TX TX - President John F. Kennedy, 46, Dallas, 22 Nov 1963

  • #281
Which questions?

Which doubts?

I really don't see any, tbh.
Hundreds of books and articles have been written about the assassination, each based on "known facts", interpretation, and other information. Theories as to suspects, motives, time lines, and interactions vary widely. For every argument one way, there is a counter argument.

At the center of any scenario is Lee Harvey Oswald. The FBI presented an impressive list of circumstantial evidence linking him to the crime, and the Warren Commission focused most of their efforts on trying to prove that he was the one and only shooter that day.

Most theories suggest that there were MORE than one shooter, and in fact, a later Congressional Investigation concluded the same - but without naming anyone else.

Did Oswald act alone? Or were others involved? It is known that the FBI and the Secret Service withheld information from the Warren Commission and from the Congressional Committee. And even today, certain government files and records remain sealed from the public.
 
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  • #282
Still so many unanswered questions. Personally, I believe that Oswald was the shooter and was almost certainly the ONLY shooter. But did he act alone? That part I doubt. He was part of a conspiracy, I believe, but I don't know who all was behind it. I don't believe that Jack Ruby shot and killed Oswald just because he suddenly wanted to relive Mrs. Kennedy from having to come back for a trial and to redeem Dallas.
 
  • #283
Still so many unanswered questions. Personally, I believe that Oswald was the shooter and was almost certainly the ONLY shooter. But did he act alone? That part I doubt. He was part of a conspiracy, I believe, but I don't know who all was behind it. I don't believe that Jack Ruby shot and killed Oswald just because he suddenly wanted to relive Mrs. Kennedy from having to come back for a trial and to redeem Dallas.

A while back I read the autobio of Robbie Robertson, guitarist and songwriter for The Band. Both he and drummer Levon Helm had recounted a story of being hired to play at a Ft Worth night club during the 60's. I think it was back when they were playing with Ronnie Hawkins as The Hawks. Anyway, the owner of this club was very shady, gave off the vibe of doing illegal things, not paying them, plus being violent. After the assassination, they recognized him as Jack Ruby. They said he was not a nice person, very shady.

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Robbie might exaggerate a little, but Levon confirmed the story years earlier.
 
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  • #284
There are also some who claim in the Zapruder film you can see the driver William Greer turn and shoot JFK in the head, which is why Jackie tried to climb out of the car.

Ive seen the close up over 100 times, I cant discern anything that doest just seem like a play of light and shadows also the impact would have to be from a very large caliber handgun for that type of blast.
I've heard that theory before. It is, however, in my humble opinion, complete and utter rubbish. It's just so off the wall as to be impossible.

To start with; if you are going to assassinate the person who is at that time probably the most significant, powerful and influential person in the world then is this really the best way to do it and get away with it? Are we really to believe that the plan of his driver turning round to shot him in the head in front of literally thousands of witnesses whist surrounded by police and Secret Service personnel is the best plan that trained professionals could come up with? Like how on earth would anyone expect to get away with that?

If you're going to shoot him would it not just be easier to do it somewhere secluded - say, like a parking garage or something? Or literally anywhere away from pubic scrutiny.

Secondly, the theory is absolutely, 100% demonstrably false. In the Zapruder frame which shows the bullet impacting JFKs head, the blood and brain matter projects generally forward. That proves beyond any doubt that it was a shot from the rear. It could not have been a shot from the front which categorically rules out the driver having done it.

Any theory which relies on a bullet from the front is categorically wrong. The Zapruder film proves it to be so.
 
  • #285
Speaking purely from an investigative standpoint, IMO the glaring evidence of higher involvement is the behavior of everything following

Why would anything be kept secret ? that tells you something

but IMO the smoking gun , the presidents brain mysteriously goes missing from the national archives ... If it ever made it there to begin with
 
  • #286
What exactly is being kept secret, though?

As to the brain, is it not simply the case that it was returned to the family for the funeral or afterwards as it's just the right and proper thing to do? Looking at it sensibly, why on earth would there be a reason for the national archives to keep it? That just seems bizarrely ghoulish, to be honest.

