TX TX - Julie Moseley, 9, Mary Trlica, 17, Lisa Wilson, 14, Fort Worth, 23 Dec 1974 #7

[Chypre]

Anybody know if DA continued to dance after her 1st. marriage or was her long dancing career from Dallas to Houston ended a month and a half after the disappearance?

I can only ask another question. When did DA marry the lie detector expert? The marriage would have been a refuge from a very hot frying pan, regardless of guilt/innocence.

 

[Valiant]

It's been speculated on here that TT beat Rachel with his fists. That doesn't work.
1. He would've had defensive wounds from Rachel (unless she was restrained).
2. He wouldn't have been able to bowl that evening for two hours straight. His hands would've been swollen and bruised.

My thought is if it happened in a home or someplace public, it had to be a strangling and pretty much one at a time. No beatings, no gunshots. The mess would have been too much even for a transmission shop.

 

[FW_Froggy]

I can only ask another question. When did DA marry the lie detector expert? The marriage would have been a refuge from a very hot frying pan, regardless of guilt/innocence.

That was it she married him a month and a half after the disappearance.

 

[Brightchaser47]

regarding trafficking, I recently talked to an LEO who worked in the FBI task force, SWAT, and other areas of LE and I asked him specifically about trafficking. He said that in all of the cases of trafficking he has seen, the victims are groomed for periods of time and taken in gradually, not snatched.

It depends. I've heard of both.

The discussion made me think of this case and how the A family leaned in on trafficking.

I wonder now if that was a) James' idea, and/or b) someone's idea of "manufactured" or "shrouded evidence" (along with TT's alleged story that SM was at Minot).

I would love to know what the opinions of the current officers working the case are regarding that.

So would I, but I doubt we're going to find out. I think certain individuals' behavior through the years has destroyed any possibility of that.

 

[Brightchaser47]

Deleted by me-DP

 

[Brightchaser47]

In order for TT to kill Rachel (at home) in an argument over CJG that escalated, we have to assume the following:
1. He had to know about the party incident (who told him? CA?), and/or
2. She was seen with CJG at the mall that day (who told him that? DA was home all day; TT was allegedly at work)
If the girls were killed shortly after coming back from the Mall, either TT
* was home already, and one of the girls "slipped" and "tattled", and things went South
* was at work, the girls came to the house, one of them "slipped", DA secretly phoned TT at the shop (this is where phone records would be mighty helpful), he closed up early (was anyone else working that day?), rushed home, confronted and killed his wife (all of which would've taken a bit of time)...
Also, (like many others) I've wondered why Rachel would come back to the house after the Mall, and not drop off the other two. She would indeed be back-tracking, to take them home, at that point. But, it was still fairly early, and a Verified Insider shared on a podcast that Rachel was known to invite her friends over to her nice, new digs, when she got married.

 

[Brightchaser47]

At this point, I don't think that the bodies went into an incinerator or  legal landfill. I tend to agree with the idea that the incinerator would be risky. Too many chances of someone seeing something, or something going wrong. Same with a legal landfill.
However, an  illegal dump site is a possibility, if TT (or CA) knew about them. There are records of such places existing.
Benbrook Lake is still a possibility, as a disposal site. It's close, deep, and murky. I do  not think we're looking for a missing vehicle, though. The logistics don't work out (IMO). My question here is, does the layout of Benbrook Lake allow for the bodies to be disposed of in broad daylight, without being seen?

 

[FW_Froggy]

At this point, I don't think that the bodies went into an incinerator or  legal landfill. I tend to agree with the idea that the incinerator would be risky. Too many chances of someone seeing something, or something going wrong. Same with a legal landfill.
However, an  illegal dump site is a possibility, if TT (or CA) knew about them. There are records of such places existing.
Benbrook Lake is still a possibility, as a disposal site. It's close, deep, and murky. I do  not think we're looking for a missing vehicle, though. The logistics don't work out (IMO). My question here is, does the layout of Benbrook Lake allow for the bodies to be disposed of in broad daylight, without being seen?

