TX - Sandra Bland, 28, found dead in jail cell, Waller County, 13 July 2015 #2

[BellaVita]

The first couple of times I saw it it really upset me. He is suppossed to the pro - he should know and use deescalating techniques - they work ! He was totally out of control , " I am gonna light you up"--nausating

I have epilepsy "good" - that is just not ok behavior for a hypothetical pro - I hope he is never running around with a gun or a car with blue lights on it, or handcuffs -- he is scary , patholgoical power and control freak

like much we have all observed in the last 9 months, all over the country, the mumber of rotten apples is out of control --the stuff the last 9 months are folks from all departments all over the country - the only conclusion one can come to is cell phones are bringing a very serious issue to the forefront

I also pondered if a lot of cops dont watch much news - after Ferguson and Trevon, and the almost nightly new video taped hideous behaovr from LE - I began to conclude how on earth can you folks not know , that the days of abusing your power, lying on your reports, falsely arresting people are over
and........................much of the populace-- watching video after video of this nonsense certainly does not make me feel inclined to just gernerally respect them----

BBM: Who abused their power, lied on their reports, or falsely arrested anybody in Ferguson? All I have to say is when somebody goes looking for trouble, he/she will most often find it.

The behavior of many nauseates me and most often, it is not the cops.

 

[CARIIS]

newer video

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2015/07/28/sandra-bland-waller-county-texas-jail-vdeo/30801271/

 

[human]

Just for the sake of discussion, what responsibility (if any) does a person in jail have for their own well being?

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I believe there is a report listed above that cites the jail.

 

[human]

I cannot believe how people support behavior like this from LE. Even LE think they should rise above their emotions. There have been numerous listings supporting the civility of the pros.

As a teacher, I was not allowed to lose it with mouthy students.

They train us how to respond.

Can you imagine the outcry if a teacher acted that way to students?

 

[Night-owl]

I believe there is a report listed above that cites the jail.

The jail was negligent in not performing the proper timely checks. Someone should have flagged the whole "suicidal not suicidal" thing for more inquiry.

My question is what (if any) are the responsibilities of a person in jail for their own well being.

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[scmom]

Just wondering how a teacher is taught to respond to being physically assaulted by a student. Anyone know?

 

[Night-owl]

Just wondering how a teacher is taught to respond to being physically assaulted by a student. Anyone know?

I think they are supposed to call the police?

Ironic, isn't it? [emoji52]

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[CARIIS]

BBM: Who abused their power, lied on their reports, or falsely arrested anybody in Ferguson? All I have to say is when somebody goes looking for trouble, he/she will most often find it.

The behavior of many nauseates me and most often, it is not the cops.

The abuse of power being referred to here was with Sandra:

Elton R. Mathis, the county’s district attorney, said he was “not happy” about what he had seen on the videotape from the trooper’s dashboard camera. Mr. Wolfe, the Hempstead mayor, said he was “very, very upset” by it. The State Department of Public Safety has said the trooper violated protocol.

No official here is defending the trooper’s behavior.

In his report he claimed

“I tried to de-escalate her, and it wasn’t working at all,”- I tried talking to her, trying to calm her down, and that was not working. did anyone see any of that on the video?

“I’m going to yank you out of here,”

Details of the confrontation were not included in the arrest warrant written by Encinia, which officials released Tuesday, 11 days after the arrest — and eight days after Bland’s death in the Waller County Jail.
( nor does it mention the Taser, nor does it elaborate on why Encinia ordered Bland out of the vehicle.)

Bland is heard saying that the officer “just slammed my head to the ground.”

If you recall they got caught messing around with the tape and had to release another version. The part that seem to vanish was :

the dashcam video had been edited from its original form...t.he issues were most pronounced in a portion of the video where Encinia can be heard speaking to someone on the phone about the incident. In the video, a tow truck operator is seen walking out of the frame of the video, then that portion of the video plays again.

“There are questions that need to be answered as it relates to the arrest,” noted West. “Regardless of the situation, the DPS state trooper has an obligation to exhibit professionalism and be courteous,” said DPS Director Steve McCraw. “That did not happen in this situation.”

— Two Texas lawmakers said Sandra Bland should have never been arrested after watching the video of the traffic stop

shows Encinia losing his temper

“The problem here is, he’s the one who escalated everything,” Harrington said. “Dragging her out of the car is crazy.”

