. Does the end justify the means?

IMO

RSBM

I don't understand this whole geofence warrant thing. It's no different - at all - than cameras that record your license plate as you drive down the street. It uses a different technology, but the result is exactly the same - it's a way, through technology, to learn who passed through a specific area at a specific time. And that's ALL a geofence warrant would tell you, just as that's ALL a license plate reader would tell you. Who was on this street, at a specific time. And you certainly don't need a warrant to record what goes on on a public street, and give it to LE or even share it on NextDoor Ap.

 

[8th Bob-White]

The Landry family has asked the Texas AG to take over the investigation.

Family of missing Texas State student asking Texas AG to take over investigation

Based upon what happened with Tom Brown's case after it got turned over the AG's office (nothing), I don't see that as positive

 

[LauraAnne]

Based upon what happened with Tom Brown's case after it got turned over the AG's office (nothing), I don't see that as positive

Well, nothing's being done about it now, so that won't change much. The police officer in the recent video makes it clear he thinks there was no foul play, and is urging everyone to search their properties for remains.

 

[branmuffin]

I've always worked off the assumption that something distracted JL and he dropped the phone and it slipped under the seat somewhere on the streets in Luling, which would explain why the Waze turned off and him missing the intersection to turn right.

However, that area of Luling is at least 5-10 minutes away from the crash site. It's an awful long time - too long, probably - to broadly support that idea - again, if we are assuming that something distracted him in the town.

Based on the map, he looked like he was less than 4 miles from Luling.

 

[SimplyCass]

RSBM

I don't understand this whole geofence warrant thing. It's no different - at all - than cameras that record your license plate as you drive down the street. It uses a different technology, but the result is exactly the same - it's a way, through technology, to learn who passed through a specific area at a specific time. And that's ALL a geofence warrant would tell you, just as that's ALL a license plate reader would tell you. Who was on this street, at a specific time. And you certainly don't need a warrant to record what goes on on a public street, and give it to LE or even share it on NextDoor Ap.

That's disputed/legal gray area. This Brennan Center article is a good summary about the current state of ALPR's (automated license plate readers). Generally, from how I understand this article, drivers do have a reasonable expectation to some privacy, and that searches/uses of cell phone and ALPR data should be as narrow and limited as possible. Some quotes from the article:

Carpenter v. U.S. (2018), which holds that police must get a warrant before they can obtain historical information from cell phone providers about the location of individuals’ mobile phones (known as cell-site location information, or CSLI)

While ALPR scans provide a different level of pinpoint accuracy than CSLI, they also indiscriminately collect data about every car that passes by a license plate reader, regardless of the driver’s connection to criminal activity. In fact, the vast majority of scans capture information about drivers who are not suspected of any wrongdoing.

And in Commonwealth v. McCarthy (2020), [...] the limited surveillance undertaken in that case did not violate the defendant’s reasonable expectation of privacy.

In that last case, the police had used four ALPR cameras over two bridges to track one defendant's movement over a limited period of time.

 

[5W's]

I think this brings clarity.

Jason was under the influence. Jason was overheating. Jason was actively associating drugs, psychedelics and awakening.

For me, this rules out foul play. Rules out conspiracies theories.

He crashed, he disrobed, he began walking. Following a path of enlightenment, made sense only to him, in the state he was in. He may have had edibles or other drugs so he was feeling no pain, no fear. He may have been running no less, traveling much farther than anyone imagined.

If only he could emerge now, having survived on berries, but sadly, I think he likely burrowed in somewhere, where he died, where his remains have gone undetected.

My heart goes out to his parents. Jason was not alone in his college drug use. He didn't get a chance to outgrow it.

JMO

Look I understand what you are saying but if something sinister did happen then it won't be found out. I think its a very valid concern on his family's part. Just because all of those things happened: hpothermia, head injury, hallucinations doesn't mean that he couldn't be a victim of someone as well. In fact its a possibility because he's in a confused state. Its easier to take advantage of someone who is not in their right state of mind. MOO. Like I said earlier simplifying and assuming isn't going to solve a case.

 

[5W's]

This story was, of course, provided by Fox7, the same news team who in 2020 provided us with the misleading "backpack filled with narcotics" headline and story, which is still up at their site (Backpack filled with narcotics found near missing man's car). My guess is that CCSO had at least the Facetime video information early on and that Fox7 forced the issue through a FOIA request or other avenue. Likewise, the body cam video had already been released in a few still shots. The Google search history information may have come more recently if it was from Jason's phone. I kind of agree with his father that there wasn't a compelling reason to release that.

But now that it's out there, it does point more strongly away from any third party 's involvement.


I don't think this is at all what was suggested. Ferry even said of his waypoints "it's pretty consistent travel". And this new info still doesn't answer how exactly he got to where his car was found. I think the best narrative is still that he dropped his phone under his seat in Luling, got lost, and crashed. MOO

Maybe I should clarify, the narrative to me suggested he wanted to get lost so he could go on a spiritual quest. But I have an issue with that becauase if that were the reason he wouldn't be using Waze to direct his trip. I don't disagree it was an accident but its what happened after the accident (like everyone else on Jason's thread) that concerns me in my mind. Its always easy to say ok this is what happened but there may be more to the story. MOO.

