TX - Sandra Bland, 28, found dead in jail cell, Waller County, 13 July 2015 #3

[bwt42]

Sounds like a good idea. When I was growing up, people didn't get thrown in jail for this kind of thing. People went to jail for getting in a fight, driving drunk, starting a fire or robbing someone. They didn't get jailed for failing to have proof of insurance or an expired license or an overdue parking ticket somewhere. For that, you used to get a summons to appear in court, period.

Unfortunately, cities and towns have become reliant on jailing for minor offenses as a way to generate revenue. It has to stop.

How does jailing someone generate revenue? please explain.

 

[BritsKate]

How does jailing someone generate revenue? please explain.

They saw that she had a warrant, and held her for two weeks and then took her in front of a judge. She told them I can't pay this money, so they reduced it to $700. For her, that might as well have been $700,000. What ended up happening was her mom borrowed against her life insurance policy and her sister gave her half her bi-weekly paycheck.

That was two weeks in jail for unpaid traffic tickets. And what the court learned from that, is that, if they send people to jail, they'll probably make money.

http://www.vox.com/2014/8/19/604340...er-on-the-deeply-dysfunctional-ferguson-court

In this way, under the pretext of being tough on crime, state governments can fatten their coffers and fill the jail cells of their corporate benefactors. However, while a flourishing privatized prison system is a financial windfall for corporate investors, it bodes ill for any measures aimed at reforming prisoners and reducing crime.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/john-w-whitehead/prison-privatization_b_1414467.html

But private-supervision fees, which are often significantly higher than what states would charge for equivalent services (many states charge nothing at all), can add substantially to judicial fines, and Wallace notes that companies rely on the threat of jail time to generate collections. Nail worries, too, that competition among probation companies for exclusive contracts with local courts invites corruption.

http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2014/06/23/get-out-of-jail-inc

“These aren’t violent criminals,” says Thomas Harvey, another of the three co-founders of ArchCity Defenders. “These are people who make the same mistakes you or I do — speeding, not wearing a seatbelt, forgetting to get your car inspected on time. The difference is that they don’t have the money to pay the fines. Or they have kids, or jobs that don’t allow them to take time off for two or three court appearances. When you can’t pay the fines, you get fined for that, too. And when you can’t get to court, you get an arrest warrant.”

Arrest warrants are also public information. They can be accessed by potential landlords or employers. So they can prevent someone from getting a job, housing, job training, loans or financial aid. “So they just get sucked into this vortex of debt and despair,” Harvey says.

That means they face much stronger incentives to squeeze their residents with fines, despite the fact that the residents of these towns are the people who are least likely to have the money to pay those fines, the least likely to have an attorney to fight the fines on their behalf, and for whom the consequences of failing to pay the fines can be the most damaging.

Those incentives then get passed on to the judges and prosecutors the towns appoint for their municipal courts, and the police officers they pay to enforce the ordinances. “I was representing a client in a poorer town and was negotiating with a prosecutor who was also the municipal prosecutor in a wealthier town,” Voss says. “He actually told me that if we were in the wealthier town he could cut my client a deal. But he couldn’t do it in the poorer town, because there was more pressure on him to generate revenue.”

Here too, Vatterott agrees with critics like Voss. “I was actually let go as a municipal judge from a town because I wasn’t generating enough revenue,” Vatterott says.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...t-louis-county-missouri-profits-from-poverty/

JPay and other prison bankers collect tens of millions of dollars every year from inmates’ families in fees for basic financial services. To make payments, some forego medical care, skip utility bills and limit contact with their imprisoned relatives, the Center for Public Integrity found in a six-month investigation.

Inmates earn as little as 12 cents per hour in many places, wages that have not increased for decades. The prices they pay for goods to meet their basic needs continue to increase.

By erecting a virtual tollbooth at the prison gate, JPay has become a critical financial conduit for an opaque constellation of vendors that profit from millions of poor families with incarcerated loved ones.

