TX - Sandra Bland, 28, found dead in jail cell, Waller County, 13 July 2015 #2

[Nova]

Yep, I have been pulled over too many times to even count. Every single ticket I received, was handed to me through the window. 95% through the driver side, 5% passenger side, but all through the windows. The only times I was order out of my car, was a few times when they wanted to search my car. In those cases, I was handcuffed, so I wouldn't have been able to sign a ticket outside.

There is no logical reason to order her out of the car to sign the ticket. That is not police procedure anywhere. As a matter of fact police officers get very upset whenever anyone tries to get out of their car during a traffic stop. The police officer is most safe when the person stays inside their car.

The cop was just messing with Sandra Bland and trying to provoke her when he ordered her out of the car.

Dude! Your life is seriously more exciting than mine!

I was told decades ago that one should always step out of the car when stopped, so that the officer(s) can see one isn't armed. So the next time I was stopped (expired registration sticker on a borrowed car), I turned off the ignition and got out as the officers approached. I ended up facing a female officer almost a foot shorter than I. (I'm 6'3".) And I SAW the flash of fear in her eyes, even though she recovered immediately as I stepped back from her with my open hands clearly visible.

I got to take a drunk test for my stupidity (I wasn't drunk), but even so, I wasn't abused or disrespected. I did learn a lesson about getting out of the car when stopped.

So, yeah, I have to wonder why the cop in question wanted Ms. Bland out of that car...

 

[ninij9]

That's what my mom said too. I crocheted around that age as well but I've forgotten how to tie a slipknot, assuming I learned how back then.

I want to say if you are a person that has entertained suicide in the past your suicide fantasies would include the means to do it I suppose. JMO

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[kimlynn]

The only time I had to get out of my car was when they towed it for an expired tag, but when I saw the tow truck arriving I knew that's what was going to happen so he never ordered me to get out. I waited until he explained what was happening and asked "Do I get out of the car now?" I've always assumed getting out meant arrest.

Or at least a pat down. IMO

 

[bluesneakers]

Who says cops don't want to interact with people? Quite the opposite. The cops I know LOVE people and want to help which is why they put on their badge each day. I know it is hard for you to believe but I have seen it with my own eyes. I don't know any cops that have Bullet of the Month clubs so we must have hung around with different precincts.

And when you say that citizens SHOULDNT be the enemy, I totally agree. But sadly enough, many times they are.

And as long as cops take the attitude that citizens are the enemy more tragedies will ensue.

 

[bluesneakers]

Dude! Your life is seriously more exciting than mine!

I was told decades ago that one should always step out of the car when stopped, so that the officer(s) can see one isn't armed. So the next time I was stopped (expired registration sticker on a borrowed car), I turned off the ignition and got out as the officers approached. I ended up facing a female officer almost a foot shorter than I. (I'm 6'3".) And I SAW the flash of fear in her eyes, even though she recovered immediately as I stepped back from her with my open hands clearly visible.

I got to take a drunk test for my stupidity (I wasn't drunk), but even so, I wasn't abused or disrespected. I did learn a lesson about getting out of the car when stopped.

So, yeah, I have to wonder why the cop in question wanted Ms. Bland out of that car...

I was told decades ago that if you get out of your car you will get shot!

 

[margarita25]

But supposedly at that point she was not going to jail. She was just being handed a warning. So that is not relevant.

My post was two part (see the word "also"), meaning I've seen LE request this on COPS upon the initial encounter in addition to the prejail request...(actually, I've also been asked to put out my cigarette when pulled over. I am sure to dispose of the butt properly, so as to not get a ticket for littering.)

 

[Tricia]

I am trying to have patience here.

Some of what you are talking about is relevant to this situation but please STOP with personal stories about what happened to you.

Stop with the talk of students and teachers. Yes it is important but this thread is about SANDRA BLAND and her case directly.

I am loath to uapprove posts that are well written and can be shown to have some relevance to this case BUT I will if you all don't stop. I cannot let you discuss other areas that are not related directly to Sandra's case. Again, If I do let you steer the conversation in this direction then within 10 minutes this thread is off the rails.

Thank You

 

[IzzyBlanche]

Sandra Bland's "mistake" was to act like a first-class citizen of a free country. She was punished for that by the side of the road in Texas, and now she is dead.