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2015/07/21/much-too-early-to-call-jail-cell-hanging-death-of-sandra-bland-suicide-da-says/

http://www.texastribune.org/2015/07/21/waller-county-press-conference/

 

[KaaBoom]

The car runs a stop sign BUT HE DOESN"T SEE IT? Yet He immediately turns around in the same place she ran it and speeds up to her???? :laughcry:

He charged her with failure to use her turn signal. He did NOT charge her with running a stop sign, or even mention her running a stop sign. I think that is a better indication of what he saw.

 

[katydid23]

The abuse of power being referred to here was with Sandra:

Elton R. Mathis, the county’s district attorney, said he was “not happy” about what he had seen on the videotape from the trooper’s dashboard camera. Mr. Wolfe, the Hempstead mayor, said he was “very, very upset” by it. The State Department of Public Safety has said the trooper violated protocol.

No official here is defending the trooper’s behavior.

In his report he claimed

“I tried to de-escalate her, and it wasn’t working at all,”- I tried talking to her, trying to calm her down, and that was not working. did anyone see any of that on the video?

“I’m going to yank you out of here,”

Details of the confrontation were not included in the arrest warrant written by Encinia, which officials released Tuesday, 11 days after the arrest — and eight days after Bland’s death in the Waller County Jail.
( nor does it mention the Taser, nor does it elaborate on why Encinia ordered Bland out of the vehicle.)

Bland is heard saying that the officer “just slammed my head to the ground.”

If you recall they got caught messing around with the tape and had to release another version. The part that seem to vanish was :

the dashcam video had been edited from its original form...t.he issues were most pronounced in a portion of the video where Encinia can be heard speaking to someone on the phone about the incident. In the video, a tow truck operator is seen walking out of the frame of the video, then that portion of the video plays again.


“There are questions that need to be answered as it relates to the arrest,” noted West. “Regardless of the situation, the DPS state trooper has an obligation to exhibit professionalism and be courteous,” said DPS Director Steve McCraw. “That did not happen in this situation.”

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...anging-death-of-sandra-bland-suicide-da-says/

They did not get 'caught' messing with the tape. The first one they released had a glitch, which was clearly and obviously evident...it had an extra loop thing...and it was a defective tape. but there was nothing on it that was relevant to the traffic stop. And nothing from the tape 'vanished' other than the relooping portions. Glitches like that happen in digital downloads. It is nothing nefarious. Saying things like that are just like the similar accusations about the mugshot. Just unfounded and darn right silly, imo

 

[Confusion]

The jail was negligent in not performing the proper timely checks. Someone should have flagged the whole "suicidal not suicidal" thing for more inquiry.

My question is what (if any) are the responsibilities of a person in jail for their own well being.

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I'm going to try to write this as politely as I can, but I apologize if it doesn't come across that way in writing.

If people suffering from mental illnesses were always able to be responsible for their own well-being, there wouldn't need to be all of the rules in place for those in positions of authority to do so. In a more perfect world, people suffering from depression would tell someone when they were at risk and ask for help (in a perfect world there'd be no mental illness or need for jails.) Unfortunately, depression itself can make it hard to open up to anyone else, hard to believe that anything will make them feel better, hard to become motivated to seek out someone to help, or do even things they know they need to do for their own good (eat, sleep, bathe, etc.)

Because of these things, in addition to the added stress caused by being incarcerated, those who are in charge are supposedly taught to recognize the signs and symptoms and manage things accordingly. That means that someone who is a high risk at the time of arrest should be evaluated to see if they need hospitalization/suicide watch/medication, someone already in custody showing signs/symptoms should be monitored closely (and have an evaluation scheduled in a timely fashion.) If a prisoner has been prescribed medication for a mental illness, someone should be making sure it is being taken as prescribed for the safety of all. If those in charge handle their responsibilities, the person with the mental illness will be much more capable of handling his/her responsibilities too.

My guess is that most people who say she is totally responsible for her own death have probably never gone through severe clinical depression.

MOO

 

[KaaBoom]

Exactly but that doesn't seem to matter at all. And it certainly shows he 'wasn't out to get her' when he was only going to give her a warning ticket. I read the transcript posted and it seems he was doing everything he knew to de-escalate the situation at first. Frankly, I don't think there is anything he could have done that day to settle her down.

The best way he could have de-escalated the situation would have been to say, Here is your warning. You are free to go. Just like he did with the previous driver.

 

[Elisaa444]

I don't know how anyone can believe a single word that comes out of his mouth.

This is a scary proposition that I see many people stating in one form or another. There should be absolutely no reason to back down when one is violating your constitutional rights. If we begin meekly acquiescing when our rights are being violated it will only lead to more egregious violation of rights. Once society begins accepting it, like a good number already have, it is hard to correct.

BBM

Exactly. Don't worry I am not and will never be one to accept such.

