TX - pregnant wife unresponsive on life support, husband hopes to fulfill her wishes

[jjenny]

I think that if that's the law the hospital is saying requires them to do what they are doing, they should and will lose since the mother is no longer a patient. Imo, the issue is whether the state can de facto terminate a pregnancy where the mother is dead but the baby can possibly be kept alive. Or whether that is, in fact, the termination of a "pregnancy." On an individual rights basis, imo, the question is whether, if the mother's wishes wrt to the baby are unknown or are consistent with wanting to sustain the baby, must or can the hospital assume that she would have wanted her body to be removed from mechanical support and act accordingly.

Now that it's in court, I wonder whether the hospital will stick to the pregnanat patient statute or will change its tack to address the broader issues. jmo

She is in the hospital bed, attached to a ventillator and requiring lots of care. I am sure all of it is costing a pretty penny. Sounds like a patient to me.

 

[jjenny]

Thank you VERY MUCH! I had no idea any of them were medical professionals. Wonder if any of the Republicans can be persuaded to listen to reason?

I swore I wasn't going to look at this thread again every day, but here I am. This entire situation is so very disturbing.

While I'm here I want to say one other thing. I've noticed that several people have said that they would want everything possible done to bring their fetus to term if they were in this exact situation. I respect your decision & would be appalled if the law required you to be withdrawn from life support against your wishes. For me, the problem is the law dictating the personal beliefs & rights of ANY individual.

The wishes things sounds a little bit bogus to me, considering that if someone wrote they want to be on life support forever and ever, hospital wouldn't have to honor that if that person ended up brain dead.
Right now hospitals can turn off life support from brain dead persons regardless of what family wants, or brain dead person wanted. So if you want to be on life support forever and ever (and some people or families do, just look at McMath case) that will not be honored. So why should it be honored the other way around?

 

[Elley Mae]

snipped,
she has been kept on life support despite her directive and her family’s wishes.

Wednesday, Jan 8, 2014

http://www.salon.com/2014/01/08/fam...texas_woman_forced_to_remain_on_life_support/

“If she is dead, I don’t see how she can be a patient, and I don’t see how we can be talking about treatment options for her,” said Thomas W. Mayo, an expert on health care law and bioethics at the Southern Methodist University law school in Dallas.



bbm, Did I miss this, she did have a directive?

 

[jjenny]

snipped,
she has been kept on life support despite her directive and her family’s wishes.

Wednesday, Jan 8, 2014

http://www.salon.com/2014/01/08/fam...texas_woman_forced_to_remain_on_life_support/

“If she is dead, I don’t see how she can be a patient, and I don’t see how we can be talking about treatment options for her,” said Thomas W. Mayo, an expert on health care law and bioethics at the Southern Methodist University law school in Dallas.



bbm, Did I miss this, she did have a directive?

She didn't have a directive. But we all know how press is nowdays. And salon is not even considered msm, I presume. They talk about NYT article, but if you read the actual article, it doesn't say she left a written directive.

 

[EmmaliLucia]

You are making it sound as if dead people should have the same rights as the alive ones. What rights do dead people normally have?

There's a few laws in place about abuse of a corpse... Laws that I do feel are being broken here.

 

[jjenny]

There's a few laws in place about abuse of a corpse... Laws that I do feel are being broken here.

In reality there is very little difference between caring for someone in a coma and someone being brain dead.
Neither body is actually the same as a corpse. It's just that we, in our ultimate wisdom, decided that being brain dead is the same as being dead.
But the body isn't actually dead as long as the heart is beating.
A corpse can not carry a pregnancy.
Brain dead perosn attached to a ventillator can.

 

[Elainera]

To me it's a grey zone. She isn't a corpse, she isn't alive either because she is not breathing on her own and the person is no longer in the body. Maybe whole new laws have to be written to address this way of being that is now possible with the advance of technology.

 

[jjenny]

To me it's a grey zone. She isn't a corpse, she isn't alive either because she is not breathing on her own and the person is no longer in the body. Maybe whole new laws have to be written to address this way of being that is now possible with the advance of technology.

I think of it as an alive body with a dead brain.

 

[octobermoon]

I think of it as an alive body with a dead brain.

It? SMH Heartless

 

[kincaid]

I think of it as an alive body with a dead brain.

IMO, it's a body in the slow motion process of dying containing a fetus who still has a heart beat.

Hopefully this case will get people talking. More people are getting comfortable discussing end of life issues. Perhaps this is something OB-GYNs should ask patients about. It's morbid but important.