What would it prove in any event? The Zap film proves conclusively that it was a shot from the back to the front. The shot which came out of his neck and also hit Connally was also fired from the rear. There is literally no evidence anywhere of any other shots being discharged.

I get that people have questions, questions which derive from the absolute enormity and the graphically public nature of the event. I get that people have trouble accepting that such a thing was possible by a single man acting alone. Now, don't get me wrong, perhaps he wasn't acting entirely alone and perhaps he really was the "useful idiot" manipulated by other actors. That is a different set of questions, though - and still ones I really don't see much evidence for, speaking personally.

You cannot argue with physics, though. The two bullets which hit Kennedy (one also hitting Connally) were fired from the rear. That isn't in dispute. The probability that they came from anything other than the rifle found in the book depository is so remote as to be effectively impossible.
 
  • #287
I'm not arguing there was another shooter, I'm saying there's reason to believe there was involvement outside the rogue assassin theory

First The Warren commission reports have been a thing of debate for decades now , some say the entire report itself was tainted.

Remember Oswald was on the CIA watch-list, an agency Kennedy threatened to "Splinter and scatter in the wind"

The Zapruder film is actually hard to discern if you know anything about ballistics, usually the exit wound is larger than the entrance wound because high caliber rounds start to tumble, but it was the position Kennedy was in when struck that leads even seasoned investigators to suspect there was a shot from the front, because his head was slightly down the impact from the round sends tissue flying up not forward as one would suspect a rear placed shot would .

I firmly believe the fatal shot came from the rear

Ive seen nothing saying that the presidents brain had ever been recovered, it would be considered forensic evidence. I have seen what i was told were X rays , and old autopsy photos, and due to the amount of damage its hard to discern which direction the round came from however the X rays seem to indicate the path of the round from the rear to the front, again .. If these were authentic.

a 6.5 MM round can do a lot of damage, there probably wasn't much left trying not to be grim, but in the face of an investigation for that to go missing will do nothing but foster conspiracy theories .
The Warren commission files were revealed to the public little by little with redaction's, however you have to remember the unpublished findings were sealed under a 75 year rule, but again these also faced criticism as to whether or not the Warren commission itself was appointed to aid in a cover up (Not saying I agree with it , just pointing it out)

CIA officials were instructed to only give passive answers to inquiry and in 2014 the a CIA Chief historian revealed that the CIA indeed did withhold information.
 
  • #288
What exactly is being kept secret, though?

As to the brain, is it not simply the case that it was returned to the family for the funeral or afterwards as it's just the right and proper thing to do? Looking at it sensibly, why on earth would there be a reason for the national archives to keep it? That just seems bizarrely ghoulish, to be honest.

What would it prove in any event? The Zap film proves conclusively that it was a shot from the back to the front. The shot which came out of his neck and also hit Connally was also fired from the rear. There is literally no evidence anywhere of any other shots being discharged.

I get that people have questions, questions which derive from the absolute enormity and the graphically public nature of the event. I get that people have trouble accepting that such a thing was possible by a single man acting alone. Now, don't get me wrong, perhaps he wasn't acting entirely alone and perhaps he really was the "useful idiot" manipulated by other actors. That is a different set of questions, though - and still ones I really don't see much evidence for, speaking personally.

You cannot argue with physics, though. The two bullets which hit Kennedy (one also hitting Connally) were fired from the rear. That isn't in dispute. The probability that they came from anything other than the rifle found in the book depository is so remote as to be effectively impossible.

The study of ballistics is pretty well defined and straightforward when you consider that it is all about the physics of a given, specific round with known powder weight, known bullet type and weight, consistently loaded, and fired from a rifle with a known barrel length and rifling twist rate.

All that, coupled with known weather/wind conditions and consistent shooting by a skilled shooter, can allow for accurate predictions and results. When any of those factors vary, so do results. Hunters, military snipers, competitive match shooters, and ammunition reloaders know these things very well.

