TX - Sandra Bland, 28, found dead in jail cell, Waller County, 13 July 2015 #1

[T4Tide]

I have a question. When someone commits a minor traffic offense and a police car is driving behind them and he suspects maybe the
person is drunk, or high or up to something.

Doesn't he pull them over? Then he begins to observe the situation, asking a normal question, looking in the vehicle, checking to see
if the person is okay?

If you are smoking a cig and he asks you to put it out, because a cig can be a distraction being used by the driver to conceal their breath, or their state of mind, or just the cig is distracting and right now you need to just focus on the officer.

I don't know any police officer that would know right away that she is who she is a nice person, an activist. He is going by what he sees.
He doesn't know what she has in the car, if she is drunk. She is being strange, he then asks her to get out of the vehicle, she refuses.

Is he trying to see if she is drunk? Hiding something?

Why won't she get out? The officer is asking himself this question. IS he suppose to let her go?

What if this story went another way, what if SHE was a criminal, maybe she IS DRUNK, maybe she has warrants, maybe she is hiding drugs under her drivers seat. Would he have been a hero for not just writing her a ticket?

I understand that her deathis suspicious and I agree it needs to be looked at, but she really didn't help her situation.

I once was approached by two police offers while I sat in my BFs car on my street. He asked us both to get out and he thought I rolled my eyes and he literrally said to me "Bi*ch are you rolling your eyes at me?" I was 17. I did nothing to provoke him and I did not roll my eyes. THAT RIGHT THERE was NOT OKAY. But I don't see this officer doing that right off the bat. I also did not argue with officer who said this to me. He thought I was a hooker! which was absurd since I was just a kid. He realized once I got out of the car and he spoke to me for a few minutes that he was reading the situation wrong. He apologized and let us go. MY point is, he didn't know me from a hooker and didn't know I was just a kid until I came out of the car and he was able to talk to me.

I am not Black by the way.

I am just saying here that she was quick to be defiant and he just didn't know why. MO

My husband and I got pulled over one time, and the officer asked him to get out of the truck. Another officer then showed up. While I'm sitting in the passenger seat, they talk to him at the rear of the vehicle. I'm sitting there wondering what the heck is possibly going on. But I still just sat there. Then one of the cops came up to my window and asked for my license. He looked at it and asked me where we were headed, etc. Finally, after what seemed like forever, my husband came back to the truck. He said, "You have to drive." I'm like "what?" Turns out we were pulled over for a busted tail light, and then hubby had an outstanding ticket (stop sign) that he forgot to pay. They ended up letting him go and he could fix the suspended license the next workday, but I had to drive.

Such little things really....and here I was sitting up there thinking my husband had killed someone or was smuggling heroin or something. I felt like the two cops and the time we spent pulled over were overkill, but we were polite and all went well. We're white. I'm sure the situation would not have gone as smoothly had we not been cooperative. A little respect goes a long way... I was taught to respect people in authority positions, even if I didn't agree with them.

I think what the cop did was excessive according to the video, but I can't see in the vehicle and see what he saw. I mean, I find it farfetched to think that he was doing all this because he wanted to. Just to be hateful. And allllll the people at the jail were bored, so they decided they'd just kill someone for no reason, and do all the associated extra paperwork, etc. And the mugshot? Omg....I can't even believe people are saying that she looks already dead. She looks like crap....yeah, but have you scrolled through mugshots.com lately? Ummm.....most people don't have coiffed hair and touched up makeup. They've been crying, their face is blotchy, and they look like crap. People obviously haven't seen enough dead people to know that their eyes and lips do not look like that post mortem. I could post two pictures of myself right now, too.....one were I'm "made up" and one where I am like I am now.....no makeup, scraggly hair. I'd look like crap, too.

 

[bettybaby00]

Since SB was in jail for three days.. did her family or friends call the jail or visit and let them (LE) know she was suicidal ?
Just wondering since they are obviously devastated now, but did they request SB be on a 24-hour suicide watch ?
:moo:

I doubt it. From what I can tell, they are denying that she would never be suicidal, and i inferred they were either unaware of the previous attempt, or they are going to continue denying she might have had problems. IIRC the attorney (I think it was family attorney) stated "the family denies that she was depressed or suicidal"


I did hear earlier one of the talking heads state that if the "correct" boxes were checked off by an inmate, they should be monitored more than someone who hadn't checked off those boxes.

