TX - Sandra Bland, 28, found dead in jail cell, Waller County, 13 July 2015 #1

[Montjoy]

I don't think it will change a thing. There will still be bad cops. There will still be good cops. And there will be people still saying that all cops are bad. That's the point I'm making.

By that logic, why arrest murderers? There will still be murderers. We arrest them because it takes one more bad person off the streets and punishes them for what they did -- just like firing a bad cop does.

 

[katydid23]

Do we know she had drugs in her system? I think I missed something.

On CNN, on Anderson Cooper, an ME said the initial reports were that she had marijuana in her system and had lost of 'cutting scars' showing a history of cutting. He said that those two things increase the chances that one might commit suicide.

 

[katydid23]

By that logic, why arrest murderers? There will still be murderers. We arrest them because it takes one more bad person off the streets and punishes them for what they did -- just like firing a bad cop does.

So what about all of this public brouhaha about her being a murder victim of the police. Do you think that is what happened here?

 

[IzzyBlanche]

According to the intake paper she said she'd attempted suicide before with pills. But it's not unusual for someone who is depressed and suicidal to have more than one plan, and if you are curious or interested in the subject, or if you know someone who has committed suicide it's easy enough to research different methods. I think someone not depressed and with no history of suicidal ideation might not know what to do in those circumstances (in jail with limited resources), but unfortunately someone familiar with those moods and desperation might. And yes, I would know what to do. (Also, people who spend a lot of time on WS might have some ideas too.)

I have only read she hanged herself. Hanging is sometimes death by asphyxiation. In Robin Williams' case I believe his cause of death was asphyxia due to hanging.

Thanks--not that it matters, but I suffer from depression and have experienced a lot of suicidal ideation, primarily in the past, thank goodness, and yes I did contemplate different methods. But never that one.

Going off in a different direction (and just jumping off your post), my depression has come and gone over the years and I don't think it's very logical to assume that just because she was so depressed that she attempted suicide five years ago--assuming that's true--suicide now is a logical explanation for her death. Speaking from personal experience, I know five years is enormous amount of time to move from one state of mind to another and back again, several times.

 

[katydid23]

Yes. He had no right to command her to put out her cigarette. Firing the cop may be the right thing to do but it wont change a thing. JMO

I think he did have the right to ask her to put out her cig. Cops do that routinely because they can be used as weapons if the person decides to fight. He had no idea at that point who she was, if she had a warrant, or was armed. He has every right to be cautious.

 

[katydid23]

Thanks--not that it matters, but I suffer from depression and have experienced a lot of suicidal ideation, primarily in the past, thank goodness, and yes I did contemplate different methods. But never that one.

Going off in a different direction (and just jumping off your post), my depression has come and gone over the years and I don't think it's very logical to assume that just because she was so depressed that she attempted suicide five years ago--assuming that's true--suicide now is a logical explanation for her death. Speaking from personal experience, I know five years is enormous amount of time to move from one state of mind to another and back again, several times.

I thought it was 2014 that she said she tried to kill herself?

 

[Montjoy]

Calling him a bully may be totally fair. But many here are accusing the cops of beating her to death and staging a suicide.

I agree (that it is premature to suggest that she was murdered/a suicide was staged). I have withheld judgment on whether or not she killed herself, or whatever. It's a totally separate issue from the bad arrest that put her in jail.

I will point out, though, that had she not been put in jail, it's likely that she would still be alive. Moreover, there are some serious questions that need to be asked about why someone who admitted to a prior suicide attempt wouldn't be put on suicide watch, or at least left in a room in which she would not have the means to kill herself. But the questions on whether her custody was safe are largely separate from the arrest, and I simply do not have enough information to guess.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

Calling him a bully may be totally fair. But many here are accusing the cops of beating her to death and staging a suicide. Her family was leading the charge and calling in the professional protesters for some staged events this weekend.

