TX TX - President John F. Kennedy, 46, Dallas, 22 Nov 1963
- Thread starter Dark Knight
- Start date
You are correct in saying that the rifle was misidentified early on by a Dallas police officer. But he incorrectly called it "Mauser", probably due to its similar look to an 1891 Argentine Mauser.
The rifle found and photographed in the School Book Depository Building was actually a 1940 vintage M38 Italian army rifle from World War II.
The term "Mannlicher Carcano" refers to both the magazine loading design (Mannlicher) and the Italian arsenal (Carcano) which developed it. This was terminology often used in US advertisements marketing these surplus rifles in the early 1960's.
Another term sometimes used commercially to describe the same surplus rifle was "Terni Carbine" because many were marked "Terni" for the arsenal where they were made.
The rifle found was linked to Lee Harvey Oswald through his order and purchase of it from Klein's Sporting Goods, Chicago, IL.
The rifle he requested, was actually an older and shorter carbine version. Because Klein's was sold out of the requested carbine, they substituted the rifle mailed to the Post Office Box rented by Oswald in the name A. Hidell.
The rifle arrived with a 4 power scope attached.
Oswald was photographed with his camera by his wife Marina holding the rifle. It is believed 5hat he used the rifle in an unsuccessful assassination attempt on the life of General Walker some months prior to the assassination of President Kennedy.
A palm print, said to match Oswald was lifted from the rifle barrel in a location covered by the stock. A paper case or envelope fashioned from wrapping paper of a type available in the Depository Building was found on the 6th floor near the rifle and expended shell casings. Oswald's fingerprints were found on that item. It is believed that this was the package which Oswald was seen carrying from his home to the Depository in the car of fellow employee Buell Frazier.
All of this is Circumstantial Evidence upon which The Warren Commission based their conclusions regarding Oswald's participation/responsibility in the murder of President Kennedy.
The FBI just discovered about 2,400 records tied to President Kennedy's assassination that were never provided to a board tasked with reviewing and disclosing the documents, Axios has learned.
Zoom in: The contents of the newly found records are closely held secrets. The three sources who relayed their existence to Axios said they hadn't seen the documents.
Zoom in: The contents of the newly found records are closely held secrets. The three sources who relayed their existence to Axios said they hadn't seen the documents.
- But the discovery of thousands of records on one of the most scrutinized events in U.S. history is likely to raise questions about the procedures for vetting and releasing information across the entire government.
- "This is huge. It shows the FBI is taking this seriously," said Jefferson Morley, an expert on the assassination and vice president of the nonpartisan Mary Ferrell Foundation, the nation's largest source of online records of Kennedy's killing. He sued the U.S. government for more records.
Lee Harvey Oswald is the central character and suspect in this case. Much has been written about the assassination in books, articles, lectures, and in official investigations and reports.
To paraphrase the Chad Mitchel Trio, "Some say he didn't do it. Others say of course he did, but they all agree young Marxist Lee was a problem sort of kid!"
The Presidential "Blue Ribbon" Warren Commission concluded - after reviewing months of witness testimony, evidence, and Investigative reports from the FBI, CIA, police and medical experts - that Oswald acted completely on his own - and that he was, unfortunately, silenced by another lone individual, Jack Ruby - acting entirely on his own.
If this is the actual truth, then there should be absolutely no reason to keep information or files classified as Secret over 60 years after the assassination. It is this very secrecy that has caused doubts and mistrust, fueling "conspiracy theories" about this tragic historic event.
It is known that the FBI, CIA, Secret Service, and probably other agencies kept information from the Warren Commission, produced evidence which pointed only to Oswald, and lied about other factors.
Oswald was an FBI informant. The CIA certainly had files on him because of his defection to the Soviet Union. The Marine Corps and Navy had files on him because he was given a Dishonorable Discharge based on his defection.
How much of the Secret Classification was really to protect sources that needed protection, and how much was used simply to cover up the mistakes - or culpability of those government agencies?
Did Lee Harvey Oswald act entirely on his own? Were there others involved? How much was known about him by the various agencies? Who ordered Oswald's murder?