 

[Seattle1]

RSBM

I don't understand this whole geofence warrant thing. It's no different - at all - than cameras that record your license plate as you drive down the street. It uses a different technology, but the result is exactly the same - it's a way, through technology, to learn who passed through a specific area at a specific time. And that's ALL a geofence warrant would tell you, just as that's ALL a license plate reader would tell you. Who was on this street, at a specific time. And you certainly don't need a warrant to record what goes on on a public street, and give it to LE or even share it on NextDoor Ap.

^^bbm

I respectfully disagree that voluntarily driving on a road where license plate readers are situated or passing your neighbors home surveillance camera is anywhere comparable to information obtained by a geofence warrant -- more specifically cell site location information (CSLI).

In the SCOTUS landmark decision (Carpenter v. United States), the Court held that the government conducts a search under the Fourth Amendment and therefore, absent exigent circumstances, needs a warrant supported by probable cause when obtaining cell-site location information (CSLI)--i.e., records of the cell towers to which mobile devices connect.

Relying on prior case law holding that “individuals have a reasonable expectation of privacy in the whole of their physical movements,” the Court concluded that individuals have a reasonable expectation of privacy in certain CSLI records.

Mobile users do not voluntarily disclose CSLI to mobile carriers in the same ways that customers disclose records to other service providers. CSLI information is generated by virtually any mobile activity, “without any affirmative act on the part of the user beyond powering up.”

U.S. Supreme Court Holds that Historical Cell Site Location Data Is Subject to a Reasonable Expectation of Privacy | HL Chronicle of Data Protection

 

[5W's]

I think this brings clarity.

Jason was under the influence. Jason was overheating. Jason was actively associating drugs, psychedelics and awakening.

For me, this rules out foul play. Rules out conspiracies theories.

He crashed, he disrobed, he began walking. Following a path of enlightenment, made sense only to him, in the state he was in. He may have had edibles or other drugs so he was feeling no pain, no fear. He may have been running no less, traveling much farther than anyone imagined.

If only he could emerge now, having survived on berries, but sadly, I think he likely burrowed in somewhere, where he died, where his remains have gone undetected.

My heart goes out to his parents. Jason was not alone in his college drug use. He didn't get a chance to outgrow it.

JMO

Just because someone isn't feeling pain doesn't mean that their physical body is not falling apart. IMO that is a very dangerous assumption if that's what the intent is in the statement. If his physical body was falling apart as in hypothermia causing heart problems then he wouldn't have gotten far. MOO.

 

[cherrymeg]

Just because someone isn't feeling pain doesn't mean that their physical body is not falling apart. IMO that is a very dangerous assumption if that's what the intent is in the statement. If his physical body was falling apart as in hypothermia causing heart problems then he wouldn't have gotten far. MOO.

Head injuries can take time to reveal themselves. I just heard about this case so sorry if I ask a question that has already been answered. The clothes thing has me wondering was he exposed to the elements with no clothes on or could he have changed? And they were the clothes he was wearing? Is it normal for a rear window to break in a crash?

 

[darring21]

Look I understand what you are saying but if something sinister did happen then it won't be found out. I think its a very valid concern on his family's part. Just because all of those things happened: hpothermia, head injury, hallucinations doesn't mean that he couldn't be a victim of someone as well. In fact its a possibility because he's in a confused state. Its easier to take advantage of someone who is not in their right state of mind. MOO. Like I said earlier simplifying and assuming isn't going to solve a case.

This is the case with many unoccupied deaths. Some guy committed suicide by shooting himself... its possible that someone else shot him but the police investigate and find no evidence of it. Some woman drives off the road and dies... its possible that someone ran her off the road but police investigate and find no evidence of it. Not everything is an evil conspiracy.

 

[Megnut]

Just because someone isn't feeling pain doesn't mean that their physical body is not falling apart. IMO that is a very dangerous assumption if that's what the intent is in the statement. If his physical body was falling apart as in hypothermia causing heart problems then he wouldn't have gotten far. MOO.

I make no assumption. I just think it's possible that, if he was operating in an altered state, he may not have recognized danger, injury. He may have been running, spinning, imagining himself to be free, all the while -- as you suggest -- he was succumbing to hypothermia.

(I wonder, can a person be sweating profusely when it's really cold? Could that accelerate hypothermia? The question remains, how far away could he have gotten, before his state completely deteriorated?)

Devastating.

JMO

 

[Valiant]

Head injuries can take time to reveal themselves. I just heard about this case so sorry if I ask a question that has already been answered. The clothes thing has me wondering was he exposed to the elements with no clothes on or could he have changed? And they were the clothes he was wearing? Is it normal for a rear window to break in a crash?

It is normal and possible for any window in a car to break in a crash. It all depends on the point of impact. In this case, they've stated the first impact was at the rear of the car as it spun or slid sideways.