 

[Marg from Oz]

Do we know if she was an organ donor? If she was, then she is donating her uterus to the child to be able to be born alive. Seeing as the time is passing quickly it will soon be time for the baby to be delivered. Also who would be paying for this law suit that the husband is taking out against the State of Texas? I should image it would cost a pretty penny unless someone is donating their services for free. JMOO

 

[faw720]

More protests at JPS Hospital on Sunday 1/19.

http://www.wfaa.com/news/local/tarr...al-over-fate-of-brain-dead-mom-241112351.html



http://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/Brain-Dead-Pregnant-Woman-Inspires-Protests-241109521.html

 

[faw720]

Do we know if she was an organ donor? If she was, then she is donating her uterus to the child to be able to be born alive. Seeing as the time is passing quickly it will soon be time for the baby to be delivered. Also who would be paying for this law suit that the husband is taking out against the State of Texas? I should image it would cost a pretty penny unless someone is donating their services for free. JMOO

I certainly do NOT know this for a fact but I suspect that the attorneys are handling this case Pro Bono. Erick & Marlise were both paramedics, not exactly high paying jobs. Now only Erick is bringing home a paycheck so I'm sure money is an issue.

Thank God SOME people care about the Munoz family. Donations have been pouring in for them at the fire station where Erick works.

 

[dh109977]

More protests at JPS Hospital on Sunday 1/19.

http://www.wfaa.com/news/local/tarr...al-over-fate-of-brain-dead-mom-241112351.html



http://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/Brain-Dead-Pregnant-Woman-Inspires-Protests-241109521.html

I hope this child pulls through with no long term effects. Then someday when He or she is older can laugh in the faces of everyone who wanted this poor child dead.

What a sick world we live in.

 

[jjenny]

It? SMH Heartless

????
It applies to the problem. I think of this problem as...
Geez.

 

[faw720]

I didn't know there were that many either. When you mentioned it earlier in the thread, I knew of one only. Dr. Donna C (representing the Pro-Life party) was very much in the press during Wendy D's (representing the Pro-Choice party) marathon Senate filibuster on women's reproductive rights at the end of the session last year.
I enjoy your commentary in this thread. It helps me. We're learning together.

Thank you for your kind words.

I think that from this point forward it is best that I not comment too much. I am so passionate about this case that I fear my comments would offend too many people. My blood pressure is already in the stratosphere & I don't want to cause others to have the same problem. I'm just an old peace loving hippie.eace:

 

[jjenny]

The post with link. She called this woman "it". I find it heartless if you don't so be it.

I think of it as an alive body with a dead brain.

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - With pregnant wife unresponsive on life support, husband hopes to fulfill her wishes

I was trying to explain to you that I was talking about the situation, and didn't call the woman "it." But you clearly refuse to listen.

 

[jjenny]

Her name is Marlise. She isn't a problem for you to solve. Real woman, real person, mother, wife. Have some respect please.

The problem I was referring to is whether someone who is brain dead should be considered dead or alive.
While it might not be a problem for me to solve, it clearly is something that is open to debate. And please, quit misinterpreting my post even after I explained to you what I was talking about.

 

[jjenny]

I hope this child pulls through with no long term effects. Then someday when He or she is older can laugh in the faces of everyone who wanted this poor child dead.

What a sick world we live in.

I hope that too, but this particular demonstration was actully those who wanted Marlise to be kept on life support.
Viability of the fetus will be determined in 3 weeks. And maybe (or even likely) it's wrong that family wishes were not considered.
But at this time, I just hope no decision is made until it's determined whether the fetus is viable considering how soon it will be clear whether fetus has a chance or not.

 

[Karmady]

She is in the hospital bed, attached to a ventillator and requiring lots of care. I am sure all of it is costing a pretty penny. Sounds like a patient to me.

I went and looked to see if the statute defines "patient" and, if I'm looking at the correct one, it does not. It does, however, refer to a patient as someone who will die without continued support (paraphrasing). I couldn't easily find whether Texas as adopted the Uniform Determination of Death Act or passed some other law providing that brain death = death. If it has, than that would probably answer whether she is a patient based on the statute's use of the word "patient" in the context of someone who is not yet dead.

If not, there's a dual ambiguity, imo, about who is "dead" and who is a "patient."

And, to be clear, I'm speaking strictly about what the law is or may be, not what anyone thinks it should be. Two different issues, imo.

As my g'father used to say when faced with frustrating situations "good night, what a mess."


http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/Docs/HS/htm/HS.166.htm

jmo