To paraphrase the Chad Mitchel Trio, "Some say he didn't do it. Others say of course he did, but they all agree young Marxist Lee was a problem sort of kid!"
The Presidential "Blue Ribbon" Warren Commission concluded - after reviewing months of witness testimony, evidence, and Investigative reports from the FBI, CIA, police and medical experts - that Oswald acted completely on his own - and that he was, unfortunately, silenced by another lone individual, Jack Ruby - acting entirely on his own.
If this is the actual truth, then there should be absolutely no reason to keep information or files classified as Secret over 60 years after the assassination. It is this very secrecy that has caused doubts and mistrust, fueling "conspiracy theories" about this tragic historic event.
It is known that the FBI, CIA, Secret Service, and probably other agencies kept information from the Warren Commission, produced evidence which pointed only to Oswald, and lied about other factors.
Oswald was an FBI informant. The CIA certainly had files on him because of his defection to the Soviet Union. The Marine Corps and Navy had files on him because he was given a Dishonorable Discharge based on his defection.
How much of the Secret Classification was really to protect sources that needed protection, and how much was used simply to cover up the mistakes - or culpability of those government agencies?
Did Lee Harvey Oswald act entirely on his own? Were there others involved? How much was known about him by the various agencies? Who ordered Oswald's murder?
Last edited:
Clint Hill, Secret Service Agent Who Risked His Life to Protect JFK, Dies at 93
Clint Hill, the Secret Service agent who risked his life on Nov. 22, 1963, in an attempt to protect then-President John F. Kennedy and first lady Jacqueline Kennedy, died on Feb. 21 at the age of 93.
Clint Hill, Secret Service agent who leapt onto JFK's car after the president was shot, dies at 93
The Secret Service agent who leapt onto the back of President John F. Kennedy's limousine after the president was shot has died. He was 93. Hill was forced to retire
Attachments
- Joined
- Oct 31, 2008
- Messages
- 23,337
- Reaction score
- 124,515
Just came here to post this. Bless his heart. RIP. He suffered greatly after JFK's assassination. He also brought some measure of comfort and security to the First Lady afterwards. They both belonged to a club that doesn't have many members - survivors of a presidential assassination.Clint Hill, Secret Service Agent Who Risked His Life to Protect JFK, Dies at 93
Clint Hill, the Secret Service agent who risked his life on Nov. 22, 1963, in an attempt to protect then-President John F. Kennedy and first lady Jacqueline Kennedy, died on Feb. 21 at the age of 93.people.com
Clint Hill, Secret Service agent who leapt onto JFK's car after the president was shot, dies at 93
The Secret Service agent who leapt onto the back of President John F. Kennedy's limousine after the president was shot has died. He was 93. Hill was forced to retirewww.bakersfield.com
@KHOU
RIP | Clint Hill, the Secret Service agent who leaped onto the back of President John F. Kennedy's limousine after the president was shot, then was forced to retire early because he remained haunted by memories of the assassination, has died. He was 93.
Credit: AP
John F. Kennedy slumps in the back of the presidential limo as it speeds along Elm Street in Dallas, Texas, after being fatally shot, Nov. 22, 1963.
BELVEDERE, Calif. — Clint Hill, the Secret Service agent who leaped onto the back of President John F. Kennedy's limousine after the president was shot, then was forced to retire early because he remained haunted by memories of the assassination, has died. He was 93.
Hill died Friday at his home in Belvedere, California, according to his publisher, Gallery Books, an imprint of Simon & Schuster. A cause of death was not given.
www.khou.com
2/24/2025
A private funeral service will be held in Washington, D.C., on a future date.
Credit: Joyce Marshall/Star-Telegram via AP, File
FILE - Clint Hill, a member of the late First Lady Jacqueline Kennedy's secret service detail, speaks to the media, Friday, Nov. 22, 2013.
RIP | Clint Hill, the Secret Service agent who leaped onto the back of President John F. Kennedy's limousine after the president was shot, then was forced to retire early because he remained haunted by memories of the assassination, has died. He was 93.
