TX - Margaret Schlosser, 10 mos, arms cut off, dies, Plano, 22 Nov 2004 *Insanity*

[Opie]

I just found this thread. BeeBee said it! Will the judge be held responsible for whatever happens to those poor children? If their so-called religious leader feels that women have "jezebel" tendencies, what on earth will happen to that daughter when she becomes a teenager? Will her father beat her with a wooden spoon too? Or worse? Where, oh where is common sense? Aaarrrrgghh. As in the Yates case, there is plenty of blame to go around, and I don't think all of it should rest on someone with a form of mental problem such as postpartum depression/psychosis, etc.

 

[WasBlind]

I couldn't find the original thread:
...

Original thread

 

[Goody]

It would seem that post-partum depression (psychosis?) and self-proclaimed prophets don't mix too well.

Post partum depression and post partum psychosis are two very different illnesses. It appears this woman definitely had the latter.

 

[Jeana (DP)]

Post partum depression and post partum psychosis are two very different illnesses. It appears this woman definitely had the latter.

I agree Goody! I was just thinking that maybe if a woman started with "depression" and had the "false minister" influence as well, maybe help wasn't sought soon enough or thoroughly enough and it turns into a full blown psychosis. It may be that help could have prevented these murders, but wasn't received in time or for long enough, because of the influence of these so-called "ministers." Its horribly sad. Now, these little girls are going to grow up with a father invoved with a "minister" who thinks that women are all "jezebels." How soon before he convinces this father that they too, are "jezebels." How soon before this father starts to sexually abuse them??

 

[Jeana (DP)]

A jury deliberated for about nine minutes this afternoon before determining that a Plano mother accused of cutting off her baby's arms and killing her is not mentally capable of standing trial. Paperwork committing Dena Schlosser, 36, to Vernon State Hospital for 120 days is expected to be filed Tuesday. Mrs. Schlosser will remain at the hospital until it is determined she is competent to stand trial for killing her 10-month-old daughter in November.


www.dallasnews.com

 

[concernedperson]

Thanks for the info, Jeana. Now she can be incarcerated At Vernon with Deanna Laney. Another "depressive" type who killed two of her children and maimed a third.

BTW, a minister played a big part in this family as well.

 

[LovelyPigeon]

She is bipolar and suffers from both depression and psychosis. She's not likely to ever again see the light of day outside a mental facility.

Woman accused of severing baby's arms not competent for trial
Associated Press

McKINNEY — A woman diagnosed with bipolar disorder and depression after cutting off her baby's arms is not competent to stand trial on a murder charge, a jury ruled today.

--->>

Schlosser had been hospitalized for postpartum depression in January as part of a Child Protective Services neglect investigation. CPS officials have said Schlosser exhibited symptoms of psychosis but said she improved with medication and psychiatric help.--->>
http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/metropolitan/3039366

 

[Goody]

I agree Goody! I was just thinking that maybe if a woman started with "depression" and had the "false minister" influence as well, maybe help wasn't sought soon enough or thoroughly enough and it turns into a full blown psychosis. It may be that help could have prevented these murders, but wasn't received in time or for long enough, because of the influence of these so-called "ministers." Its horribly sad. Now, these little girls are going to grow up with a father invoved with a "minister" who thinks that women are all "jezebels." How soon before he convinces this father that they too, are "jezebels." How soon before this father starts to sexually abuse them??

I am not sure that depression can turn into psychosis. That is not to say that women with a psychosis might not have first experienced depression. Do you know what I mean?

Obviously a psychosis mixed with weird religious views can push someone over the edge into violence or self destruction. I don't know how much damage extreme views can cause to someone suffering from depression, though I am guessing that seriousl harm could also be born out of that. That wouldn't necessarily make the person "insane" though, maybe just misguided.

How did we get to the father sexually abusing the children? Am I missing something? Or is this the next step you see happening where extreme religious views are screwing with a man's head?

 

[JazzyB]

I think it's time some of these husbands started seeing the world through those prison bars. Like Rusty Yates, this man had as much to do with this womans break as the post partum psychosis or the church. Probably one of those men, strutting around like roosters, letting the wife know he was the boss. Then, when something bad happens, well....he was just a God Fearing Christian trying his best. Yeah, right. Somebody string him up!

And I thought I was the only one who thought like this. I've said all along that I think Rusty should share in some of this blame and punishment. At one time in their lives, he "kept" her, living in an RV, with all those children, home-schooled, no outside contact, no more nursing career, no hobbies...no WONDER she flipped out. And WHY would ANYONE leave a sick, unstable person alone with four small children?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

As far as being a "Gd fearing Christian" goes...ol' Rusty didn't find religion until AFTER the deaths of those 4 kids. And the local church down the street jumped at the chance to console him, plan and host the funeral, and make sure that Rusty GOT SAVED, by their definition. I believe they even take some sort of saintly pride in their newest member. IMO

How do I know all this? CUZ I LIVE REAL CLOSE BY.

Sorry, but I get PO'd everytime I think about this common-senseless crime.:furious:

 

[Jeana (DP)]

I am not sure that depression can turn into psychosis. That is not to say that women with a psychosis might not have first experienced depression. Do you know what I mean?

Goody, check out this link:

In some cases, PPD may be so severe that it becomes puerperal (post-partum) psychosis (PP). PP affects anywhere from 1-3% of mothers, or one in every thousand births. According to some statistics 70% of mothers who experience puerperal psychosis will have shown no prior signs of mental illness. The defining factor of PP is that the patient suffers a break with reality and becomes delusional. She may show signs of PPD, but also have feelings of suspicion and distrust of the people around her. She may also begin to believe that there is something "wrong" with her child(ren).

