TX - Sandra Bland, 28, found dead in jail cell, Waller County, 13 July 2015 #1

[cady]

They are stumbling all over themselves NOT because they are worried about being charged with murder, but for gross negligence in the handling of their inmate. JMO

 

[kimlynn]

I guess the only other options would be that she was murdered and someone strangled her by force. But the surveillance cams do not show anyone coming into her cell at that time. And her 'neighbor' in the next cell heard nothing to make it seem like a ruckus. And she had no defensive wounds. And I see no believable motive for the jailers to have a big murder conspiracy and kill her for no apparent reason.

Suicide seems less strange in this case than a murder. JMO

I'm having trouble seeing the trash bag as strong enough to actually work when used by the person intending death.
The will to breathe alone would make suicide difficult using a bag wrapped around the neck.
I wonder if any tests were conducted to test how sturdy the bag was.
I don't think she was killed on purpose but maybe she died and for whatever reason it was decided to claim death by suicide. IMO
It is possible she did kill herself but the method used seems a bit questionable. IMO

ETA were there sheets on the bed?

 

[bluesneakers]

I guess the only other options would be that she was murdered and someone strangled her by force. But the surveillance cams do not show anyone coming into her cell at that time. And her 'neighbor' in the next cell heard nothing to make it seem like a ruckus. And she had no defensive wounds. And I see no believable motive for the jailers to have a big murder conspiracy and kill her for no apparent reason.

Suicide seems less strange in this case than a murder. JMO

Looking at history her risk of attempting suicide was pretty high, which imo means no way should there have been a plastic bag in her cell and she should have been checked on more often/put on suicide watch.

 

[bluesneakers]

I'm having trouble seeing the trash bag as strong enough to actually work when used by the person intending death.
The will to breathe alone would make suicide difficult using a bag wrapped around the neck.
I wonder if any tests were conducted to test how sturdy the bag was.
I don't think she was killed on purpose but maybe she died and for whatever reason it was decided to claim death by suicide. IMO
It is possible she did kill herself but the method used seems a bit questionable. IMO

It works. It works a lot and is a popular method of suicide.

http://www.nydailynews.com/life-sty...increasing-u-s-youths-study-article-1.2139767

 

[epmiller729]

People are now saying she is deceased in her mugshot

 

[cady]

The mugshot. I looked for a death stare. IMO it wasn't a death stare, but she really looked despondent. Devastated, hopeless. It makes me sick. JMO

 

[cinsbythesea]

My POV (disclosure: I am an older white woman) is that I could be Sandra Bland. Up and until he asked her (somewhat sarcastically, IMO) to put out her cig, I would have responded to the officer in the same way. He did ask her if she was irritated and she told him why. I would have done the same thing. She then seems resigned to getting the ticket.

If the cig smoke was bothering him, why didn't he proceed to the passenger side window, as he did when he initially approached her vehicle? Just saying....part of his job is being trained to learn how to de-escalate traffic stop tensions.

IMO, he went from 0-60 in seconds. Scary. As my mother used to say, he was then "looking for bear".

I have read comments about this tragedy all over the internet and am perplexed when I see commenters say to just do whatever the officer tells you to do...irregardless of whether it's lawful (e.g. put the cig out). Do I face the possibility of being arrested because I don't want to put my cig out in my car? Really? I was taught to question or stand up for what I think is right while being civil. Should I have to now fear arrest? (Yes, I think she was civil up until he reached in her car to pull her out.)

She asked numerous times why she was being apprehended. I did not hear him respond to her until much later. Do we not have that right? Did he have the right to ask her to stop recording and place her cell on her vehicle?

I appreciate and have much respect for LE...but not this character!

Great post - totally agree. Especially about the part where he asked her if she was irritated- well YEAH! DUH! Who likes getting pulled over by the PD?! I understand that traffic laws exist for a reason but it seems pulling her over for failure to signal a lane change was a bit extreme - it didn't appear there was a lot of traffic on the street based on the dashcam video. My SO, ex LEO himself, said there were times they got "creative" in order to pull over a vehicle. Anyway- like you, I don't see a whole lot wrong with her being irritated at being pulled over and with his attitude. I'd have reacted the same way. With that said, I'm still in disbelief that a simple traffic stop turned into such a tragedy for Sandra Bland. Just awful.

 

[kimlynn]

It works. It works a lot and is a popular method of suicide.

http://www.nydailynews.com/life-sty...increasing-u-s-youths-study-article-1.2139767

It used to be pills used by women. Interesting how that has changed. I do notice the picture in the article is a tied bag like you would place over your face vs a noose though.
I think I'll move on from my doubt about the suicide for now because I'm thinking/hoping that there will be further investigation of how she died. IMO

 

[cinsbythesea]

The mugshot. I looked for a death stare. IMO it wasn't a death stare, but she really looked despondent. Devastated, hopeless. It makes me sick. JMO

It looked to me like she had been crying - I see tear marks down her face. I agree with you about the mugshot. And yes- the whole thing is sickening.

