TX - Scott Buchholtz-Sanchez, 3 wks, decapitated, San Antonio, July 2009 *Insanity*

[WhyaDuck?]

Personally, I do not believe that she had the capacity to decide or not decide for herself. JMO. Yes she committed the crime and she will pay for it in ways that we can never imagine-if she was dx'd with PPP on top of her schizophrenia the the family, including the father of the child, obviously had no clear idea of what the physicians were telling them. They believed on some level that she still had the power to make choices for herself and her children well before anyone indicated that was a good idea.

Dad moved out a week ago-did he take the children with him for their protection? Clearly not and I would like to know more about this. He does not get a pass-she NEVER will.

The price the baby paid for this is intolerably high-we have to learn from it. We know how to execute people who are different or who make choices that are aberrant to us-how do we identify and treat prior to the choice being made?

No where have I suggested the death penalty. I merely wanted to know how lucid she was in her "good patches" to understand her diagnosis - and, thusly, to better understand her culpability, that's all.

At the very least, knowing this answer might be a lesson for us all.

 

[believe09]

She left him a week before she killed the baby. He tried to get her to come back but she wouldn't. The one time she visited him after she left, he ended up calling the police because she flew off the handle and threw the baby (in his car seat) in the car and roared off without buckling the car seat in.

She was in counselling for Post Partum but refused to take the medicine prescribed for her.

My bad-she left him.

 

[believe09]

No where have I suggested the death penalty. I merely wanted to know how lucid she was in her "good patches" to understand her diagnosis - and, thusly, to better understand her culpability, that's all.

At the very least, knowing this answer might be a lesson for us all.

I was not implying that you suggested the DP :blowkiss:

Past experience with schizophrenics leads me to believe that personal responsibility on any level is a lot to expect.

 

[Snackcakes66]

In regard to the medication, there are very few psychiatric medications that are safe for the fetus during pregnancy. If she had a diagnosis and medications prior to pregnancy she very likely would have had meds discontinued by her provider when she decided to continue with the pregnancy. Many women with a MH diagnosis come off medications during the first and second trimesters, with limited use of medication in the third. The same medications are limited during breastfeeding. This is usually a decision made WITH the treatment team, and the right supports (including family), sometimes requiring hospitalization. This article http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090728/ap_on_re_us/us_baby_decapitated notes the aunt saying a hospital called looking for her several months ago, and that a July 20 hospitalization lasted one day. It does not say if the aunt gave them her contact info., or if she was discharged or signed out AMA. At this point we do not know if she was prescribed and refused meds while breastfeeding, or opted to decline and work with whomever her providers are. We do not know if she had, or was keeping her appts. or if she had a treatment team or caseworker. We do not know if the father or family had contact with her providers to tell them what was going on.​

 

[CHICANA]

Schizophrenics don't think they need meds. My sister thought there was a conspiracy to poison her so that everyone could steal her inheritance,when she was the daughter of a queen.
She went door to door in the neighborhood of the Truman Home in Independence asking people if they knew anything about her mother who was a Truman, her father was Bob Dole. Recently she told me she wrote all of the Star Wars screenplays. It took a long time.
She's also invented all kinds of stuff and even had patents but people stole them.
She laid down in a parking lot once and refused to get up until the bomb squad got there to get the bomb out of her butt. I'm not kidding. My bratty nephews walked around saying "uh oh, I got a bomb up my butt" for weeks. These brats belong to our
other sister.
My family is so classy.
She wrote all over her car windows. "Follow me, I am a leader"
She has no control over what she does. She worked at GM for years and always helped her family when she was well. I don't think she's coming back this time. She also has medical issues and along with the meds she takes, I'm afraid she could die at any time.
Help!! She asked if she could spend the weekend. She's never hurt anybody, she even saved my son once when he was little and choked on a penny. But I'm afraid of what she could do and don't want to put my kids at risk. I'm really torn because I know I'll feel guilty if something happens to her and I didn't even want her around.
I've had to make her leave a few times when she'd accused me of stealing her husband in front of the kids. BTW that's one of her fantasies too. My niece found a stash of pics of my husband in her stuff.
What a ramble, what it comes down to, is that I know she's not responsible for her actions. If I let her come over and something happens, it will be my fault.
Even though she'd commit the crime, the blame would be mine.

