TX - Sandra Bland, 28, found dead in jail cell, Waller County, 13 July 2015 #2

[Deleted member 39678]

I wonder if BE will come out smelling of roses once the investigation is completed, which I hope, is thorough and without bias.

I doubt he will come out "smelling of roses" no matter what the Texas Rangers, FBI and maybe the courts decide is the truth. JMO

 

[IzzyBlanche]

Here's a link about the Texas Rangers and the FBI.



I think that with the Attorney General of the United States backing the FBI in this case, I'm confident that a through and competent investigation will be accomplished.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...anging-death-of-sandra-bland-suicide-da-says/

I hope you are right. A thorough, competent, and transparent investigation is exactly what is needed to allay at least some of the volatility.

 

[katydid23]

And as long as cops take the attitude that citizens are the enemy more tragedies will ensue.

How is that any different than the prevailing attitude here, that the 'cops are the enemy?' Is it fine for citizens to treat the cops with hostility and rage, as if they are the enemy, MEANWHILE cops are supposed to ignore that?

Many of you are proudly admitting that you see the cops as your enemy. But then you say above, ' as long as cops take the attitude that citizens are the enemy....' LOL

I see a lot of hypocrisy concerning some peoples view of the police. They hate them, see them as their enemies, their 'servants', see them as abusive, as liars, as cold blooded killers, then they wonder why cops have little trust in drivers during a traffic stop? LOL

 

[katydid23]

I don't know if this has been touched on already, but on the jail intake form, a few questions down from the suicidal thoughts question, was a question about self-harming. Was there visual evidence such as cuts on arms etc. The answer was no.

Also just a word on people who self-harm, sometimes known as "cutters". They hide it. They don't wear sleeveless dresses with dozens of cuts in various

stages of healing. It just doesn't happen.

There were two autopsies. I doubt that the medical examiner lied about their findings especially knowing their was another one coming behind them.

 

[EllieBee]

Thanks for this link. I enjoyed reading this article. I second every word in this article.

Sandra Bland's "mistake" was to act like a first-class citizen of a free country. She was punished for that by the side of the road in Texas, and now she is dead.

When she was pulled over in Prairie View she didn't make nice, act surprised and apologetic, or flirt. She didn't pretend she was happy for the chance to visit with an officer who, to judge by his exchange with another young woman driver at the beginning of the arrest video, liked to get chatty. She looked straight ahead and, when asked, said she was irritated to have her day interrupted by a (disputable and very minor) traffic infraction. She asked the officer to get on with writing her ticket.

From the above-referenced HuffPo article

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jedediah-purdy/sandra-bland-citizen_b_7874568.html

 

[Montjoy]

Technically a cigarette can be used against an officer so it could be a safety issue. I'm not speaking to this particular incident, just in general. Jmo

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This is rather silly though, isn't it? My keys, my hands, the tools I keep in my car, my pens, my laptop -- I mean, if we're going to count a cigarette as a safety issue, well, what is the standard? It just seems crazy to me. I got a license for being a lifeguard when I was 16 or 17, I forget now, but it required some self defense training -- this was for what was called a Bronze Cross. Reading your post I was set aback in that I was expected to deal with people breaking the law and a cigarette would have been the least of my safety issues. I mean, come on, let's have some perspective here.

 

[IzzyBlanche]

Yes, that's why I mentioned it in general and not pertaining to her case exactly. I have read that some depressed people fantasize elaborately about the ways and means to achieve suicide.

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I didn't think you were mentioning it pertaining to her case exactly. Just for clarification. Thanks for the discussion.

 

[ninij9]

As Bessie earlier said, her fingernails would be a bigger threat than a lit ciggie. But would she be required to cut them prior to further contact with a police officer?

Valid point, I was just replying to the lit cigarette aspect though. IMO

She was being argumentative and she had a lit cigarette, he may have wanted to neutralize that avenue of threat.
In my opinion they both behaved badly. She was on the defensive and was definitely practicing a passive form of civil disobedience. She could have complied with his requests and very soon would have been on her way. She forced him to repeat every request between 6 and 10 times each. She could have filed a complaint at a later date.
Also, He was acting all wrong and his ego allowed her baiting tactics to irritate him into action. He failed to keep his cool. She failed to follow requests. What we have here is a giant epic fail between to facets of society that badly needs to trust each other again, not grow farther apart.