When she was pulled over in Prairie View she didn't make nice, act surprised and apologetic, or flirt. She didn't pretend she was happy for the chance to visit with an officer who, to judge by his exchange with another young woman driver at the beginning of the arrest video, liked to get chatty. She looked straight ahead and, when asked, said she was irritated to have her day interrupted by a (disputable and very minor) traffic infraction. She asked the officer to get on with writing her ticket.

She spoke back to him, crisply and rationally. She acted as if she had rights. She acted as if there were limits to the cop's authority. He punished her by knocking away the limits, turning his role into a Kafka-esque game. "You're under arrest." "For what?" "For resisting arrest." Suddenly, it seemed, he could do whatever occurred to him and call it law enforcement.

***

One of the oldest and most central American principles is supposed to be this: in a free society, an officer of the state has no arbitrary, discretionary, or personal power over you. That is what the phrase "rule of law, not rule by men" means if it means anything.

That is the theory. A citizen doesn't owe a police officer any more social deference or personal warmth than she owes the mail carrier. Sometimes it's nice to be nice, of course; but there is a perfect right to be indifferent, irritated, even rude, while you each go about your business.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jedediah-purdy/sandra-bland-citizen_b_7874568.html

 

[kimlynn]

So is the investigation still ongoing as far as the death of SB? I know the ME ruled suicide but were they still waiting on some of the toxicology?

I'm hoping that an investigation of BE will happen. IMO

 

[KaaBoom]

He said he was in the middle of the street which means he is in moving traffic. So that is why he responded on radio that he wanted to get her out and explain what was going on because he wanted to get out of the street. It is his right to do so.

That was his choice, to be where he was. Earlier he had approached her car and talked to her on the passenger side. He could have done that again if he was concerned about traffic. But it was not a real issue, since he had already parked his car blocking the traffic. That was just more of his BS, to justify his escalation of the situation. There is no legitimate reason for a LEO to order a driver out of the car, just to hand her a warning citation.

 

[ninij9]

(I have not read all the posts here or posted at all on this thread, but just wanted to mention fwiw re: the smoking discussion that on the show COPS, in both the older and newer episodes I've seen, it seems I have observed many instances where the policeman asks the person to put out their cigarette; also, if the person asks if they can please smoke a cigarette, say before they go to jail, the cops always says no, from what I've seen, jmo.)

Technically a cigarette can be used against an officer so it could be a safety issue. I'm not speaking to this particular incident, just in general. Jmo

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[Deleted member 39678]

So is the investigation still ongoing as far as the death of SB? I know the ME ruled suicide but were they still waiting on some of the toxicology?

I'm hoping that an investigation of BE will happen. IMO

I read that the Texas Rangers are the lead in this investigation and that the FBI is also investigating.

I hope that everyone involved in this case is looked at. From the victim to the jailhouse janitor.

JMO

 

[Elisaa444]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jedediah-purdy/sandra-bland-citizen_b_7874568.html

Thanks for this link. I enjoyed reading this article. I second every word in this article.

 

[IzzyBlanche]

I want to say if you are a person that has entertained suicide in the past your suicide fantasies would include the means to do it I suppose. JMO

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Yeah, could be, but hanging/strangulation is a distant third of the most common methods employed by females.

Firearms are still the most common method for suicide (51.6%), however when we break down the statistics by gender, we see that women use poisoning more frequently than firearms.

http://www.suicide.org/suicide-statistics.html

Apparently Sandra had previously attempted suicide with pills, in line with these statistics. I realize she wouldn't have access to pills in jail (although according to officials she MIGHT have had access to a huge supply of marijuana ) but it still seems strange to me that she would have chosen to end her life that way.

In fact it still seems strange to me that the chose to end her life at all, and I do understand the depressive mindset having suffered it myself.

Again not saying I don't believe she committed suicide but I can't make sense of it to my own satisfaction.

 

[EllieBee]

Technically a cigarette can be used against an officer so it could be a safety issue. I'm not speaking to this particular incident, just in general. Jmo

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As Bessie earlier said, her fingernails would be a bigger threat than a lit ciggie. But would she be required to cut them prior to further contact with a police officer?