Puerperal psychosis is also characterized by:


manic symptoms, such as excitement or elation
overactivity
anger or agression
severe depression (sometimes combined with manic episodes)
hallucinations (visual and/or auditory)
delusions
paranoia
Puerperal psychosis can begin anywhere from 6 weeks to 6 months after giving birth. There have been very few studies on PP, but preliminary studies seem to indicate that if a mother has suffered from it during one pregnancy there is a 20-25% chance she may suffer from it in subsequent pregnancies. There also seems to be a a 50% risk that an affected woman will suffer a non-puerperal (non childbirth related) psychotic episode. There is a study underway to see if there may be a genetic cause for PP. In rare cases, PP can be brought on when a woman stops breastfeeding.

http://suicideandmentalhealthassociationinternational.org/innewsppd.html

 

[jannuncutt]

And I thought I was the only one who thought like this. I've said all along that I think Rusty should share in some of this blame and punishment. At one time in their lives, he "kept" her, living in an RV, with all those children, home-schooled, no outside contact, no more nursing career, no hobbies...no WONDER she flipped out. And WHY would ANYONE leave a sick, unstable person alone with four small children?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

As far as being a "Gd fearing Christian" goes...ol' Rusty didn't find religion until AFTER the deaths of those 4 kids. And the local church down the street jumped at the chance to console him, plan and host the funeral, and make sure that Rusty GOT SAVED, by their definition. I believe they even take some sort of saintly pride in their newest member. IMO

How do I know all this? CUZ I LIVE REAL CLOSE BY.

Sorry, but I get PO'd everytime I think about this common-senseless crime.:furious:

Thank you, thank you, thank you!!!!!!!!!! I totally agree! I think that Rusty Yates is a rotten human being.

 

[Kaly]

Oh yes, and you can bet he is dating plenty of ladies in the new church he is going to! Hey, maybe if he would have allowed Andrea OUT OF THE HOUSE once in a while to go to church she wouldn't have gone crazy!

You live nearby their old home? Andrea is a pen pal of mine.

 

[Jeana (DP)]

Schlosser found competent to stand trial

DALLAS — A woman accused of killing her 10-month-old daughter by cutting off her arms was found mentally competent to stand trial on capital murder charges, her attorney's office said Tuesday.

* * *
Dena Schlosser Schlosser, 36, was charged with capital murder in November after she told a 911 operator she had severed baby Margaret's arms. Police found Schlosser in the living room, covered in blood, still holding a knife and listening to a church hymn. She was later diagnosed with manic depression.

Donna Haynes, a legal assistant for defense attorney David Haynes, said a doctor at the state hospital sent the judge a letter Thursday saying she was now ready to stand trial. She said their office received a copy of the letter Monday.

The Collin County District Attorney's Office did not immediately return a telephone call seeking comment.

Schlosser will be moved from the state hospital to the Collin County Jail within the next 10 days to help her attorney prepare her case, Donna Haynes said.

Dr. David Self, a court-appointed psychiatrist, testified in February that Schlosser told him she wouldn't be bothered if she were convicted and sentenced to death.

He testified that medication seemed to have helped with psychotic symptoms, such as hallucinations and delusions, but her depression had “grossly worsened” in the two months since he first saw her.

* * *


http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcon...s/stories/052405dnlocschlosser.2a75b1459.html

 

[Jeana (DP)]

McKINNEY - Jury selection for the capital murder trial of the Plano mother accused of cutting off her daughter's arms is set for Feb. 13. Testimony will begin after a jury is selected.


Dena Schlosser Dena Schlosser appeared before State District Judge Chris Oldner Thursday morning for a brief hearing. It was her first court appearance since a jury found her incompetent to stand trial in February. She has since been found competent by doctors.

Ms. Schlosser was charged with death of 10-month-old Margaret "Maggie" Schlosser last November. Ms. Schlosser's attorneys plan to use insanity as a defense.

Prosecutors are not seeking the death penalty.

www.dallasnews.com

 

[concernedperson]

So, in this case there is evidence of insanity? No death penalty indicates this to me. Of course the crime indicates an especially brutal crime. Where are the people surrounding these killers?

 

[Opie]

Admittedly, I have not read all the links, but is there any update as to how the children are doing with their male parent (too difficult to call him their father)? Heaven help them!

 

[BillyGoatGruff]

Seriously, he got it from this guy:

Dena Schlosser's family said she was obsessed with Water of Life Church and its charismatic minister, Doyle Davidson. Mr. Davidson, a self-proclaimed prophet, preaches that women have "jezebel spirit" and must submit to their husbands.

Me again: I don't mean to be flippant about this, but what kind of people are sucked in by these phony "ministers"????? Don't they have ANY common sense???

Don't you know that you don't use your brain to think about your religion? :waitasec:

 

[concernedperson]

Don't you know that you don't use your brain to think about your religion? :waitasec:

Or something. I can't get around the brutality. Someone somewhere knows this. This is my huge problem with these crimes. They know and don't do anything to interject.

 

[Floh]

I stand all amazed that the judge ruled the children -- daughters -- should stay with their father. who would seem to agree all women were jezabels as he followed the crazy 'minister'.

what will their sorry lives be like for them?

what kind of a man is the judge to do such a thing?

 

[Jeana (DP)]

So, in this case there is evidence of insanity? No death penalty indicates this to me. Of course the crime indicates an especially brutal crime. Where are the people surrounding these killers?

Yes there is. She apparently had, I think, postpartum depression. Her husband was a religious nut as well.