I was raised to fear and respect LE. Never to speak out of line, and also call them sir or ma'am. That breaking laws means consequences. Cops are scary dudes because they put their lives on the line every single day. They never know what the hell they will get on a pullover. Could get a mouth full of lead
Anyway, still scared to post here on this steroid charged thread. Shout out to any LE families here on WS. Thank you for all you do to keep me and mine safe. I have a few cousins on the job. Blue ribbons on my door, but I still want to treat each case as a separate occurrence. Some are LE fault, some are not. Jmo this was both of their faults.
Back to the lurk shack.

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[CoolJ]

I don't believe it is police culture. I think it is partially the intense stress that comes from the job, and the cynicism that comes from interacting with the dregs of our society on a continuos basis, day after day. Cops have a high divorce rate and a high suicide rate. That is what comes from the job. it is not from their training, it is from their daily work experiences, imo. They see and experience tragedy and hopelessness every day. Then they are supposed to compartmentalize it to protect their mental health. That only works for so long. Then the stress factor multiplies. And that is why cops are sympathetic when they see other cops lose their cool during a stop. Because they know it can happen to any of them and it does not mean they are 'bad'--IMO

BBM
I believe this. I believe some of the good guys can get caught up in a situation that ends badly.

I also believe that there is a possibility the way they are being trained to conduct business is leading to more stress on the job. I wonder if they were trained a little differently could it make it a better, more rewarding and less stressful job?

I think they are being trained to expect every person they encounter as hostile and potentially dangerous. They don't need to think that way to be effective. At least in my opinion. This is coming from someone who doesn't know much at all about LE. But I do know there are ways to lower stress levels no matter what your profession.

I think it is at least worth considering.

All of the above is definitely JMO.

 

[katydid23]

This is rather silly though, isn't it? My keys, my hands, the tools I keep in my car, my pens, my laptop -- I mean, if we're going to count a cigarette as a safety issue, well, what is the standard? It just seems crazy to me. I got a license for being a lifeguard when I was 16 or 17, I forget now, but it required some self defense training -- this was for what was called a Bronze Cross. Reading your post I was set aback in that I was expected to deal with people breaking the law and a cigarette would have been the least of my safety issues. I mean, come on, let's have some perspective here.

Why is it silly? Cops have been burned. I have linked articles already. It is just one more thing they want to negate to control the environment. I am sure you like having control of your classroom. Do you ask for the cells to be put away, no smoking, or talking?

A traffic stop or interaction is similar. Cops need to have control of the situation because they are doing hundreds of these stops. It may not seem like a big deal to the driver, who cares. But to the overall protocol of an officers routine, it makes sense. It is hard to explain unless you are in that mindset of trying to keep everything safe.

 

[kimlynn]

Valid point, I was just replying to the lit cigarette aspect though. IMO

She was being argumentative and she had a lit cigarette, he may have wanted to neutralize that avenue of threat.
In my opinion they both behaved badly. She was on the defensive and was definitely practicing a passive form of civil disobedience. She could have complied with his requests and very soon would have been on her way. She forced him to repeat every request between 6 and 10 times each. She could have filed a complaint at a later date.
Also, He was acting all wrong and his ego allowed her baiting tactics to irritate him into action. He failed to keep his cool. She failed to follow requests. What we have here is a giant epic fail between to facets of society that badly needs to trust each other again, not grow farther apart.

I was raised to fear and respect LE. Never to speak out of line, and also call them sir or ma'am. That breaking laws means consequences. Cops are scary dudes because they put their lives on the line every single day. They never know what the hell they will get on a pullover. Could get a mouth full of lead
Anyway, still scared to post here on this steroid charged thread. Shout out to any LE families here on WS. Thank you for all you do to keep me and mine safe. I have a few cousins on the job. Blue ribbons on my door, but I still want to treat each case as a separate occurrence. Some are LE fault, some are not. Jmo this was both there faults.
Back to the lurk shack.

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She wasn't argumentative before he asked her to put out her cigarette.And actually she wasn't argumentative when he asked her to put out her smoke. She answered his questions and gave him the documents as asked. IMO

 

[desertmama]

There were two autopsies. I doubt that the medical examiner lied about their findings especially knowing their was another one coming behind them.