JPay streamlines the flow of cash into prisons, making it easier for corrections agencies to take a cut. Prisons do so directly, by deducting fees and charges before the money hits an inmate’s account. They also allow phone and commissary vendors to charge marked-up prices, then collect a share of the profits generated by these contractors.

http://time.com/3446372/criminal-justice-prisoners-profit/

“As a result of…hyper-incarceration that began in the mid-1970’s, systems of government could no longer afford what they were doing. Essentially, policy makers decided to shift the burden of the costs of prosecution, incarceration and criminal justice management onto the backs of the people it processed.”

While the court fees and fines generate revenue, Harris argues they are also about social control. “The legal justification for creating layers and layers of policies that allow courts to assess fines and fees from traffic tickets to misdemeanors to felony offenses is that jurisdictions need money to run their systems of justice. But in practice—in effect—the system turns into a strict system of control, and this control is over poor people.”

http://www.thenation.com/article/its-not-just-ferguson/

 

[sonjay]

I know this has been discussed so many times but I still cannot get over it.

We are now going to have to teach in schools how to act when stopped by the police. No longer are we teaching about the friendly police officer who is your friend.

We are now going to teach how to stay alive.

I was raised with the fear of Communism and the repressive police state. I guess we accept that nowadays. The police state. I am still reeling from this

Acting like a civilized person has always worked for me whenever I've been stopped by police. I don't understand why anyone would need to be taught that.

 

[bluesneakers]

Acting like a civilized person has always worked for me whenever I've been stopped by police. I don't understand why anyone would need to be taught that.

Because it might not be enough.

 

[EllieBee]

Acting like a civilized person has always worked for me whenever I've been stopped by police. I don't understand why anyone would need to be taught that.

You should count your blessings. Many people are treated abominably and unfairly by LE and yes, often race is a factor. JMO. MOO.

 

[human]

Acting like a civilized person has always worked for me whenever I've been stopped by police. I don't understand why anyone would need to be taught that.

Ha ha. What if you as a civilized person reached for a Kleenex you dropped in your car, for instance. Too lazy to think of other things that could get you blown away.

I am not talking about how to speak with LE, but that would be ok. But things such as your movements.and your rights.

 

[BritsKate]

Acting like a civilized person has always worked for me whenever I've been stopped by police. I don't understand why anyone would need to be taught that.

Up until she was ordered from her vehicle (presumably for not extinguishing her cigarette), Sandy was civilized. She didn't attempt to evade a traffic stop; she gave what documents BE requested; she answered his questions; she was neither rude nor disrespectful. It's a matter of debate, even among experts, whether BE requesting she put out her cigarette could/should/would even be construed as a lawful order.

Being civilized didn't work for Sandy. She was still ordered from her vehicle and arrested. DPS is on record as stating BE's actions were against protocol so presumably a citizen simply being civilized isn't enough to persuade some police officers to follow procedure.

JMO

 

[sonjay]

You should count your blessings. Many people are treated abominably and unfairly by LE and yes, often race is a factor. JMO. MOO.

Someday I'd like to see some evidence of race being a factor. Mostly, people bring it on themselves by their abominable behavior. JMO. MOO.

Even in cases where it's not someone bringing it on themselves by their abominable behavior, I have yet to see evidence that it was racially motivated. Levar Jones is a good example. He was shot for no reason whatsoever. He was being civilized. He was attempting to comply with the officer's directions. Yet, he was shot. The officer was fired and was charged with aggravated assault and battery, as he should have been. That shooting was completely unjustified. But I saw no evidence that any racism was involved, just as I saw no evidence that any racism was involved when a non-white police officer shot Dillon Taylor.

 

[human]

Someday I'd like to see some evidence of race being a factor. Mostly, people bring it on themselves by their abominable behavior. JMO. MOO.

Even in cases where it's not someone bringing it on themselves by their abominable behavior, I have yet to see evidence that it was racially motivated. Levar Jones is a good example. He was shot for no reason whatsoever. He was being civilized. He was attempting to comply with the officer's directions. Yet, he was shot. The officer was fired and was charged with aggravated assault and battery, as he should have been. That shooting was completely unjustified. But I saw no evidence that any racism was involved, just as I saw no evidence that any racism was involved when a non-white police officer shot Dillon Taylor.