 

[cady]

I'm not sure that her family knew of any previous suicide attempt. Her sister on MSNBC last night did know of the miscarriage in 2014. The family lives in Chicago, I believe. I don't know when Sandra moved to Texas, but she still had Illinois Plates. She had communicated to them that she was very excited about her new job. It sounds to me like she was very recently settling in to living in Texas and looking forward. An arrest, before she even got started with her job, must have been devastating, especially when she really did not understand WHY she was incarcerated and WHY $5000 bail (which, yes, would be $500) to get out. We do not know if she had a bunch of friends there, or not. I suspect not since she had just moved there. I feel so badly for her. JMO

 

[bettybaby00]

How did he know she wasn't a criminal? I don't understand how you put all of this on the cop. He doesn't know who she is when he stopped her! All he knows is what she is showing him. I wonder how many people would be interested in this story if she turned out to actually be drunk, or high on something or a wanted criminal.

Most criminals will act this way and the cop in no way was expected to assume that she was a "law abiding citizen" because man was she NOT acting like one.

Her mistake was assuming he was stopping her because she was black, she should have put the cigarrette out and then calmly answered his questions. He would have then realized she wasn't a threat and perhaps given her a ticket or warning, but instead she made herself look suspicious furthering that suspician by refusing to get out of the car.

Many criminals, kidnappers, rapists, murderers and drunk drivers have been stopped like this and caught because of it. He was doing what he was supposed to do.

What happened later is what needs to be addressed, not how she got there. MO

I think we have a huge problem right now. Animosity toward LE is at an all time high, and many "activists" are instructing people to be combative. I'm not saying she was of this mindset, but LE is painfully aware of the ever increasing "FTP" attitude. It's a catch 22 bc many feel they're being targeted, and LEOs are becoming paranoid. THis is all a generalization, but IMO this is what's happening in many of these cases. the knee jerk comments made by politicians coupled with the biased 24/7 reporting by MSM only perpetuates the whole mess.

MOOOOO and all that.

 

[kimlynn]

I'm not sure that her family knew of any previous suicide attempt. Her sister on MSNBC last night did know of the miscarriage in 2014. The family lives in Chicago, I believe. I don't know when Sandra moved to Texas, but she still had Illinois Plates. She had communicated to them that she was very excited about her new job. It sounds to me like she was very recently settling in to living in Texas and looking forward. An arrest, before she even got started with her job, must have been devastating, especially when she really did not understand WHY she was incarcerated and WHY $5000 bail (which, yes, would be $500) to get out. We do not know if she had a bunch of friends there, or not. I suspect not since she had just moved there. I feel so badly for her. JMO

I feel badly for her as well. This didn't need to happen. This cop (IMO) had no cause to order her out of her car because he didn't like her attitude and to me this is what it boiled down to.
I can imagine her frustration and anger over this stop especially since he made a u-turn and sped up in order to get behind her.
She seemed to think she was doing the right thing by changing lanes and sadly forgot to use her signal.
I know he changed it around that he was arresting her because she kicked him but if that did in fact happen it happened after his ordering/pulling her out of her vehicle.
Did anyone notice that he yelled at SB that she was resisting by pulling away and didn't mention anything to her about being kicked?
He did tell the female officer that he had been kicked after the arrest.
This guy isn't honest and that shows during his call in after the event. He tried to calm her my foot.
He did seem upset that SB refused to look at him (mentioned during call in) Again upset about attitude,but you can't or shouldn't be allowed to cuff and arrest due to not feeling respected. IMO

 

[Sophieandme]

My POV (disclosure: I am an older white woman) is that I could be Sandra Bland. Up and until he asked her (somewhat sarcastically, IMO) to put out her cig, I would have responded to the officer in the same way. He did ask her if she was irritated and she told him why. I would have done the same thing. She then seems resigned to getting the ticket.

If the cig smoke was bothering him, why didn't he proceed to the passenger side window, as he did when he initially approached her vehicle? Just saying....part of his job is being trained to learn how to de-escalate traffic stop tensions.

IMO, he went from 0-60 in seconds. Scary. As my mother used to say, he was then "looking for bear".

I have read comments about this tragedy all over the internet and am perplexed when I see commenters say to just do whatever the officer tells you to do...irregardless of whether it's lawful (e.g. put the cig out). Do I face the possibility of being arrested because I don't want to put my cig out in my car? Really? I was taught to question or stand up for what I think is right while being civil. Should I have to now fear arrest? (Yes, I think she was civil up until he reached in her car to pull her out.)