As I've already stated, I have several close relatives that are in LE and have been since I was born. It goes without saying I was taught very young how important LEO's are to our communities and to respect them. I do respect them and I'm extremely thankful to the women and men who put their lives on the line to serve and protect. But I was also equally taught to stand up for myself.

With that said, I do not agree in any way shape or form, with how BE handled this traffic stop. I found his behavior offense to say the least.

I would have been Sandra Bland as far as when he asked her to please put her cigarette out. (imo where BE chose to escalate the stop..the stop that should have been over) She didn't curse him nor refuse. Asking a question, last time I checked, is not unreasonable. Especially since she wasn't questioning a "lawful order."

But nooo, I keep reading online where people are saying "stupid, crazy woman is your cigarette that important?" No, people it is not and the cigarette wasn't the point IMO. She simply asked WHY and IMO she did because she was likely thinking that what she was doing is not unlawful ..and oh she was right. Maybe thinking really why is he asking me to do this. She could have really wanted to know. Perhaps, she was thinking "is he trying to get me for something else?" I can go on and on speculating as to what her possible reasons were to asking, but I won't. Some can speculate she was just trying to argue with him and perhaps get a rise out of him. But just like me that is only speculating which means we're all merely guessing. At the end of the day, IMO, SB asking this question, in a matter-of-fact tone, with no cursing is beyond "OK" and definitely not "crazy" or "provoking" or anything else.

Instead of BE, handing her the warning or ticket and moving ahead with his day he just had to continue this traffic stop that should have been over. IMO, He had to show Sandra Bland "who is boss." Oh no, Sandra Bland was not allowed to ask this LEO a question. Who did she think she was?! He was going to let her know. He was going to show her who would have the last word, JMO. :naughty: ....And we all know how that proceeded to turn out.

BE's reaction to Sandra asking him a question regarding his "polite request" and what occurred thereafter told me all I need to know about him as a LEO. It is my hope that he is no longer in a position to interact with the public unless it is behind a desk ..a position that does not require weapons of any kind. IMO, he is a hot head with a very short fuse which imo doesn't make a good LEO.

I personally wouldn't be combative with a LEO BUT would I have asked a LEO that same question that SB did...YES. (well, if I smoked)

(I mean I would never in a million years expect to be aggressively told to exit my car because of a question I asked. I wouldn't even expect that if I did question a lawful order! Because, you know most motorists totally expect to be told to get out of their car, "yanked out" or even threatened to be "lit up" when you ask the LEO a question to a polite request and not even a lawful order )

You'd think, any professional, stable, non-ego maniac LEO would simply answer the question. He just could have given an explanation as to why he was asking. THEN, if she proceeded to refuse or mouth off at him - that's another thing but that is neither here nor there because as we all know the conversation was stopped by BE. With just one question from Sandra Bland - BE went from making a polite request to giving her an order to exit her vehicle and it continued to get worse from there.

Everything written above is only my opinion.

 

[CARIIS]

I cannot believe how people support behavior like this from LE. Even LE think they should rise above their emotions. There have been numerous listings supporting the civility of the pros.

As a teacher, I was not allowed to lose it with mouthy students.

They train us how to respond.

Can you imagine the outcry if a teacher acted that way to students?

I cannot believe how people support behavior like this from LE me either Human !

'I cant keep up with all the video in the last 9 months of them shooting people in the back, shooting to dealth a mental ill person, slamming the brakes on in a van killing a kid, the one with horse,the one with detective guy just going crazy with a motorist, murdering a child with a fake gun , the one on the moutain,


its numbing and scary

 

[CARIIS]

BBM

Exactly. Don't worry I am not and will never be one to accept such.

As I've already stated, I have several close relatives that are in LE and have been since I was born. It goes without saying I was taught very young how important LEO's are to our communities and to respect them. I do respect them and I'm extremely thankful to the women and men who put their lives on the line to serve and protect. But I was also equally taught to stand up for myself.

With that said, I do not agree in any way shape or form, with how BE handled this traffic stop. I found his behavior offense to say the least.

I would have been Sandra Bland as far as when he asked her to please put her cigarette out. (imo where BE chose to escalate the stop..the stop that should have been over) She didn't curse him nor refuse. Asking a question, last time I checked, is not unreasonable. Especially since she wasn't questioning a "lawful order."