I am not sure how you could prove it but looking at statistics helps.

In the last couple of weeks I have been surprised about two people I know by their racist comments and attitudes. The one I would have never guessed. Who knows what is in someone's heart.

 

[sonjay]

I am not sure how you could prove it but looking at statistics helps.

In the last couple of weeks I have been surprised about two people I know by their racist comments and attitudes. The one I would have never guessed. Who knows what is in someone's heart.

Yeah, I've looked at statistics. Statistics indicate that what we see when we see bad policing is not racism, but simply bad policing. In a country the size of the U.S., some bad policing is going to happen. I don't like it when it does. But I don't buy the notion that bad policing when it involves white citizens is just bad policing and bad policing when it involves black citizens is racism. There is simply no evidence of that. Period. It's just bad policing. Police in many areas need better training. Some police officers need to be out of the policing business. And yes, some police officers are racist. But there is simply no basis on which to conclude that a white police officer and a black citizen = racism. There is no basis in this case to assume racism.

 

[katydid23]

Spencer stone got awards from the French government and a personal phone call from the President of the United States. I'm sure there's more to come, and rightfully so. He and his compatriots are true heroes and it is uplifting to know that sometimes the good prevails. Perhaps they can rename the road in France where it happened after him.
Now back to Sandra Bland. I doubt that a road will be named after her but if it is I would not complain. I think it would help to continue to focus attention on a very real problem in this country--that of the increasing polarization of police vs citizens in this country. I think what happened to Sandra Bland was an unnecessary tragedy and could have been prevented with better police screening and training.

So to help with that polarization, you think it would be good to name a street after Sandra Bland? It sounds like it is even MORE polarizing, imo.

I think there have been about 6 cops assaulted/killed in the past 2 days. Most of them during traffic stops. As long as citizens continue to shoot cops in the head when they step out of their patrol cars, cops are going to ask people like Sandra Bland to put out their cigs and step out of their cars. JMO


ETA: A cop was shot in the head in traffic stop in Louisiana today, two cops shot in Troy, NY yesterday, a cop was dragged by a vehicle in Wichita and in critical condition, and a cop on life support in Florida since Friday night.

Louisiana State Police: Trooper shot in the head during traffic stop, critically injured; drivers catch alleged gunman
ABC30.com‎ - 1 hour ago
Louisiana trooper shot in head, critically injured during traffic stop, police say

Two Troy officers shot
NEWS10 ABC‎ - 1 day ago
TROY, N.Y. (NEWS10) – According to dispatch, it is confirmed that two officers were shot on ...

Federal officer shot, suspect dead outside federal building in ...
pix11.com/.../breaking-officer-suspect-shot-outside-federal-buildi...
W

 

[BritsKate]

Someday I'd like to see some evidence of race being a factor. Mostly, people bring it on themselves by their abominable behavior. JMO. MOO.

Even in cases where it's not someone bringing it on themselves by their abominable behavior, I have yet to see evidence that it was racially motivated. Levar Jones is a good example. He was shot for no reason whatsoever. He was being civilized. He was attempting to comply with the officer's directions. Yet, he was shot. The officer was fired and was charged with aggravated assault and battery, as he should have been. That shooting was completely unjustified. But I saw no evidence that any racism was involved, just as I saw no evidence that any racism was involved when a non-white police officer shot Dillon Taylor.

The evidence certainly suggests people are sometimes stopped and searched with little to no provocation (see NY stop and frisk statistics as an example) so 'abominable behavior' is debatable. Over here, a black person is 28 times more likely to be stopped and searched than a white person...yet, I rather doubt a black person is 28 more times likely to be guilty of abominable behavior than a white person. So what else is immediately apparent to an officer other than race?