Credit: AP
John F. Kennedy slumps in the back of the presidential limo as it speeds along Elm Street in Dallas, Texas, after being fatally shot, Nov. 22, 1963.
BELVEDERE, Calif. — Clint Hill, the Secret Service agent who leaped onto the back of President John F. Kennedy's limousine after the president was shot, then was forced to retire early because he remained haunted by memories of the assassination, has died. He was 93.
Hill died Friday at his home in Belvedere, California, according to his publisher, Gallery Books, an imprint of Simon & Schuster. A cause of death was not given.
Secret Service agent who leaped onto JFK's car after the president was shot has died
Although few may recognize his name, the footage of Hill leaping onto the back of JFK's car, provided some of the most indelible images of Kennedy's assassination.
www.khou.com
2/24/2025
A private funeral service will be held in Washington, D.C., on a future date.
Credit: Joyce Marshall/Star-Telegram via AP, File
FILE - Clint Hill, a member of the late First Lady Jacqueline Kennedy's secret service detail, speaks to the media, Friday, Nov. 22, 2013.
- Joined
- Oct 22, 2009
- Messages
- 7,275
- Reaction score
- 49,944
Sad to the see his passing. He was an iconic figure of a horrific day.
Last edited:
"Heroic Secret Service agent Clint Hill
who leaped onto JFK and Jackie after assassination
dies aged 93."
www.dailymail.co.uk
who leaped onto JFK and Jackie after assassination
dies aged 93."
Heroic Secret Service agent Clint Hill dies aged 93
Although few may recognize his name, the footage of Clint Hill provided some of the most indelible images of Kennedy's assassination in Dallas on November 22, 1963.
- Joined
- Oct 31, 2008
- Messages
- 23,337
- Reaction score
- 124,515
"Heroic Secret Service agent Clint Hill
who leaped onto JFK and Jackie after assassination
dies aged 93."
View attachment 566203
Heroic Secret Service agent Clint Hill dies aged 93
Although few may recognize his name, the footage of Clint Hill provided some of the most indelible images of Kennedy's assassination in Dallas on November 22, 1963.
He was one of many people who came to work that day and performed their jobs very well, in the midst of such an unspeakable tragedy. They did it without thinking, just went on auto pilot, following their training. I also admire the driver of the presidential limo who automatically began to speed up to the highway and the closest hospital. That must have been a terrifying drive, in an open car on a crowded highway, not knowing what would happen next.
Here's Clint talking about it. Dallas Police Chief was in the car ahead of them and he led the way to Parkland Hospital.
Last edited:
- Joined
- Jul 13, 2011
- Messages
- 5,336
- Reaction score
- 28,326
- Joined
- Oct 22, 2009
- Messages
- 7,275
- Reaction score
- 49,944
Did agent Clint Hill ever comment on Agent Paul Landis's book statement that Landis found the bullet in the backseat of the limo and then placed it on the stretcher?
Former Agent Hill says people who are now questioning this new story from Landis should decide for themselves by reading and conducting research. But because of the timeline and location where the bullet was found, Agent Hill says Landis’s new version of events just doesn’t add up.
“It couldn’t have happened the way he now tells the story,” said Hill.
Landis is being interviewed now in advance of his new book, which is coming out in October.
Former Agent Hill said Landis reached out to him to endorse his new book, but he says there was so much misinformation and untruth that he declined.
www.kfyrtv.com
“It couldn’t have happened the way he now tells the story,” said Hill.
Landis is being interviewed now in advance of his new book, which is coming out in October.
Former Agent Hill said Landis reached out to him to endorse his new book, but he says there was so much misinformation and untruth that he declined.
Former Secret Service Agent reacts to colleague’s changing testimony on JFK Assassination
A new eyewitness to the JFK assassination is breaking his silence after nearly 60 years. However, the new information he presents is raising eyebrows for some.
- Joined
- Oct 22, 2009
- Messages
- 7,275
- Reaction score
- 49,944
Thanks for the info. If I get some free time, I'll try to read through all this. I remember when Landis's claims came out think that it just didn't make sense.Former Agent Hill says people who are now questioning this new story from Landis should decide for themselves by reading and conducting research. But because of the timeline and location where the bullet was found, Agent Hill says Landis’s new version of events just doesn’t add up.