IMO they are either cremated or buried on a relatives land.

 

[Brightchaser47]

IMO they are either cremated

How would they have gotten there, and what exactly was the procedure, at the incinerator?

or buried on a relatives land.

If they were buried in East Texas, we're talking CA and/or his brother disposed of the bodies. IMO, TT did not have time to travel very far, in the time slots he would've had to do so. He was bowling 6:30-8:30 that evening, and  supposedly home in the wee hours, babysitting the phone (possibly with DA), till "the letter" arrived the next morning. Is it verified that he  was home babysitting the phone that night?

 

[Brightchaser47]

If TT  was responsible for the deaths of Rachel, Renee, and Julie, I've often wondered whether he showed up for bowling to
1. Keep up appearances, give himself a partial alibi
2. Calm his nerves
3. Give someone else time to remove bodies from his house (if this, CA's brother could be involved)
4. All the above

 

[jetsfanjohn]

IMO they are either cremated or buried on a relatives land.

Would that not involve TT/CA collaboration in the three girls disappearance ? I am not sure how the mechanics of that would work ?

 

[FW_Froggy]

Would that not involve TT/CA collaboration in the three girls disappearance ? I am not sure how the mechanics of that would work ?

I'm just thinking after 48 years those are the only two logical solutions for me. If cremated the bodies will never be found and this will never be solved. If Buried there is a chance it could be solved but after 48 years I think they would have to be buried on relatives land or something would of popped up by now. To me there is nothing closer than family and the A family was very close. According to DA's daughter DA is bringing dancers to the shop for CA to have sex with now that's close. The more I learn and the fact TT passed 3 lie detector tests I'm not so sure TT is as involved as a lot of people think. There are a 100 rabbit holes but it seems like it always comes back to TT and DA somehow.

 

[jetsfanjohn]

I'm just thinking after 48 years those are the only two logical solutions for me. If cremated the bodies will never be found and this will never be solved. If Buried there is a chance it could be solved but after 48 years I think they would have to be buried on relatives land or something would of popped up by now. To me there is nothing closer than family and the A family was very close. According to DA's daughter DA is bringing dancers to the shop for CA to have sex with now that's close. The more I learn and the fact TT passed 3 lie detector tests I'm not so sure TT is as involved as a lot of people think. There are a 100 rabbit holes but it seems like it always comes back to TT and DA somehow.

I dunno...I'm not convinced of his (CA"s) involvement. If all three were murdered,
I can't really think of a reason why he would want to kill not only Rachel but two friends/witnesses, also. Unless, Rachel was threatening to 'spill' a family secret or something along those lines?

If he was involved, what was so urgent to him that Rachel and two other people had to be killed on that particular day ?

Also, I don't know where he 'fits in' with regard to the 'Runaway' Letter. I don't think he has been considered as a possible author of it.

 

[Pricklykitty]

I dunno...I'm not convinced of his (CA"s) involvement. If all three were murdered,
I can't really think of a reason why he would want to kill not only Rachel but two friends/witnesses, also. Unless, Rachel was threatening to 'spill' a family secret or something along those lines?

If he was involved, what was so urgent to him that Rachel and two other people had to be killed on that particular day ?

Also, I don't know where he 'fits in' with regard to the 'Runaway' Letter. I don't think he has been considered as a possible author of it.

Thing is I don't understand why anyone connected to any of the girls had to kill all 3 that particular day when they were together unexpectedly. Unless one was an accident, and the others killed as witnesses, but if thats the case theres nothing to say it couldn't be CA, DA, FA etc as easily as TT. Or anyone else of course but just talking in terms of the A family right now.

With the letter we are told that TT found it, and DA took it to her parents, but Im yet to be convinced thats the truth. If the letter was part of the cover story by those involved, then who knows who suggested writing it. Even if TT did write it, theres nothing saying it wasn't suggested to him by CA or anyone else.