 

[CHICANA]

I think you're right, Disguiseduser. Only trouble is the family let her take a shift during the night when she watched her baby alone. It was during that time (with the other family members sleeping) that she killed little Scotty.

It's ok that she had a shift, but why in the heck was it when everybody else was asleep ?

 

[DotsEyes]

The father has to take some responsiblity if she had in fact been diagnosed with post partum psychosis. It seems likethe doctor would have warned them about what could happen if she was left alone with the baby.

He didn't eat his son's brains.

 

[daisy7]

(hugs) Chicana!

My ex is schizoaffective and the last few months of my marriage was the hardest time in my life. He, too, wouldn't take his meds (cuz, we were the crazy ones not him). In his mind, he was this all-powerful person that people were trying to kill cuz he was so powerful. He sees everyone as a color -- you're a green, he's a blue, etc. What worried me the most is that he also thought the these "people" were after our sons and that he had to "protect" them. It was scary!

After he made threats against my sons and myself, I tried to have him Baker Acted a few times with no success. Also, called the police and they didn't do anything. Finally, I filed a restraining order to get him out of the house and away from my 4 DS until I could get divorced. My ex still doesn't take his meds., but I have full custody of my sons and he's not allowed to see them unless he's supervised.

I was talking to my ex's mom (whom is one of my best friends and she's also a psychologist) about this case earlier. I commented that I am so happy that I am no longer with ex (it's been 3 years now), cuz I never knew what he may have done to my kids. Her response was, well he would NEVER hurt the children. My response was that the family of this woman probably thought the same thing.

It's just so sad, for all involved. Mental illness is horrible!

 

[DotsEyes]

Maybe no one wants to hear me, but I am saying - she is a waste of resources to keep alive. No second chance. I don't want to hear about mental illness or who should have done what and this and that. ANY woman who can slice off her baby's head and eat his brains and toes needs to be put out of her misery. Like a rabid dog.

 

[reb]

chicana-- with all due respect.. your sister has a car and drives...??? how is that not a public safety issue......??!

 

[Fairy1]

Wow ya'll - so many personal stories from our WS'ers who have been touched by family members or friends with mental illnesses. My heart goes out to all of you.

While our justice system does seem to handle the majority of people with mental illnesses properly in terms of incarceration, I sure would love to see the medical and mental sectors take more responsibility BEFORE serious crimes are committed by those who are mentally ill. You could venture into the downtown area of any major US city and find scores of homeless people who would be diagnosed with mental illnesses. Yet there they are, left to fend for themselves on the streets of our cities, unable to function normally without their meds, a danger to themselves and very often to others. Our society continues to shun these people out of fear or just plain ignorance, lack of space, limited resources, etc. We don't care for the mentally ill in this country and when things like this happen, we try to categorize it as we would with any "normal" person.

This woman was obviously diagnosed long before this little baby was born. She attempted to get the help she knew she needed, but no one ensured she got that help. It's a failure of controls, but probably the norm when "treating" people with mental illness. There's plenty of blame to go around in the brutal death of this innocent little baby boy. IMO

 

[CHICANA]

chicana-- with all due respect.. your sister has a car and drives...??? how is that not a public safety issue......??!

You're telling me !!! It's odd, but she hasn't been in an accident in years, not even when she had an episode 16 years ago and tried to outrun the cops in a Geo Metro with 3 cylinders.
If you renew in time, you don't have to take the driving part of the test.
Right now, my oldest sister has guardianship and she's not allowed to drive, however she has a 2007 Cobalt and my oldest sister is allowing her son to drive it all over the place & I hear he's trashing it.
Because my sister worked for General Motors for a long time, she gets a decent disability check + a pension (or retirement, IDK the details) check monthly.
Things went downhill when my mom died 8 years ago.
My mom made sure she took her meds at the right time every day.
Before there would be long periods of more or less 'normalcy' between episodes. Now there are long periods of psychosis with a week or two of somewhat rational thinking here and there.

 

[CHICANA]

Maybe no one wants to hear me, but I am saying - she is a waste of resources to keep alive. No second chance. I don't want to hear about mental illness or who should have done what and this and that. ANY woman who can slice off her baby's head and eat his brains and toes needs to be put out of her misery. Like a rabid dog.