“It couldn’t have happened the way he now tells the story,” said Hill.
Landis is being interviewed now in advance of his new book, which is coming out in October.
Former Agent Hill said Landis reached out to him to endorse his new book, but he says there was so much misinformation and untruth that he declined.
Former Secret Service Agent reacts to colleague’s changing testimony on JFK Assassination
A new eyewitness to the JFK assassination is breaking his silence after nearly 60 years. However, the new information he presents is raising eyebrows for some.
It does go counter to the official line. It negates the "Magic Bullet" theory, which is central to the Warren Commission conclusion that there was only one shooter. If that bullet was found on the back seat, behind Kennedy, it obviously could not have caused seven wounds in both Kennedy and Connally.
But it could actually make sense in another way. IF it were an under powered "squib" round, (intentional or not) it may have only penetrated a short way and worked out of Kennedy's back.
Three observations could support this:
- The bullet is intact and only slightly mishappened.
- The bullet fragments found in Connally's wounds weighed more than the weight shed by the bullet.
- The Autopsy report (Bethesda Naval Hospital) stated that the wound to Kennedy's back was a shallow one.
It was never clearly stated or known exactly where the bullet was found. It was said that someone found it on a gurney and cleaned it before turning it over to an FBI agent? It was assumed/theorized that it had fallen out of Connally's left thigh onto the gurney, but there were several gurneys in the emergency room area and nearby passageways.
The magic bullet story conveniently explained how Oswald could have been the lone shooter. Only that bullet and two fragments of another were recovered which were matched to test bullets fired from Oswald's rifle by the FBI.
- Joined
- Nov 23, 2012
- Messages
- 1,714
- Reaction score
- 2,884
That is just heartbreaking to watch.
- Joined
- Jul 29, 2018
- Messages
- 11,189
- Reaction score
- 74,034
I enjoyed this YouTube. It is a reunion of the doctors who took the first care of President Kennedy at Parkland Hospital.
They just tell about how it looked to them, young doctors and residents.
They just tell about how it looked to them, young doctors and residents.
The 2013 video interview of two Parkland Hospital doctors is an interesting one. It was 50 years after the assassination, and it mentions that most of the other doctors involved with trying to save the life of JFK and Lee Harvey Oswald had since passed away.
Besides relating details of their memories and actions, they discuss briefly their observations of the wounds to both shooting victims.
They mention the chaos and crowding of Trauma Room 1 where JFK was being treated, and how they observed only two wounds: one small bullet puncture to the throat (which they believed at the time was an entry wound) and a massive wound to the back of the head (which they believed was an exit wound).
Once Kennedy was pronounced dead, their work was finished, and they never saw the bullet wound in his back. Nor did they examine the head for any entrance wounds. The body was quickly removed from the hospital over protests of the Dallas coroner, who wanted to conduct an autopsy.
An autopsy was conducted later that night in Maryland at Bethesda Naval Hospital.
One doctor relates how he and another happened to remain in the emergency room after the crowd left, and a priest came in to administer last rites. He also watched Jacqueline Kennedy enter the room, speak to Father Huber, and say her good bye.
Last edited:
D
Deleted member 235284
Guest
RIP MR Hill. That old interview is such a tough watch. Such a shame he basically turned to drinking to cope with his shame and guilt over not saving Kennedy.
Was glad to see him say later in life he eventually returned to Daly Plaza and found some peace in knowing that the assassin had the advantage that day and that realistically there was not much they could have done to stop it.
The books he wrote and interviews he gave in later life about JFK Jackie and other presidents were always very insightful.
Was glad to see him say later in life he eventually returned to Daly Plaza and found some peace in knowing that the assassin had the advantage that day and that realistically there was not much they could have done to stop it.
The books he wrote and interviews he gave in later life about JFK Jackie and other presidents were always very insightful.
Similar threads
Staff online
-
TriciaManager Websleuths.com
Online statistics
- Members online
- 124
- Guests online
- 2,640
- Total visitors
- 2,764