Research consistently says that blacks are not more likely -- they may even be less likely -- than whites to use drugs. But they are four times as likely to be arrested for some drug possession charges. "When you see similar rates of use and completely disparate rates of arrest," Roman says, "that’s evidence of racial bias that’s sort of hard to refute."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...-to-get-good-data-on-racial-bias-in-policing/

According to last year’s Vehicle Stop Report for Ferguson, African-American drivers there represented 86 percent of all traffic stops despite making up only 67 percent of the city’s population; white drivers, by contrast, accounted for only about 13 percent of the traffic stops in Ferguson despite making up 29 percent of its population. Meanwhile, African-American drivers accounted for nearly 93 percent of the arrests and whites only 7 percent, despite the fact that, when Ferguson police did search drivers, they found contraband on more than a third of their white targets and only a fifth of their black ones.

http://www.newrepublic.com/article/...oting-we-know-about-racial-profiling-dont-act

Blacks are more likely than others to be arrested in almost every city for almost every type of crime. Nationwide, black people are arrested at higher rates for crimes as serious as murder and assault, and as minor as loitering and marijuana possession.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/11/18/ferguson-black-arrest-rates/19043207/

Empirical evidence confirms the existence of racial profiling on America's roadways. At the national level, the U.S. Department of Labor's Bureau of Justice Statistics reports that for the year 2005, the most recent data available, "[p]olice actions taken during a traffic stop were not uniform across racial and ethnic categories." "Black drivers (4.5%) were twice as likely as White drivers (2.1%) to be arrested during a traffic stop, while Hispanic drivers (65%) were more likely than White (56.2%) or Black (55.8%) drivers to receive a ticket. In addition, Whites (9.7%) were more likely than Hispanics (5.9%) to receive a written warning, while Whites (18.6%) were more likely than Blacks (13.7%) to be verbally warned by police." When it came to searching minority motorists after a traffic stop, "Black (9.5%) and Hispanic (8.8%) motorists stopped by police were searched at higher rates than Whites (3.6%)." The "likelihood of experiencing a search did not change for Whites, Blacks, or Hispanics from 2002 to 2005."

http://www.civilrights.org/publicat...acial.html?referrer=https://www.google.co.uk/

In the first quarter of 2015, New Yorkers were stopped by the police 7,135 times.
5,857 were totally innocent (82 percent).
3,693 were black (53 percent).
2,123 were Latino (30 percent).
864 were white (12 percent).

http://www.nyclu.org/content/stop-and-frisk-data

Arrest rates are lopsided almost everywhere. Only 173 of the 3,538 police departments USA TODAY examined arrested black people at a rate equal to or lower than other racial groups.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/11/18/ferguson-black-arrest-rates/19043207/

That's a lot of bad policing.

 

[human]

So to help with that polarization, you think it would be good to name a street after Sandra Bland? It sounds like it is even MORE polarizing, imo.

I think there have been about 6 cops assaulted/killed in the past 2 days. Most of them during traffic stops. As long as citizens continue to shoot cops in the head when they step out of their patrol cars, cops are going to ask people like Sandra Bland to put out their cigs and step out of their cars. JMO


ETA: A cop was shot in the head in traffic stop in Louisiana today, two cops shot in Troy, NY yesterday, a cop was dragged by a vehicle in Wichita and in critical condition, and a cop on life support in Florida since Friday night.

People like Sandra Bland? What kind of people are those?

 

[EllieBee]

The evidence certainly suggests people are sometimes stopped and searched with little to no provocation (see NY stop and frisk statistics as an example) so 'abominable behavior' is debatable. Over here, a black person is 28 times more likely to be stopped and searched than a white person...yet, I rather doubt a black person is 28 more times likely to be guilty of abominable behavior than a white person. So what else is immediately apparent to an officer other than race?


http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...-to-get-good-data-on-racial-bias-in-policing/


http://www.newrepublic.com/article/...oting-we-know-about-racial-profiling-dont-act


http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/11/18/ferguson-black-arrest-rates/19043207/


http://www.civilrights.org/publicat...acial.html?referrer=https://www.google.co.uk/


http://www.nyclu.org/content/stop-and-frisk-data


http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/11/18/ferguson-black-arrest-rates/19043207/

That's a lot of bad policing.