She asked numerous times why she was being apprehended. I did not hear him respond to her until much later. Do we not have that right? Did he have the right to ask her to stop recording and place her cell on her vehicle?

I appreciate and have much respect for LE...but not this character!

 

[T4Tide]

I think we have a huge problem right now. Animosity toward LE is at an all time high, and many "activists" are instructing people to be combative. I'm not saying she was of this mindset, but LE is painfully aware of the ever increasing "FTP" attitude. It's a catch 22 bc many feel they're being targeted, and LEOs are becoming paranoid. THis is all a generalization, but IMO this is what's happening in many of these cases. the knee jerk comments made by politicians coupled with the biased 24/7 reporting by MSM only perpetuates the whole mess.

MOOOOO and all that.

We are also (not speaking of Ms. Bland) looking at a generation that has been increasingly disrespectful to authority. Those same kids that wouldn't listen to or respect faculty at their school are now the same adults who disrespect LE.

If you've seen the chaos is some public high schools via YouTube, etc, then you've had a glimpse of our future as a society. And it's darn right scary.

 

[sloane7777]

HELLO PEEPS!!!!! I am still asking the same question which has not been addressed :


WHY WOULD YOU HAVE A TRASH BAG IN A JAIL CELL?????????????



ESP ONE LARGE ENOUGH TO HANG YOURSELF WITH?

 

[katydid23]

Very true. I wasn't exactly sure of the timeline of it all. I suppose the fact that she is in a prisoner type garb seems to indicate the mugshot wasn't taken straight away, as soon as she came into custody. So that seems to throw the whole timeline into some doubt IMO. Any ideas, anyone, why she would legitimately be photographed in a jumpsuit and not her own clothing?

Lots of mugshots are taken in prison jumpsuits. There are a few legitimate reasons. Sometimes at intake they will have someone put it on immediately if there is an issue with their clothing. Other times they might not get to that part of the intake process, the picture, until later on. Maybe the 'guest' wanted to wait, rest, rant, or whatever, first. They may start the process and be upset or combative and they are asked to go sit in 'holding' for awhile to calm down or rest.

I don't know why she had her jumpsuit on already. Maybe she didn't want to wear the dress for some reason. But I do know one thing---she was alive in that mug shot photo.

And I hope her family spokesman STOP trying to sell such a ridiculous accusation to the public.

There are front and side views of her face. Her eyes were open and focused. And it is dated BEFORE she made phone calls to friends and family. She was alive and it makes them look foolish to try and make such outlandish claims, imo.

 

[katydid23]

HELLO PEEPS!!!!! I am still asking the same question which has not been addressed :


WHY WOULD YOU HAVE A TRASH BAG IN A JAIL CELL?????????????



ESP ONE LARGE ENOUGH TO HANG YOURSELF WITH?

It was a small trash can liner. It is standard procedure in many cells. It was not large enough to 'hang' herself like a noose or anything. She basically strangled herself with it, and was standing, when found. Sorry to type all that--just trying to clarify.


I understand the need for trash can liners. It would get very filthy, unhealthy not to have them.

 

[desertmama]

My POV (disclosure: I am an older white woman) is that I could be Sandra Bland. Up and until he asked her (somewhat sarcastically, IMO) to put out her cig, I would have responded to the officer in the same way. He did ask her if she was irritated and she told him why. I would have done the same thing. She then seems resigned to getting the ticket.

If the cig smoke was bothering him, why didn't he proceed to the passenger side window, as he did when he initially approached her vehicle? Just saying....part of his job is being trained to learn how to de-escalate traffic stop tensions.

IMO, he went from 0-60 in seconds. Scary. As my mother used to say, he was then "looking for bear".

I have read comments about this tragedy all over the internet and am perplexed when I see commenters say to just do whatever the officer tells you to do...irregardless of whether it's lawful (e.g. put the cig out). Do I face the possibility of being arrested because I don't want to put my cig out in my car? Really? I was taught to question or stand up for what I think is right while being civil. Should I have to now fear arrest? (Yes, I think she was civil up until he reached in her car to pull her out.)

She asked numerous times why she was being apprehended. I did not hear him respond to her until much later. Do we not have that right? Did he have the right to ask her to stop recording and place her cell on her vehicle?