Im not sure of his involvement, but CA is someone I struggle to exclude from any involvement.

 

[jetsfanjohn]

Thing is I don't understand why anyone connected to any of the girls had to kill all 3 that particular day when they were together unexpectedly. Unless one was an accident, and the others killed as witnesses, but if thats the case theres nothing to say it couldn't be CA, DA, FA etc as easily as TT. Or anyone else of course but just talking in terms of the A family right now.

With the letter we are told that TT found it, and DA took it to her parents, but Im yet to be convinced thats the truth. If the letter was part of the cover story by those involved, then who knows who suggested writing it. Even if TT did write it, theres nothing saying it wasn't suggested to him by CA or anyone else.

Im not sure of his involvement, but CA is someone I struggle to exclude from any involvement.

You make some good points there Pricklykitty, but if it was, for example, CA who was responsible where did the killings take place ? Some people have him at home all day, others have him at the shop all day. Could he be the person 'they knew and trusted' at the Mall ? That scenario just seems a bit unlikely to me.

Others would have to be involved also. CA and TT collaborating in the killing doesn't make any sense to me. What would their joint motive be ?

 

[T rex]

I dunno...I'm not convinced of his (CA"s) involvement. If all three were murdered,
I can't really think of a reason why he would want to kill not only Rachel but two friends/witnesses, also. Unless, Rachel was threatening to 'spill' a family secret or something along those lines?

If he was involved, what was so urgent to him that Rachel and two other people had to be killed on that particular day ?

Also, I don't know where he 'fits in' with regard to the 'Runaway' Letter. I don't think he has been considered as a possible author of it.

Thing is I don't understand why anyone connected to any of the girls had to kill all 3 that particular day when they were together unexpectedly. Unless one was an accident, and the others killed as witnesses, but if thats the case theres nothing to say it couldn't be CA, DA, FA etc as easily as TT. Or anyone else of course but just talking in terms of the A family right now.

With the letter we are told that TT found it, and DA took it to her parents, but Im yet to be convinced thats the truth. If the letter was part of the cover story by those involved, then who knows who suggested writing it. Even if TT did write it, theres nothing saying it wasn't suggested to him by CA or anyone else.

Im not sure of his involvement, but CA is someone I struggle to exclude from any involvement.

It could work several different ways but there is a scenario that could fit this line of thinking. One is if Rachel did indeed write the letter but didn't place it in the mail but left it at home to be found. DA then finds it and tells someone of Rachels plans. This someone decides they can't allow this to happen and intercepts her at the mall or has another person do it. Or DA has planned to go with Rachel but backs out and throws her under the bus. If this was the case then who wrote the letter is up for grabs. On the other hand it didn't have to happen this spontaneously. If it was more planned out then I think Renee could have been almost as much of a target as Rachel simply because of what information Rachel may have shared with her.

 

[Brightchaser47]

I dunno...I'm not convinced of his (CA"s) involvement. If all three were murdered,
Unless, Rachel was threatening to 'spill' a family secret or something along those lines?

If he was involved, what was so urgent to him that Rachel and two other people had to be killed on that particular day ?

If we're to believe DJ and DA's daughter, maybe DA  was bringing dancers to the shop (on the sly), and somebody was underage. Somehow Rachel found out (maybe TT was partaking, also), threatened to either leave TT or turn them in. What would the penalty have been for sex with minor(s)? CA had cancer, and TT had an inheritance. Neither of them would've wanted to go to jail.

 

[beubeubeu]

I dunno...I'm not convinced of his (CA"s) involvement. If all three were murdered,
I can't really think of a reason why he would want to kill not only Rachel but two friends/witnesses, also. Unless, Rachel was threatening to 'spill' a family secret or something along those lines?