I hear you and I understand. I agree that there is no point to this woman remaining alive. She can never be trusted again, she's dangerous and could snap at any time. She's going to be medicated and when she's lucid enough to realize what she's done, she'll wish to be put our of her misery.
I also don't really blame anybody, there are a lot of what ifs but I nobody could have foreseen this happening.
I just can't blame her either. I don't know what caused her to do this, but I believe it was beyond her control.
The dad also said she left her meds there. If she had taken any, we'd also have to consider that some drugs prescribed for mental illnesses actually cause hallucinations and delusional thinking.
There have been 7 & 8 year old children who have killed themselves after being prescribed drugs that aren't even approved for children because of their side effects. It wasn't their fault.
Two of the anti-psychotic meds my sister takes are experimental drugs.
Personally, I want this woman locked up in a supervised mental facility for the rest of her life. IMO, sick or not, it's too much of a risk to ever release her. But I can't help but feel sorry for her and everyone else involved in this tragesty.
It hurts me that anyone could be sick enough to destroy so grotesquely, the greatest gift a person can be given.
He was a beautiful baby who should never have been born to this woman.
It's hard to feel disgust, hate and compassion all at the same time.

 

[barb0301]

Maybe no one wants to hear me, but I am saying - she is a waste of resources to keep alive. No second chance. I don't want to hear about mental illness or who should have done what and this and that. ANY woman who can slice off her baby's head and eat his brains and toes needs to be put out of her misery. Like a rabid dog.

I hear you. I understand. However, I go back and forth on how I'm feeling on this case. The overriding sadness doesn't go away, but the anger comes and goes, and the focus of my anger changes all the time. I still can't quite come to terms with her not knowing it was wrong to do what she did. Her screaming hysterically "I killed my baby, let me kill myself" makes me believe that she did know what she did was wrong. In the state of Texas, she will not be found insane if that is the case. And in my mind, if she knew what she was doing was wrong, and she did it anyway, then my sympathy for her is gone too.

I do understand the mental illness side of this case. But beyond the "mental illness" question is a "sanity" question. People can be mentally ill and not insane. Many, many times this gets tried in our court systems and very few times does it work. Andrea Yates was one where it did truly work. They eventually found that Andrea did not know right from wrong when she killed her children. That is the bottom line here. Did she know what she was doing was wrong? And if she did, she will be found guilty of capital murder. If she did not, she will be found not guilty, due to reason of insanity and will be put in a mental institution, with the hope of someday getting out.

I watched the local news tonite, and the father of the baby is still wanting the "ultimate price", which in TX is the death penalty. Because the child is under 6, it would qualify for the death penaly if she is found competent to stand trial. The father is very angry.

I will try to go by the house this week and leave some notes and a teddy bear for little Scotty. It is in a neighborhood where my best friend lived in high school. It may have been in the same house !

Something else came out on the news tonight. Someone has posted something on Craig's List, asking for money to bury Baby Scotty, making it look like it is a request from the family. If you see it - it is a HOAX !!! The family has NOT done this and are getting assistance from the Crime Victim Assistance Fund. The family has asked that you do not fall for this, because it is not being done to help bury Scotty or to help them in any way or by anyone they know. PLEASE BE AWARE AND DON'T FALL FOR IT. WHAT MONSTER WOULD TAKE A TRAGEDY LIKE THIS AND TRY TO MAKE MONEY OFF OF IT? ABSOLUTELY SHAMEFUL !!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ok, stepping down off my soap box now.

 

[Fairy1]

This is a truly difficult case to wrap one's mind around. I'm not an expert on mental illness, but based on the circumstances, I would bet my last dollar that this woman is certifiably insane. She didn't just smother her baby with a pillow FGS. What she did cannot possibly be considered sane by any stretch of the imagination, IMO. I can't really say what should happen to her, but I doubt even the great state of Texas will attempt to prosecute her as anything other than severely mentally ill.

With both parents being diagnosed as schizophrenic, I wonder what kind of life this precious little boy would have had.

 

[southcitymom]

Maybe no one wants to hear me, but I am saying - she is a waste of resources to keep alive. No second chance. I don't want to hear about mental illness or who should have done what and this and that. ANY woman who can slice off her baby's head and eat his brains and toes needs to be put out of her misery. Like a rabid dog.

Well, I can't speak for anyone else, of course, DotEyes, but I hear you - you have made your position loud and clear.

But I suspect if you continue to read this thread, you will hear a lot about mental illness as well as discussion as to how we might best approach potential future situations with parents and mental illness. I think everyone here would love that a child was NOT savaged as a result of the demons in a woman's psyche - so we look ahead and chat about prevention.

