TX - Terri 'Missy' Bevers, 45, killed in church/suspect in SWAT gear, Midlothian, 18 Apr 2016 #46

[darring21]

Is there a reason SP wouldn't bag the cameras or otherwise obstruct their lens? Seems like they would if it was a burglary or targeted. Are the cameras too inaccessible?

 

[Mistree]

@Gumshoe Stories
Have you been able to find out if the NE doors were broken outward or inward?

 

[Jethro4WS]

I appreciate your thoughtful reply. I guess we can agree to disagree on what LE was doing with the wording and why.

About the dates - those I provided were accurate and derived from careful examination, and they were based on the notary date when the judge signed the warrant, rather than dates when the document was later filed or released to the public. (Look for yourself, if you wish.) That chronology is what it is, and we have to factor it into our analysis.

About the "wordsmithing games" (great terminology!!) - you question whether LE could have even thought they could keep the public and media from knowing that MB was killed by gunshot. Refined enough, as you put it. But sometimes the proof is in the pudding, as they say -- isn't "MB was killed by gunshot" STILL TO THIS DAY a fact that few outside this forum are probably aware of?

And we do have some evidence of how they were trying to operate. We do know that MPD would not talk about cause of death (ever). When asked about cause of death, they said they would release that later - and never did. They certainly have never tried to clear up the misperceptions about COD that even still exist. And while they may not have had the experience to suggest that they would take such a route to hide the gunshot, they were being advised from the outset by experienced FBI and ATF who likely had plenty of experience.

Frankly, based on the totality of how they acted, I have no doubt they tried to bury this fact, and did so successfully. What I fail to see is why - it's not like they could gain an advantage by being able to hide COD from the actual perp.

Especially at this late date I don't see any advantage whatsoever it gives MPD to hide COD.

 

[GA_Peach]

The way the Geofence warrant is worded by using the term "first activated" suggest there were more than one activation prior to around 3:50 AM. And MPD has also been quoted in early articles about the cameras acting intermittently that night. However, given the track record with MPD and their wording it is anyone's guess as to what any of it means.

RSBM.

This is exactly what I was getting at. It sounds to me like the cameras activated again (and again?) prior to SP being seen on camera. I wonder if SP was already in the building. However, the rest of the Geofence warrant implies that LE thinks SP tested the alarm and then left the premises.

And I agree with you on which cameras may be triggered by outside activity. While it is not inconceivable that outside activity triggered the cameras, it doesn't really mesh with how the cameras operate.

Especially at this late date I don't see any advantage whatsoever it gives MPD to hide COD.

This is precisely my point! Withholding the COD only makes sense if it gives one an investigative advantage. However, with MB's COD now in the public sphere, that advantage is gone. Even if relatively few people know that she was shot, mentioning her COD will not aid in identifying the killer (because it's not information ONLY the killer knows). Because of that, I would think that mentioning her real COD would be beneficial because it may cause someone with relevant knowledge to come forward.

 

[Gumshoe Stories]

@Gumshoe Stories
Have you been able to find out if the NE doors were broken outward or inward?

No, not to this point.

 

[No it's not]

No, not to this point.

GS, do you have a picture of the damaged door by chance? I only recall seeing it covered with plywood. Thanks

-Nin

 

[Deleted member 718]

RSBM.

This is exactly what I was getting at. It sounds to me like the cameras activated again (and again?) prior to SP being seen on camera. I wonder if SP was already in the building. However, the rest of the Geofence warrant implies that LE thinks SP tested the alarm and then left the premises.

And I agree with you on which cameras may be triggered by outside activity. While it is not inconceivable that outside activity triggered the cameras, it doesn't really mesh with how the cameras operate.



This is precisely my point! Withholding the COD only makes sense if it gives one an investigative advantage. However, with MB's COD now in the public sphere, that advantage is gone. Even if relatively few people know that she was shot, mentioning her COD will not aid in identifying the killer (because it's not information ONLY the killer knows). Because of that, I would think that mentioning her real COD would be beneficial because it may cause someone with relevant knowledge to come forward.