But nooo, I keep reading online where people are saying "stupid, crazy woman is your cigarette that important?" No, people it is not and the cigarette wasn't the point IMO. She simply asked WHY and IMO she did because she was likely thinking that what she was doing is not unlawful ..and oh she was right. Maybe thinking really why is he asking me to do this. She could have really wanted to know. Perhaps, she was thinking "is he trying to get me for something else?" I can go on and on speculating as to what her possible reasons were to asking, but I won't. Some can speculate she was just trying to argue with him and perhaps get a rise out of him. But just like me that is only speculating which means we're all merely guessing. At the end of the day, IMO, SB asking this question, in a matter-of-fact tone, with no cursing is beyond "OK" and definitely not "crazy" or "provoking" or anything else.

Instead of BE, handing her the warning or ticket and moving ahead with his day he just had to continue this traffic stop that should have been over. IMO, He had to show Sandra Bland "who is boss." Oh no, Sandra Bland was not allowed to ask this LEO a question. Who did she think she was?! He was going to let her know. He was going to show her who would have the last word, JMO. :naughty: ....And we all know how that proceeded to turn out.

BE's reaction to Sandra asking him a question regarding his "polite request" and what occurred thereafter told me all I need to know about him as a LEO. It is my hope that he is no longer in a position to interact with the public unless it is behind a desk ..a position that does not require weapons of any kind. IMO, he is a hot head with a very short fuse which imo doesn't make a good LEO.

I personally wouldn't be combative with a LEO BUT would I have asked a LEO that same question that SB did...YES. (well, if I smoked)

(I mean I would never in a million years expect to be aggressively told to exit my car because of a question I asked. I wouldn't even expect that if I did question a lawful order! Because, you know most motorists totally expect to be told to get out of their car, "yanked out" or even threatened to be "lit up" when you ask the LEO a question to a polite request and not even a lawful order )

You'd think, any professional, stable, non-ego maniac LEO would simply answer the question. He just could have given an explanation as to why he was asking. THEN, if she proceeded to refuse or mouth off at him - that's another thing but that is neither here nor there because as we all know the conversation was stopped by BE. With just one question from Sandra Bland - BE went from making a polite request to giving her an order to exit her vehicle and it continued to get worse from there.

Everything written above is only my opinion.

or just say cause I have sinus issues, allergies, whatever

and in a mental health evaluation, they missed , after she tells them she attempted suicide and on her arm, are clearly indications (about 30) that she had been self injuring herself - clearly the poor lady was in pain

 

[KaaBoom]

She wasn't ordered out of the car because she failed to signal a lane change. It was her behavior and attitude, IMO, that was the reason she was ordered out of the car. In just a few seconds she chose to devolve into disrespect, vulgar language, and escalating uncooperativeness. The officer had to get her into a position where he would be safer-- in situations like that, officers have to anticipate that the person may try to pull a gun or weapon and harm them.

No, he did not have to do that. The traffic stop was over. All he had to do was hand her the warning, and tell her she was free to go. But instead he decided to illegally detain her after he was finished. For that he was removed from duty. His supervisors under stand that he was in the wrong.

 

[Montjoy]

I cannot believe how people support behavior like this from LE me either Human !

I know, right? I do actually have a fair bit of sympathy for people who post here and are LEOs, ex-LEOs, or parents of LEOs who have given honorable service to the public. I feel badly for the good LEOs out there -- well, at least, the ones who don't make excuses for the bad ones. But what we've seen here more often than not in threads about the abuse of LE power is that there many who deny systemic abuses of power. It's not unlike those who deny systemic racism. And for what it's worth, just as I would argue that denying racism is a fairly powerful form of racism itself, denying that many (not saying most, but enough for it to be a big problem) LEOs abuse their power is a way of perpetuating that very problem.

For what it's worth I'm withholding any judgment on whether race was a factor in how this played out. The events speak for themselves and are bad enough without attempting to suggest that there was anything other than abusing LEO power that was at play here. But I admit I could be wrong, as the statistics would suggest that there could have been a racial component to SB's mistreatment -- I just don't see any point in going there at this point.

 

[CARIIS]

There is a really good summary (second paragraph) of the last year with LE issues.

It wont cut and paste?

http://journalistsresource.org/stud...e-brutality-race-research-review-statisticsnd, N.Y., the July 2014 death of Eric Garner because of the apparent use of a “chokehold” by an of - See more at: http://journalistsresource.org/stud...search-review-statistics#sthash.mFgjnSfx.dpuf



So we have a sucicde attempt, visible self mutulating and this:

Sandra Bland was emotional and often crying during her three days in jail, an inmate held in the adjacent cell said. Because she was crying, and I could barely understand her, I was like, 'It will be OK. It's OK. Don't cry. You can't be in here forever," Pyle said. "She was like, 'I'm not equipped for this kind of life. I don't need to be here, I don't deserve to be here, I didn't do anything it's all messed up.'"