I appreciate and have much respect for LE...but not this character!

This right here. I agree with everything stated here. I went back and watched the video twice. She didn't refuse to put out her cigarette. She asked why she had to if she was in her own car.

Also, is she wearing a sleeveless dress? Wouldn't someone notice a bunch if cut marks on her arm?

 

[T4Tide]

Meh.....I don't smoke, but if I did, I'd put out my cigarette if a complete stranger asked me to, much less a cop.

I was taught that in a traffic stop to roll my window all the way down, turn my radio down, have my license and insurance ready and not be digging for it, keep my hands in my lap and say "yes, sir" and "no, sir." It's served me well.

But then, I don't have to be in control. When you've got two people that are butting heads and no one backs down, it just causes discord. I prefer to be more passive aggressive when I'm dealing with a hothead, because they think they are "winning," but I'm feeling sorry for them inside my head.

Blessed are the peacemakers...

 

[kimlynn]

It was a small trash can liner. It is standard procedure in many cells. It was not large enough to 'hang' herself like a noose or anything. She basically strangled herself with it, and was standing, when found. Sorry to type all that--just trying to clarify.


I understand the need for trash can liners. It would get very filthy, unhealthy not to have them.

I just can't picture that in my mind. How do you strangle yourself with a plastic bag without it breaking or your stopping yourself to breathe by instinct alone.
IMO
I agree with your earlier post about the mugshot. I think she was alive when it was taken.

 

[desertmama]

It was a small trash can liner. It is standard procedure in many cells. It was not large enough to 'hang' herself like a noose or anything. She basically strangled herself with it, and was standing, when found. Sorry to type all that--just trying to clarify.


I understand the need for trash can liners. It would get very filthy, unhealthy not to have them.

Actually, in the pictures CNN showed of the cell she was in, the trash can and liner looked to be quite large , like the one I have out by shed. I thought it odd such a huge garbage can would be in a jail cell.

 

[katydid23]

I just can't picture that in my mind. How do you strangle yourself with a plastic bag without it breaking or your stopping yourself to breathe by instinct alone.
IMO
I agree with your earlier post about the mugshot. I think she was alive when it was taken.

If you twist it like rope it is very strong. People have been strangled by them by killers before so they are not unable to do the job, sadly enough.

 

[katydid23]

Actually, in the pictures CNN showed of the cell she was in, the trash can and liner looked to be quite large , like the one I have out by shed. I thought it odd such a huge garbage can would be in a jail cell.

I thought the large bin was the laundry one, but IDK

 

[kimlynn]

If you twist it like rope it is very strong. People have been strangled by them by killers before so they are not unable to do the job, sadly enough.

I don't know. It seems if she placed it over a bar or rod it would break with her weight even with her feet supported, and if she wrapped it around her neck (in spite of determination) the instinct to breathe would win out. Very strange IMO

 

[cady]

I just can't picture that in my mind. How do you strangle yourself with a plastic bag without it breaking or your stopping yourself to breathe by instinct alone.
IMO
I agree with your earlier post about the mugshot. I think she was alive when it was taken.

The photo I saw was an industrial trashbag (large, see-thru) over a black bag in the trashcan. The ligature photo was of a clear trashbag twisted into a noose. Apparently the cell could hold several women, but she must have been alone, as there seem to be no witnesses. Not too much to throw out, since personal items are taken at booking. Not a good idea to leave any trashbag, let alone a strong industrial-type one in a cell with a person who is clearly depressed, and has acknowledged a previous suicide attempt. JMO

 

[bluesneakers]

I don't know. It seems if she placed it over a bar or rod it would break with her weight even with her feet supported, and if she wrapped it around her neck (in spite of determination) the instinct to breathe would win out. Very strange IMO

I assumed she was kneeling.

 

[katydid23]

I don't know. It seems if she placed it over a bar or rod it would break with her weight even with her feet supported, and if she wrapped it around her neck (in spite of determination) the instinct to breathe would win out. Very strange IMO

I guess the only other options would be that she was murdered and someone strangled her by force. But the surveillance cams do not show anyone coming into her cell at that time. And her 'neighbor' in the next cell heard nothing to make it seem like a ruckus. And she had no defensive wounds. And I see no believable motive for the jailers to have a big murder conspiracy and kill her for no apparent reason.

Suicide seems less strange in this case than a murder. JMO