It's not hard to come up with some reasons suitable for any scenario, but pretty hard with reason that's "good enough"... at least for me.
With one victim, it could theoretically take one hit, one push, one accidental "something" that wasn't meant to be lethal but ended up killing the person. With three there just had to be some sort of conscious decision to go for it, with confidence that double (or triple, if after some sort of escalation or accident one was just injured) murder is better solution than any alterative option.

Going with most popular "TT did it in the jealous rage".
With accident or manslaughter - what was on the table for him if he called cops or drove her to hospital telling straight how it happened and that he's sorry about it?
Any serious sentence? Lost of his inheritance? Lost of the parental rights?
If not any reason for him to expect any of that to happen?

What kind of family or really any mystery could Rachel potentially reveal to pose such a threat to her father that he could possibly figure that he has no other choice than to murder her and two local kids?
Any indicators that Rachel would be willing to expose something that could her struggling family into more trouble? Why would she do that? Why would her father believe that she could do that?

I can't see how any cheating or family secret related secret could pose such a threat to TT or CA that they'd choose triple murder to prevent it from being revealed.

All these stories about CA and TT being sketchy, creepy, sexual offenders and so on... getting away with it all the time - if anything they're painting a picture of inividuals that would be actually LESS likely to go for such extremes (as murder) out of fear of being caught.
Cause it's not what people do, whats happening is that more their despicable actions are going unpunished, less they fear consequences.

It doesn't make any sense for me UNLESS there were other significant factors that we don't know about, that would change this dynamic completely.

 

[beubeubeu]

If we're to believe DJ and DA's daughter, maybe DA  was bringing dancers to the shop (on the sly), and somebody was underage. Somehow Rachel found out (maybe TT was partaking, also), threatened to either leave TT or turn them in. What would the penalty have been for sex with minor(s)? CA had cancer, and TT had an inheritance. Neither of them would've wanted to go to jail.

I can't see how she could cause them any trouble with it, unless we're talking something like Rachel and Renee whitnessing Julie being assaulted, and they're both going straight with screaming that they're going to tell cops and Renee's dad. Only something like that could work as serious threat. Cause two sets of parents (Julie's and Renee's) believing their kids + Rachel being older, confirming their story... Then yeah, that may potentially lead to some jail time. Cause with Julie being so young they may not bend to any sort of threat or blackmail to keep their mouth shut or being tricked into believing that they won't be believed.

With the dancers... if that was true that DA was indeed bringing these dancers there for that reason (sounds bizarre to me, not only with obvious reasons but also with some doubts about logistics that I have), if they were going there willingly, why would they testify? That would likely cause them more trouble than CA. Even if somehow forced to have sex with him or getting literally tricked to get there and assaulted, it would still harm them more than CA.
With that story about Rachel getting inappropriate with CJG CA had leverage over Rachel, huge one, if Renee's dad would confirm it, then any claim from Rachel would be dismissed.

Don't forget that local LE had multiple murdered young women being dropped all around Forth Worth, with Carla Walker's case being HUGE at the time. They got raped and beaten up woman showing up, reporting it, telling them about attempted murder and her rapist bragging about murdering two women recently and dumping them near Benbrook - and saying that she saw him, that she's willing to testify, and try to identify him.
Yet they did nothing about it, they werent interested. If that was the reality then people living it had to be somewhat aware.
So how could both (Rachel and CA) end up confident that sexual assault allegations would matter?

 

[Brightchaser47]

At this point, the only reason I can think of for TT to write the letter ( if he wrote it), was to get the Olds back. Buying time for "cleanup" is making less sense to me. If we assume the girls met their deaths that afternoon (regardless of  how they died), the letter wasn't needed. Everyone (well, most everyone) was focused on the mall, and the car in the parking lot, and telephones in houses that night. To my knowledge, absolutely no houses or the transmission shop got searched that night. So, TT wrote the letter to retrieve a car that he would trade for a truck a few months later?