I think that is totally unfair and off base. We can all have a conversation about this officers lack of professionalism and his bad ego problems and if he should be fired or not. But that is not what the issue seems to be. It is accusations of murder and people totally ignore other evidence of her being a potential suicide victim.

And I fear that these protests foster the hatred towards cops that lead to shootings like we just had in Hayward CA.

JMO

 

[Cappuccino]

How is he supposed to know if she is a gangster with a gun or not? Lots of women have pulled weapons on cops before.

If he seriously thought that woman was a gangster with a gun, he never would have baited and bullied her like that. He didn't feel under any threat of being shot, he was enjoying throwing his weight around.

Please stop making excuses for inexcusable behaviour, we can all look at that dashcam footage and see what he is, and he's not fit to be a police officer.

 

[PrimeSuspect]

The Texas Rangers and the FBI are investigating her death.
"It is very much too early to make any kind of determination that this was a suicide or a murder because the investigations are not complete," Waller County District Attorney Elton Mathis told reporters. "This is being treated like a murder investigation."
He said the case would go to a grand jury.

http://edition.cnn.com/2015/07/20/us/texas-sandra-bland-jail-death/


We can only go by what is reported. I'd hate to think anything untoward happened in that police cell. Sandra's family and the public have the right to know why this woman who couldn't wait to go to court, ended up dead.
There is strong evidence it was suicide IF the surveillance video footage of the corridor leading to her cell is found not to be tampered with, ALSO discounting any kind of injuries Sandra suffered prior to being admitted to the cell. A thorough investigation will clear things up eventually. JMO

 

[Montjoy]

So what about all of this public brouhaha about her being a murder victim of the police. Do you think that is what happened here?

I've already answered this, but I want to point out that the vast majority of the posts here (80-90%?) are about the arrest, and are not tied to the matter of her death.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

By that logic, why arrest murderers? There will still be murderers. We arrest them because it takes one more bad person off the streets and punishes them for what they did -- just like firing a bad cop does.

I didn't say he shouldn't be fired. I said it wont make any difference in how some feel about the police.

 

[Confusion]

Calling him a bully may be totally fair. But many here are accusing the cops of beating her to death and staging a suicide. Her family was leading the charge and calling in the professional protesters for some staged events this weekend.

I think that is totally unfair and off base. We can all have a conversation about this officers lack of professionalism and his bad ego problems and if he should be fired or not. But that is not what the issue seems to be. It is accusations of murder and people totally ignore other evidence of her being a potential suicide victim.

Personally, I'd be surprised if it turned out that someone had murdered her and faked a suicide, but I still feel they are somewhat responsible for her death. When someone who has been arrested tells them she had attempted suicide the previous year and has slash marks on her arms, I can't think of any excuse for not putting her on a suicide watch or at least having her evaluated.

I know someone who was suicidal when arrested, and he spent the first few days in a locked psych ward until he was more stable, and then checked on every 15 minutes for a couple weeks until they were sure he was okay. If they hadn't left her alone for over 90 minutes, she may not have been able to do anything if she wanted to.

MOO

 

[IzzyBlanche]

I was wondering about bail for Sandra and found this.



$500 and she would have been out. They probably didn't have it. What a shame.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articl...bail-before-allegedly-committing-suicide.html

As far as I am aware, she was arrested on July 10, a Friday. Maybe her family couldn't transfer the money to Texas until the new workweek started, for whatever reason. Or maybe the jail just didn't accept wire transfers and they sent out a check by FedEx that was to arrive first thing Monday morning which back in my day was 10:00, the time of the earlier FedEx delivery. By which time it was too late.

I'm wondering what made you assume the family didn't have it?

 

[katydid23]

I agree (that it is premature to suggest that she was murdered/a suicide was staged). I have withheld judgment on whether or not she killed herself, or whatever. It's a totally separate issue from the bad arrest that put her in jail.

I will point out, though, that had she not been put in jail, it's likely that she would still be alive. Moreover, there are some serious questions that need to be asked about why someone who admitted to a prior suicide attempt wouldn't be put on suicide watch, or at least left in a room in which she would not have the means to kill herself. But the questions on whether her custody was safe are largely separate from the arrest, and I simply do not have enough information to guess.