 

[PrimeSuspect]

It's interesting that Sandra has had a problem with not having auto insurance also.


March of 2013 – Bland was stopped in Crestwood Township while driving a 2013 Cadillac DeVille and received two citations – for speeding 21-25 mph above the limit, and for operating an uninsured motor vehicle. She was fined $200, which – according to Cook County Court records – has not been paid.

February of 2014 – Bland was stopped by Lombard Police and charged with operating an uninsured motor vehicle and driving with expired license plates. She was convicted in both charges and fined, but by May of 2014 court records show that she still owed $2,769.00 in fines, and the judge ordered that the Illinois Secretary of State be notified of her failure to pay

March 3, 2014 – Naperville Police cited Bland for operating an uninsured motor vehicle. Court records show she was ordered to pay a fine, but was cited twice for failure to pay. In June of 2014 the court ordered that the Illinois Secretary of State be notified, and the docket lists a $1,313.00 balance still due.

March 8, 2014 – Approximately five days after her stop in Naperville, Bland was stopped by police in Lombard and charged with two counts of driving under the influence; speeding 15-20 mph over the speed limit; improper lane usage; disobeying a traffic control signal; failing to signal when changing lanes; driving on a suspended license, and operating an uninsured motor vehicle. The court found her guilty of one DUI charge, and all the other charges were dismissed. She received court supervision and was fined, and court records show that she still owes $3,132.00 in this case. (A spokesman with the Illinois Secretary of State’s office says Bland’s driver’s license was automatically suspended for six months – until November of 2014 – as a result of this DUI conviction.)

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That shows a total disregard for buying necessary auto insurance.
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http://www.nbcchicago.com/investiga...revious-Encounters-With-Police-316025661.html

I wonder if BE will come out smelling of roses once the investigation is completed, which I hope, is thorough and without bias.

 

[bluesneakers]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jedediah-purdy/sandra-bland-citizen_b_7874568.html

Thank you for sharing this.

Sandra Bland, who seems to have been plenty cynical about law enforcement even before she was pulled over, took this principle for real when it counted most. In being willing to take the country's theory of itself at face value, she was more of a patriot than all of us who compose a smile when we see blue lights flashing behind us.

 

[ninij9]

Yeah, could be, but hanging/strangulation is a distant third of the most common methods employed by females.



http://www.suicide.org/suicide-statistics.html

Apparently Sandra had previously attempted suicide with pills, in line with these statistics. I realize she wouldn't have access to pills in jail (although according to officials she MIGHT have had access to a huge supply of marijuana ) but it still seems strange to me that she would have chosen to end her life that way.

In fact it still seems strange to me that the chose to end her life at all, and I do understand the depressive mindset having suffered it myself.

Again not saying I don't believe she committed suicide but I can't make sense of it to my own satisfaction.

Yes, that's why I mentioned it in general and not pertaining to her case exactly. I have read that some depressed people fantasize elaborately about the ways and means to achieve suicide.

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[desertmama]

I don't know if this has been touched on already, but on the jail intake form, a few questions down from the suicidal thoughts question, was a question about self-harming. Was there visual evidence such as cuts on arms etc. The answer was no.

Also just a word on people who self-harm, sometimes known as "cutters". They hide it. They don't wear sleeveless dresses with dozens of cuts in various

stages of healing. It just doesn't happen.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

Here's a link about the Texas Rangers and the FBI.

The Texas Rangers, a division of the state Department of Public Safety, have launched an investigation into Bland’s death, with the supervision of the FBI. “Our hearts and prayers remain with the Bland family for their tragic loss,” Texas Gov. Greg Abbott (R) said in a statement Wednesday. “The family deserves answers. The Texas Rangers, working in coordination with the FBI, will conduct a full and thorough investigation that will deliver those answers and work toward the ultimate goal of ensuring justice in this case.”

Attorney General Loretta Lynch said Wednesday that the FBI was continuing to monitor the Sandra Bland situation. She said that federal officials were awaiting the results from ongoing investigations being carried out by local authorities in Texas.

I think that with the Attorney General of the United States backing the FBI in this case, I'm confident that a through and competent investigation will be accomplished.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...anging-death-of-sandra-bland-suicide-da-says/