"I don't think she should have been in the other tank alone by herself,"

So we have staff, walking by a human being who has been crying for three days????



http://abc7chicago.com/news/video-raw-interview-with-sandra-blands-co-inmate/876221/

 

[CARIIS]

I know, right? I do actually have a fair bit of sympathy for people who post here and are LEOs, ex-LEOs, or parents of LEOs who have given honorable service to the public. I feel badly for the good LEOs out there -- well, at least, the ones who don't make excuses for the bad ones. But what we've seen here more often than not in threads about the abuse of LE power is that there many who deny systemic abuses of power. It's not unlike those who deny systemic racism. And for what it's worth, just as I would argue that denying racism is a fairly powerful form of racism itself, denying that many (not saying most, but enough for it to be a big problem) LEOs abuse their power is a way of perpetuating that very problem.

For what it's worth I'm withholding any judgment on whether race was a factor in how this played out. The events speak for themselves and are bad enough without attempting to suggest that there was anything other than abusing LEO power that was at play here. But I admit I could be wrong, as the statistics would suggest that there could have been a racial component to SB's mistreatment -- I just don't see any point in going there at this point.

Just saying, the stop 30 seconds before was a white female. Its the first 2 minutes!

[video=youtube;Dkqw_7mrJnU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dkqw_7mrJnU[/video].

 

[Night-owl]

I'm going to try to write this as politely as I can, but I apologize if it doesn't come across that way in writing.

If people suffering from mental illnesses were always able to be responsible for their own well-being, there wouldn't need to be all of the rules in place for those in positions of authority to do so. In a more perfect world, people suffering from depression would tell someone when they were at risk and ask for help (in a perfect world there'd be no mental illness or need for jails.) Unfortunately, depression itself can make it hard to open up to anyone else, hard to believe that anything will make them feel better, hard to become motivated to seek out someone to help, or do even things they know they need to do for their own good (eat, sleep, bathe, etc.)

Because of these things, in addition to the added stress caused by being incarcerated, those who are in charge are supposedly taught to recognize the signs and symptoms and manage things accordingly. That means that someone who is a high risk at the time of arrest should be evaluated to see if they need hospitalization/suicide watch/medication, someone already in custody showing signs/symptoms should be monitored closely (and have an evaluation scheduled in a timely fashion.) If a prisoner has been prescribed medication for a mental illness, someone should be making sure it is being taken as prescribed for the safety of all. If those in charge handle their responsibilities, the person with the mental illness will be much more capable of handling his/her responsibilities too.

My guess is that most people who say she is totally responsible for her own death have probably never gone through severe clinical depression.

MOO

You come across as a compassionate, thoughtful person. I will try to respond as intelligently as you.

When I look at this whole situation, I try to leave emotions and blame both out of it. It's a tragic loss of life. It didn't need to happen. Obviously, suicide in this situation is not the response of a rational person. I'm not sure SB would say pushed her to doing this. I suspect it would be a long list of things ending with,"... and that arrogant bully cop and now I'm stuck in jail for who knows how long".

Jails, hospitals, treatment centers, etc all have responsibilities to be safe places. I disagree that they can keep a person safe. People determined to do harm to themselves are staggeringly creative. Short of drugging someone with enough Valium that their DNA is in danger of uncoiling and/or 6 point restraints, someone who wants to kill themselves will figure out a way. (This may be an exaggeration to make a point [emoji55]) That level of restraint itself is dehumanizing and traumatic. There isn't even a way to make someone take their meds, as you suggested, even if it is in everyone's best interest. Short of a court order, all you can do is offer the person the medication. They can refuse it. I don't know if that is a good or bad thing. It just is how it is. I will say, when you give up responsibility for yourself and make someone else responsible, it opens the door to a huge potential for abuse.

I've been diagnosed with major depression. I've seriously considered suicide on occasion. Fortunately, between pharmaceutical treatment, good supportive friends and therapy, I live a good life. Even if, in my darkest times, I've thought someone or something was driving me to suicide, I would have been wrong. I didn't choose depression. But my choices are my own.

So I'm well aware of how mental illness warps your thought process. I can talk about anosognosia and responsibility and the sad state of affairs with mental health care in the USA until everyone is looking for that big bottle of valium. There are lots of things that could be better. Lots that should be different.

Mental illness kills people. It's human nature when a tragedy occurs to want to find someone to blame. A great loss = a great villain out there somewhere. That's overly simplistic, and people are doing a disservice to SB, themselves and everyone else to try to distill it down into a black and white situation.






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