When trying to forensicly reconstruct a crime, such as the shooting of President Kennedy, it is TERMINAL BALLISTICS, which are used, and that is a much more unpredictable and widely variable area.

When a bullet strikes something, many different things can occur. The many studies and theories about the Kennedy assassination bear this out. Besides the two bullets usually mentioned and ascribed to Oswald's WW II Italian Manlicher Carcano rifle, there was at least one other round (and possibly more) fired.

The Warren Report concluded that the first shot fired by Oswald missed, possibly having been deflected by a tree branch and hitting pavement next to, or behind the Presidential Limousine. That bullet was not reported as being recovered (although it may have been). Kennedy can be seen in the Zapruder film reacting to the first shot - either startled by the noise or possibly being struck by a fragment.

The second shot (according to the Warren Commission) struck Kennedy in the back. There is controversy here. While the official WC report concluded that it exited through his neck and then struck Governor Connally, medical witnesses state that the back wound was only a few inches deep. Former Secret Service Agent Paul Landis came forward just last year to claim that he found the so called "pristine/magic bullet" in the Limousine just behind where Kennedy was sitting and that he placed it on the table in the Emergency Room.

There is much controversy about the third "head shot" bullet as well. There was an apparent bullet strike dent in the interior windshield frame just to the right of the rear view mirror, as well as a crack in the windshield just to its left (as seen from the driver's perspective. And yes, the bullet fragments reportedly from that shot ( linked by the FBI to Oswald's rifle) were all found on the floor in front of Nellie Connally's left side jump seat.

The body itself would have to be considered as the primary source of forensic evidence. The rushed manner in which the President's body was taken from Parkland Hospital in Dallas, and autopsied at Bethesda Naval Hospital in Maryland without communication between doctors at those locations added controversy.

We will probably never know all the answers, but there are many legitimate questions.
 
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  • #289
  • #290
IMO:
When it comes to the full declassification of documents on these 3 men's assassinations and UFOs for that matter enter the "it presents a national security risk" for not doing so as their "back door strategy" when making these types of declassification claims/promises.
 
  • #291
I'm confused on exactly what JFK's grandson means.

94456993-14319473-Schlossberg_JFK_s_only_grandson_and_a_social_media_favorite_took-a-1_1737673723643.jpg



 
  • #292
  • #293
That is very perplexing.
agree, I fail to see what all the kickback on declassification is about. These files should have been declassified long ago (MOO). The government has had more than ample time to redact whatever may need redacting.
 
  • #294
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  • #295
  • #296
Schlossberg has more to say here.

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  • #297
Schlossberg has more to say here.

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@ 4:50
CIA/Intelligence agencies

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  • #298
  • #299

Lee Harvey Oswald, posing with his rifle, revolver, and Communist newspapers in 1963.

Lee Harvey Oswald's Rifle | Warehouse 13 Artifact Database Wiki ...

An Italian 6.5 mm Manlicher Carcano Rifle with 4 power scope. This rifle is similar to the one Oswald purchased via mail from Klein's Sporting Goods using the alias of A. Hidell.
https://www.bing.com/ck/a?!&&p=89a2...Njk2NjQ1RDE3RjgwQkM3MkMzMUU1QzNGMzQzMzY&ntb=1
Lee Harvey Oswald - Criminal Minds Wiki
Oswald's actual 1940 vintage rifle photographed in Black and White by the FBI for the Warren Commission. The sling was part of a leather Air Force shoulder holster strap, which he attached to the rifle.
https://www.bing.com/ck/a?!&&p=5452...ODc5RUNEMzlGM0JFRjYyQ0IwOEVGREQzNDUzNTQ&ntb=1
 
  • #300
The description of the rifle being a Mannlicher Carcano is incorrect. It comes from a misidentification by one of the first officers at the scene. Mannlicher is an Austrian company who did make a similar rifle in 6.5x54mm. The Carcano is in the 6.5x52mm Italian service cartridge.

Mannlicher produced a series of rifles which look superficially similar in that they have a split rear receiver ring through which the bolt handle passes so the misidentification is somewhat understandable.
 

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