Agree. If withholding the COD gives the investigation an advantage, why would the FBI give that top secret info to a non-profit organization to publish on their public database?

 

[SteveS]

Agree. If withholding the COD gives the investigation an advantage, why would the FBI give that top secret info to a non-profit organization to publish on their public database?

The FBI and others are required to compile and submit the data for the UCR which is then available to the public, under the law. LE agencies participate.

FBI: "The Uniform Crime Reporting (UCR) Program generates reliable statistics for use in law enforcement. It also provides information for students of criminal justice, researchers, the media, and the public. The program has been providing crime statistics since 1930. The UCR Program includes data from more than 18,000 city, university and college, county, state, tribal, and federal law enforcement agencies. Agencies participate voluntarily and submit their crime data either through a state UCR program or directly to the FBI's UCR Program."

Further regarding UCR reports: "The 1988 law requires all federal law enforcement agencies, including those within the Department of Defense, to report crime data including homicides to the Justice Department. The Act further requires that the Justice Department “shall report” these data to all “institutions participating in the Uniform Crime Reports program.”

The info we have learned has been ascertained by digging through that data in an online database at MAP. That's only one organization obtaining and using the data - there could be more out there.

Per the FBI "The Midlothian Police Department is located in Ellis county, Texas. Expanded Homicide Data totals for this agency are voluntarily submitted to the FBI using incident-based (NIBRS) reports. The Midlothian Police Department began submitting incident (NIBRS) data to the FBI on 10/01/2019." Their website clearly shows MB's murder was by handgun, for those who have questioned MAP's reliability.

 

[Gumshoe Stories]

GS, do you have a picture of the damaged door by chance? I only recall seeing it covered with plywood. Thanks

-Nin

No pictures.

 

[FromGermany1]

No pictures.

They were very quick to barricade, it seems.

 

[Gumshoe Stories]

Is there a reason SP wouldn't bag the cameras or otherwise obstruct their lens? Seems like they would if it was a burglary or targeted. Are the cameras too inaccessible?

It would take a ladder for the perp to reach the cameras at the SW corner.
And what would be the point of interfering with the cameras? Hasn’t SP covered that base with the head-to-toe outfit?

 

[cady]

Question for those who lean toward this being a burglary as opposed to a targeting of Missy....what of great value to SP could have been in the church? Seems to me, it couldn't have been money, or enough money to justify all the costuming and planning and risk. SP on video that we have seen, doesn't seem to know where to look, and doesn't seem particularly intent on finding anything....just casually observes nooks and crannies. Seems like he/she would have had a better idea of WHERE to look, take it, and then get out as soon as possible, instead of dawdling aimlessly as he/she appears to do. JMO

 

[Gumshoe Stories]

Question for those who lean toward this being a burglary as opposed to a targeting of Missy....what of great value to SP could have been in the church? Seems to me, it couldn't have been money, or enough money to justify all the costuming and planning and risk. SP on video that we have seen, doesn't seem to know where to look, and doesn't seem particularly intent on finding anything....just casually observes nooks and crannies. Seems like he/she would have had a better idea of WHERE to look, take it, and then get out as soon as possible, instead of dawdling aimlessly as he/she appears to do. JMO

Ask yourself whether you were seeing SP’s movements through the filter of your already formulated theory of targeting, or if you are examining those movements without bias and only drawing a conclusion afterward.

To answer your question, what of great value to SP could have been in the church? I think it’s a mistake to think there must be something of great value. Previously in this thread, I linked a commercial burglary study that involved interviews with actual burglars who have been incarcerated. The study noted that most burglars are motivated by addiction, or the need for hard cash, and quite possibly they are unemployed. So if this SP is committing a burglary, they’re not looking for something of great value. They’re looking for something that will enable them to survive a little longer. I personally think that they were looking for cash, and it would’ve been worthwhile to them if they got several hundred bucks out of it.