 

[katydid23]

Looking at history her risk of attempting suicide was pretty high, which imo means no way should there have been a plastic bag in her cell and she should have been checked on more often/put on suicide watch.

I find it interesting that the publics reaction, and this thread, has gone from ' there's NO WAY she would have ever killed herself' to now saying " HOW could the cops not know she was a suicide risk?'

In her paperwork, she said, in ONE question that she had attempted to OD on pills after she lost a baby last year. Then she was asked if she felt suicidal CURRENTLY, and she said NO. And in the other question about ever tried suicide before, she also said NO.

So I believe that after speaking to her, the mental health worker did not think she was suicidal. It was a judgement call. It turned out to be wrong. but even her friends and family thought she was not a suicide risk.

Sunny Hostin is on CNN right now saying they should have had her checked on every 15 minutes and it is systemic racism that prevented that level of care. :facepalm: Two days ago she was saying it was racist to even consider that a young, vibrant black activist would even consider suicide.

 

[PrimeSuspect]

Wow and three days later.

Hmmmm, i agree, something is not right. :thinking:




How Long Does THC Stay In Your System?

http://www.leafscience.com/2014/04/22/how-long-thc-stay-system/

 

[bluesneakers]

It used to be pills used by women. Interesting how that has changed. I do notice the picture in the article is a tied bag like you would place over your face vs a noose though.
I think I'll move on from my doubt about the suicide for now because I'm thinking/hoping that there will be further investigation of how she died. IMO

Maybe it just makes a better visual?

IMO one reason it's changing because pills are less reliable and if you get caught ODing but not completing suicide you are in for a lot of attention and an involuntary psych hold.

 

[nomoresorrow]

Originally Posted by katydid23:
"And I hope her family spokesman STOP trying to sell such a ridiculous accusation to the public. "

It wasn't the family spokesman who started or perpetuated this story - it erupted on Twitter. <modsnip>

MO ~

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

I don't know. It seems if she placed it over a bar or rod it would break with her weight even with her feet supported, and if she wrapped it around her neck (in spite of determination) the instinct to breathe would win out. Very strange IMO

Robin Williams hung himself on a door and he was slumped on the floor. He could have stood up.. That designer... same thing..

If people want to die they die. They don't help themselves. That instinct only works when you don't want to die. After seeing some cases here, and hearing that " she was not bad enough to kill herself" thing over and over... I know that you never ever really know someone. Leanne Bearden came home from a trip around the world and hung herself in a neighbors tree.

I believe she killed herself. I get that people don't want to believe it, but that is what seems to have happened.

 

[kimlynn]

Maybe it just makes a better visual?

IMO one reason it's changing because pills are less reliable and if you get caught ODing but not completing suicide you are in for a lot of attention and an involuntary psych hold.

Good points. Still hoping for more investigation though.

 

[katydid23]

Hmmmm, i agree, something is not right. :thinking:

Pot can show up in a drug test weeks later.

 

[desertmama]

I was wondering about the phone calls Sandra made. Could she make a call whenever she wanted? And were those collect calls?

 

[bluesneakers]

I find it interesting that the publics reaction, and this thread, has gone from ' there's NO WAY she would have ever killed herself' to now saying " HOW could the cops not know she was a suicide risk?'

In her paperwork, she said, in ONE question that she had attempted to OD on pills after she lost a baby last year. Then she was asked if she felt suicidal CURRENTLY, and she said NO. And in the other question about ever tried suicide before, she also said NO.

So I believe that after speaking to her, the mental health worker did not think she was suicidal. It was a judgement call. It turned out to be wrong. but even her friends and family thought she was not a suicide risk.

Sunny Hostin is on CNN right now saying they should have had her checked on every 15 minutes and it is systemic racism that prevented that level of care. :facepalm: Two days ago she was saying it was racist to even consider that a young, vibrant black activist would even consider suicide.

Did she speak to a psychiatrist or mental health worker? A professional should have identified her risk factors despite what she was saying in the moment and taken proper precautions.

 

[kimlynn]

Robin Williams hung himself on a door and he was slumped on the floor. He could have stood up.. That designer... same thing..

If people want to die they die. They don't help themselves. That instinct only works when you don't want to die. After seeing some cases here, and hearing that " she was not bad enough to kill herself" thing over and over... I know that you never ever really know someone. Leanne Bearden came home from a trip around the world and hung herself in a neighbors tree.

I believe she killed herself. I get that people don't want to believe it, but that is what seems to have happened.

Did he use a plastic bag. Serious question as I don't recall. It isn't that I don't want to believe it...I'm questioning the durability of the bag.
Some are calling it industrial but still....

Eta I'll check back later. Have to run for a bit.

 

[bluesneakers]

Good points. Still hoping for more investigation though.

Oh, me too. I'm especially curious about her epilepsy. Could she have had a seizure in the cell? Are seizures ever fatal?