I'm just wondering how nobody except the coroner noticed dozens of cuts in various stages of healing on an exposed arm.

 

[KateB]

This was published a month before Sandra Bland's arrest and death.
Statistics for civil lawsuit payouts for 10 big cities in the US are cited. The amount of money paid to these victims or their families is staggering.

We Pay A Shocking Amount For Police Misconduct, And Cops Want Us Just To Accept It. We Shouldn't.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/05/29/police-misconduct-settlements_n_7423386.html

There is no easy solution for this deeply entrenched problem. Speaking out with your voice and your vote is a start. Others have suggested a reform that would shift some financial liability in civil lawsuits back onto police -- who are, after all, responsible for the actions in question.

But if we continue to do nothing, we are giving tacit approval to a relationship in which taxpayers sometimes end up being victimized twice -- both as the direct casualties of police misconduct and the unwilling enablers who must eventually pay for that misconduct.

 

[Montjoy]

Why is it silly?

rsbm

Because she was sitting in her car. She wasn't standing beside the leo; she was in a defensive and subordinate position. Do I need to spell it out further?

 

[bluesneakers]

Those were your words, I just switched citizens and cops.

How is that any different than the prevailing attitude here, that the 'cops are the enemy?' Is it fine for citizens to treat the cops with hostility and rage, as if they are the enemy, MEANWHILE cops are supposed to ignore that?

Many of you are proudly admitting that you see the cops as your enemy. But then you say above, ' as long as cops take the attitude that citizens are the enemy....' LOL

I see a lot of hypocrisy concerning some peoples view of the police. They hate them, see them as their enemies, their 'servants', see them as abusive, as liars, as cold blooded killers, then they wonder why cops have little trust in drivers during a traffic stop? LOL

 

[IzzyBlanche]

Valid point, I was just replying to the lit cigarette aspect though. IMO

She was being argumentative and she had a lit cigarette, he may have wanted to neutralize that avenue of threat.

Respectfully snipped and BBM for focus:

I understand that you were speaking of the lit cigarette in general terms.

It's my perception though, that she didn't get argumentative until after he asked her to put it out and refused to answer her IMO reasonable question of why did she have to.

May I ask what you thought was argumentative?

I can't believe I am saying this, but I feel compelled to provide this disclaimer: I am genuinely interested in your views. This is not a gotcha question. Maybe you saw something I didn't that would provide me with a completely different perspective than what I saw.

 

[KateB]

I not sure what's allowed on this thread about racism. If we can discuss legacy racism in Waller County Texas can we discuss it in more general terms?

I see a conflict from what a moderator has said and what a forum coordinator is posting.

I'd like some kind of ruling on this subject.

Thanks.

Speaking about the history of the law enforcement agency under investigation in Sandy's case is not general discussion about racism. This is the sheriff that is going to be overseeing the investigation into the violations of the jail he oversees. Please address any other concerns in PM or alert a mod. Thanks.

 

[ninij9]

This is rather silly though, isn't it? My keys, my hands, the tools I keep in my car, my pens, my laptop -- I mean, if we're going to count a cigarette as a safety issue, well, what is the standard? It just seems crazy to me. I got a license for being a lifeguard when I was 16 or 17, I forget now, but it required some self defense training -- this was for what was called a Bronze Cross. Reading your post I was set aback in that I was expected to deal with people breaking the law and a cigarette would have been the least of my safety issues. I mean, come on, let's have some perspective here.

The thought is only silly in your head. Your keys, pens,laptop phone cigarette etc..of all the things you might have had in your hands during a traffic stop would be inadvisable to continue holding when an officer would like to see your hands kept still in a non threatening manner while he is assessing the situation for threat.

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[ninij9]

She wasn't argumentative before he asked her to put out her cigarette.And actually she wasn't argumentative when he asked her to put out her smoke. She answered his questions and gave him the documents as asked. IMO

My perception of video differs from yours. I was immediately shocked by the tone she took with the officer from go.

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[Montjoy]

My perception of video differs from yours. I was immediately shocked by the tone she took with the officer from go.

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Alas, 'tone' is not enough to justify what happened to Sandra. I may not have understood your post completely, so please forgive me if I have made a mistake.