BBM

And at the risk of having to duck tomatoes, I will point out, that if she had not been so rude and obstinate, she would never have been arrested. She came at the cop too and baited him. He was totally unprofessional and out of line. I agree. I showed my son the video and he shook his head in disbelief and was angry. Angry that the cop allowed himself to be baited like that and took the bait. He said he should have called for back up and let it deescalate. But he is not responsible for her suicide, imo.

Her emotional and mental health issues were ongoing. They did not start with that traffic stop.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

Personally, I'd be surprised if it turned out that someone had murdered her and faked a suicide, but I still feel they are somewhat responsible for her death. When someone who has been arrested tells them she had attempted suicide the previous year and has slash marks on her arms, I can't think of any excuse for not putting her on a suicide watch or at least having her evaluated.

I know someone who was suicidal when arrested, and he spent the first few days in a locked psych ward until he was more stable, and then checked on every 15 minutes for a couple weeks until they were sure he was okay. If they hadn't left her alone for over 90 minutes, she may not have been able to do anything if she wanted to.

MOO

I agree. I would like to know a bit more about how the jail handled Sandra's incarceration. I read that she told them about an alleged prior suicide attempt.

Is a claim like that sufficient for special handling? Do they look at more factors? I don't know.

 

[IzzyBlanche]

I thought it was 2014 that she said she tried to kill herself?

You may be right. I thought I read five years ago.

 

[Montjoy]

I didn't say he shouldn't be fired. I said it wont make any difference in how some feel about the police.

I would disagree. The public needs to see that bad LE are punished, not protected. And you know what else? The people who should be calling the loudest for firing this officer are LE themselves. Every bad cop who gets involved in a situation like this makes life harder for all of the good cops out there. It's bad cops that have largely created the public relations nightmare that burdens many police departments and tarnishes the reputation of law enforcement in general. So, again, I disagree that it won't make any difference.

 

[arkansasmimi]

By that logic, why arrest murderers? There will still be murderers. We arrest them because it takes one more bad person off the streets and punishes them for what they did -- just like firing a bad cop does.

They are arrested because they broke the law. The LEO and have to have sufficient evidence to do so. Then they are innocent until proven guilty by a jury of their peers. That's the Judicial System we have in the USA.

Vigilante Justice is not how our Justice System is. Anyone can accuse anyone of anything, but you got to be able to prove it in a court of law. This crap of spitting in LEO faces, treating them like sewer sludge is wrong.

I am not defending all that this officer did, but we (The nosey public) dont know all the facts. We dont know what was going on in that car for the officer to ask her what was wrong BEFORE he even ran her DL.... which according to her property inventory she had a TX DL, TX ID and 2 different IL DL... different #s. She was not respectful even to herself. She was a smart mouth and just like grabbing her phone saying she was calling so in so. She doesn't get a pass for her bad behavior from me. My opinion, only matters to me.

She has fines of OVER $7,000 ... i guess those dui and possession charges are also some bad cops fault too. SMH

 

[katydid23]

Personally, I'd be surprised if it turned out that someone had murdered her and faked a suicide, but I still feel they are somewhat responsible for her death. When someone who has been arrested tells them she had attempted suicide the previous year and has slash marks on her arms, I can't think of any excuse for not putting her on a suicide watch or at least having her evaluated.

I know someone who was suicidal when arrested, and he spent the first few days in a locked psych ward until he was more stable, and then checked on every 15 minutes for a couple weeks until they were sure he was okay. If they hadn't left her alone for over 90 minutes, she may not have been able to do anything if she wanted to.

MOO

I totally agree. She should have been on suicide watch and monitored more closely. That is very sad.

But it is too bad that they made such a big public outcry claiming she would NEVER kill herself and implying the cops lynched her. That really angers me because the family attorney went off on a witch hunt and was irresponsible imo.