Some of us don't feel comfortable with the thought of killing sick humans. Many of us love and have lived with people afflicted with mental illness and we know that - despite the terrible things they may sometimes do - they are human beings like other human beings (never all "bad", never all "good") and they deserve our love and kindness.

We can simultaneously feel tremendous remorse for the innocent child AND deep compassion for the suffering mother. We don't have to pick a side because there is nothing black and white about this tragedy.

 

[kgeaux]

In one of the articles, it was stated that she appeared to be a "caring, loving mother".

She was also said to have been breastfeeding baby Scotty.

This makes me wonder if she stopped taking her medication so that she could breastfeed, knowing/believing that breastfeeding her baby was the best thing for the baby.

How tragically ironic, if this is the case.

You make a very good point. Breastfeeding moms are strictly limited in what meds they can take, and if she "believed" in breastfeeding like I do, she may really have thought she was doing the right thing.

I was not implying that you suggested the DP :blowkiss:

Past experience with schizophrenics leads me to believe that personal responsibility on any level is a lot to expect.

Totally agree. The voices are talking as clearly as those around them. The mentally ill person can be very confused as to who is on 'their side' and who is the enemy.

Maybe no one wants to hear me, but I am saying - she is a waste of resources to keep alive. No second chance. I don't want to hear about mental illness or who should have done what and this and that. ANY woman who can slice off her baby's head and eat his brains and toes needs to be put out of her misery. Like a rabid dog.

I hear you, but I don't agree. There are two things that make your comparison to a rabid dog an inaccurate analogy. #1, human life is held as more precious than the lives of animals. #2. A rabid dog cannot be "fixed" but schizophrenia CAN. It is controllable with proper medication.

Our justice system recognizes the fact that some people truly are mentally ill, and has made provisions for that. (we also don't kill those who have very low intelligence, children who commit crimes, etc.) They wisely set the bar very high, the majority of mentally ill people do not qualify as "legally insane." This woman may or may not.

There ARE countries out there that don't have any difficulty executing mentally ill persons. I wouldn't want to live in ANY of them, and I bet you wouldn't either!

 

[reb]

<#2. A rabid dog cannot be "fixed" but schizophrenia CAN. It is controllable with proper medication.>

wrong. what you mean is,, 'sometimes.. it MIGHT be able to be fixed'. most of the time, the person goes off it for one reason or another (unless they have someone watching them 24 hrs a day for the rest of their lives)... or they build up a resistance to it, it stops working, etc.... or it only works partially. there is definitely no black and white quick & easy fix.

 

[reb]

dotseyes-- I agree with you. I mean, where do we draw the line, when it comes to keeping people alive?? How hideously inhuman does an action have to be before we say,, OK, the line is crossed-- we need to remove them from civilized society, for good?
In any other society she would have been quickly killed (or tortured for 'possession'- which would have been pointless and even more cruel). What is it about our society that insists on keeping those like her alive and 'rehabilitating' them...??? For what.....???? For the good of society, herself, and for god's sake-- the human gene pool-- she needs to be declared crimincally insane and euthanized (not executed). Yes, OK we get it- she is mentally ill-- (and if it's because of drugs then it is partly her own fault!) -but no, she should not live. And no, this doesn't mean we should put to death everyone who has depression and whatnot-- so please don't drag all that stuff out again people.

 

[OrdinaryLife]

As a person who has witnessed mental illness, I can only share this. Unless you have experienced the nightmare of this desease, you cannot comprehend how beyond difficult it is to deal and watch a beloved go through it. Worse, if they are above the age of 18 years of age, there is nothing you can do unless a crime of their doing is committed. *Then*, and only then, your beloved ~may~ be committed for evalution/meds for only, depending on whatever State you live in, for 10 days. Perhaps longer, like 4 weeks, "if" someone with real (outside of Court appointed) experience follows through for their patient and their mental needs. It's a crapshoot.

This woman was diagnosed. Her families hands were legally tied. If she had prenatal care and her history on record, there should have been follow ups done. Medically, physically, and mentally.

I do not agree with the death penalty for this woman. Probably one of the few times I truly feel this way. She is not a "waste", but an ill woman. I do not believe, from the bottom of my heart, she knew what she was doing, with intent, was wrong. Commit her? Yes. DP, no.

imvho