 

[LauraAnne]

^^bbm

I respectfully disagree that voluntarily driving on a road where license plate readers are situated or passing your neighbors home surveillance camera is anywhere comparable to information obtained by a geofence warrant -- more specifically cell site location information (CSLI).

In the SCOTUS landmark decision (Carpenter v. United States), the Court held that the government conducts a search under the Fourth Amendment and therefore, absent exigent circumstances, needs a warrant supported by probable cause when obtaining cell-site location information (CSLI)--i.e., records of the cell towers to which mobile devices connect.

Relying on prior case law holding that “individuals have a reasonable expectation of privacy in the whole of their physical movements,” the Court concluded that individuals have a reasonable expectation of privacy in certain CSLI records.

Mobile users do not voluntarily disclose CSLI to mobile carriers in the same ways that customers disclose records to other service providers. CSLI information is generated by virtually any mobile activity, “without any affirmative act on the part of the user beyond powering up.”

U.S. Supreme Court Holds that Historical Cell Site Location Data Is Subject to a Reasonable Expectation of Privacy | HL Chronicle of Data Protection

I know all that.

It still doesn't make a particle of sense to me.

If you can unknowingly be videotaped while out in public, and your license plate can, unbeknownst to you be recorded and known to LE investigating a possible criminal situation, it doesn't follow for me that you also can't unknowingly have your tech equipment's presence be recorded and used by LE. The two are the exact same thing, IMHO, regardless of any of this, and I'm hopeful that the AG will take over and get a geofence warrant on the area.

I'm not trying to pick a fight here. I do understand that courts have held that the presence of your cell phone is somehow private, whereas the presence of your facial likeness and car, and license plate hold no similar expectation of privacy. That just makes no sense.

You can be videotaped, and your clear image splashed across the national news, for leaving a bar a short time after a missing woman left the bar. I fail to understand how LE can't obtain the identity of tech items present when a person goes missing.

 

[Friday Fan]

Maybe I should clarify, the narrative to me suggested he wanted to get lost so he could go on a spiritual quest. But I have an issue with that becauase if that were the reason he wouldn't be using Waze to direct his trip. I don't disagree it was an accident but its what happened after the accident (like everyone else on Jason's thread) that concerns me in my mind. Its always easy to say ok this is what happened but there may be more to the story. MOO.

I think an Austin day spa would be a better spiritual quest than an old smelly oilfield
The only spiritual quest, I can see is that google maps is showing that this should be a Super Fund site...
I think we can rule spiritual quest out!

Just me being snarky......

 

[Seattle1]

I know all that.

It still doesn't make a particle of sense to me.

If you can unknowingly be videotaped while out in public, and your license plate can, unbeknownst to you be recorded and known to LE investigating a possible criminal situation, it doesn't follow for me that you also can't unknowingly have your tech equipment's presence be recorded and used by LE. The two are the exact same thing, IMHO, regardless of any of this, and I'm hopeful that the AG will take over and get a geofence warrant on the area.

I'm not trying to pick a fight here. I do understand that courts have held that the presence of your cell phone is somehow private, whereas the presence of your facial likeness and car, and license plate hold no similar expectation of privacy. That just makes no sense.

You can be videotaped, and your clear image splashed across the national news, for leaving a bar a short time after a missing woman left the bar. I fail to understand how LE can't obtain the identity of tech items present when a person goes missing.

Thanks for your reply @LauraAnne. While I was responding to OP's post specific to plate readers, I further understand your point. In my area, plate readers appear to be a bit more regulated such as posting where they're located and how the information is collected, used, retained (i.e., tolls, parking/red light enforcement, amber alerts, neighborhood HOA's, etc.). Admittedly, I'm a bit shocked that this is not true in a growing number of regions!

16.170 - Automatic License Plate Readers - Police Manual | seattle.gov
License plate scanners were supposed to bring peace of mind. Instead they tore the neighborhood apart.

 

[SimplyCass]

Head injuries can take time to reveal themselves. I just heard about this case so sorry if I ask a question that has already been answered. The clothes thing has me wondering was he exposed to the elements with no clothes on or could he have changed? And they were the clothes he was wearing? Is it normal for a rear window to break in a crash?

No worries, I'm glad to have someone else interesting in unwinding this mystery.

Jason had a backpack and a toiletry bag. The backpack had his PS4 and was pretty full. No laundry bag was found - it's presumed that he hadn't packed any other clothing.

A friend recorded a FaceTime call with Jason a couple of hours before he left in which he's wearing a red shirt - the same/similar one found near the crash site. So it's presumed that he was wearing it when he crashed.

His father found the clothes in the road when he first reached the crash site and recognized them as Jason's (the shirt was from the camp that Jason worked at as a counselor). In the John Lordan interview, he described it as a trail of clothing.

This is copied from a post I made previously on WS on June 21:

Lordan asked KL if the clothes were in one pile, if they could have been chucked out the window while driving. KL said: they were not in one pile, the watch was under his shirt, slides, socks, shorts, and underwear, all within a trail of less than than 100 yards. KL doesn't think they came from JL's bag, since it was so full of gaming equipment.