Thanks, lovely Kate!

I appreciate your hard work in finding those stats, but please know some folks will never be satisfied unless the proof lines up with their presupposition.

I, on the other hand was surprised at just how prevalent racial targeting is, even though I was very aware of the bias. I just did not know how skewed things really are.

 

[bluesneakers]

People like Sandra Bland? What kind of people are those?

People who know their rights? Who commit minor traffic infractions? Who give complete answers when asked questions by law enforcement officers? Who smoke?

I know a lot of all those kinds of peoples.

 

[bluesneakers]

The evidence certainly suggests people are sometimes stopped and searched with little to no provocation (see NY stop and frisk statistics as an example) so 'abominable behavior' is debatable. Over here, a black person is 28 times more likely to be stopped and searched than a white person...yet, I rather doubt a black person is 28 more times likely to be guilty of abominable behavior than a white person. So what else is immediately apparent to an officer other than race?


http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...-to-get-good-data-on-racial-bias-in-policing/


http://www.newrepublic.com/article/...oting-we-know-about-racial-profiling-dont-act


http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/11/18/ferguson-black-arrest-rates/19043207/


http://www.civilrights.org/publicat...acial.html?referrer=https://www.google.co.uk/


http://www.nyclu.org/content/stop-and-frisk-data


http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/11/18/ferguson-black-arrest-rates/19043207/

That's a lot of bad policing.

"Arrest rates are lopsided almost everywhere. Only 173 of the 3,538 police departments USA TODAY examined arrested black people at a rate equal to or lower than other racial groups."

^I find that especially interesting because I've heard "Oh, that doesn't happen HERE" in relation to just about every metropolitan area in the US. It happens everywhere.

Thank you for all of this. I mean it. Even though it makes me want to :banghead:

 

[sonjay]

"Arrest rates are lopsided almost everywhere. Only 173 of the 3,538 police departments USA TODAY examined arrested black people at a rate equal to or lower than other racial groups."

^I find that especially interesting because I've heard "Oh, that doesn't happen HERE" in relation to just about every metropolitan area in the US. It happens everywhere.

Thank you for all of this. I mean it. Even though it makes me want to :banghead:

Yes. Because crime rates are lopsided almost everywhere. Police respond to crime. If a black person committed a crime, the police can't go arrest a white person just to keep arrest rates at some politically correct ratio.

If black people start committing crimes at the same rate as white people, then let's compare arrest rates. Until then, citing arrest rates is a diversion, nothing more.

 

[EllieBee]

Sadly, it would take having to experience what it is like to be abused and targeted by police to understand that just "obeying" the whims of a LEO is not enough to guarantee that you won't be brutalized or have your rights violated.

And who you "are" does matter. I am privileged and white and am able to see that I am sooooo daggum lucky because I will almost ALWAYS be given the benefit of the doubt, whereas other folks may never experience any benefit. How anyone who has lived a life full of "breaks" cannot appreciate that disparity as well as acknowledging the injustice of it, it beyond me.

 

[KateB]

Reminder:

Things have strayed far and wide from the topic of Sandra Bland, her interaction with officer Encinia and Sandra's death in custody.

Please leave the discussion of gangs, cops in general, citizens in general, other police/citizen interactions, etc behind and return to the topic at hand.

thanks,

tlcya

 

[katydid23]

People like Sandra Bland? What kind of people are those?

Please keep my question in the context it was asked. I said :


"As long as citizens continue to shoot cops in the head when they step out of their patrol cars, cops are going to ask people like Sandra Bland to put out their cigs and step out of their cars. JMO"


So my statement was that as long as cops are being shot /assaulted at this rate, then people like Sandra, who are being difficult, non-compliant, resistant, are going to be raising red flags in a cops mind. JMO