You say that it wouldn’t have been worth all the costuming and planning and risk. Again, you’ve already formed your theory, and in this theory you assume that the person put a lot of effort into this before breaking in. You are validating your hypothesis with assumptions that are based on that hypothesis. And round and round in a circle we go.

isn’t it possible that the outfit was readily available to SP via a roommate or a spouse? And we have no idea how much planning went into the job. Planning is part of your targeted theory, but it doesn’t necessarily have to play a large role in the untargeted theory. In fact, for all we know, the church might not have been this person’s first option.

You say that SP doesn’t seem to know where to look. SP is going from one door to the next one methodically, in order. You don’t know what is in their mind. They could be looking for the offices, because that would most likely be the location of any money. In fact, that’s my theory of why they abandon prying into room 1, because right there in their line of sight is an arrow painted on the wall with the word “OFFICES”.

By the way, the argument that Team Targeted often uses Is that this person just seems to be wandering around, taking their time, don’t really know where they’re going, etc. You know, that observation, if it were accurate, would not bode well for your targeted theory. How many targeted hits do you know of where the killer spends a lot of time just moving around taking up time, if they know they’re about to commit a murder? Aren’t they going to be a lot antsier, more twitchy than the person we see on that video? If they’re using that building as a means of killing a specific person at a specific time, Then why don’t they get in and out quickly just as you assume a burglar would?

To wrap up your comment, there really isn’t any dawdling. There’s no aimlessness. Again, get to know your layout. Understand where this perpetrator is in each scene of that video.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

How many burglar's would kill someone who caught them in the act and had no way to identify them? Why not simply flee the scene?

I guess it's possible that some would fight if the witness tried to stop and hold the burglar. Would Missy try to do that? I don't know. JMO

 

[cady]

My question was not directed at any person in particular. My position developed over time, observation and what evidence was presented. The new fact that she was shot, doesn't change my perspective, but does reinforce my frustration all along that the initial investigation was less than stellar, to be kind, and lacking in transparency. jmo

 

[Gumshoe Stories]

How many burglar's would kill someone who caught them in the act and had no way to identify them? Why not simply flee the scene

Plenty would. It happens every day. Most states have a separate murder classification in their statutes that is known as “felony murder”. This is for when murder occurs during the commission of some other crime. Could be a home invasion, a store robbery, a burglary, whatever.

Fleeing the scene would be the right thing to do if you’re in SP’s shoes. But they have already violated a house of worship. How must trust are you going to put in this person to do the right thing?

 

[Gumshoe Stories]

My question was not directed at any person in particular. My position developed over time, observation and what evidence was presented. The new fact that she was shot, doesn't change my perspective, but does reinforce my frustration all along that the initial investigation was less than stellar, to be kind, and lacking in transparency. jmo

Absolutely agree with you on that last part.

 

[al66pine]

Is it possible the church break-in was a dry run for a later, large scale operation SP had in mind?
Was it practice in "suiting up," breaking in, verifying choice of equipment, steadying nerves, etc?
If so, then Missy's arrival put a monkey wrench in SP's exercise.

This is not my theory or belief. Just crossed my mind, w no basis it, no idea what the later crime would be.

 

[moslym3]

Question for those who lean toward this being a burglary as opposed to a targeting of Missy....what of great value to SP could have been in the church? Seems to me, it couldn't have been money, or enough money to justify all the costuming and planning and risk. SP on video that we have seen, doesn't seem to know where to look, and doesn't seem particularly intent on finding anything....just casually observes nooks and crannies. Seems like he/she would have had a better idea of WHERE to look, take it, and then get out as soon as possible, instead of dawdling aimlessly as he/she appears to do. JMO

I'm pretty firmly in the interrupted burglary/breaking & entering camp since day one. I think SP could have broken into the church for any number of reasons:

• this is his cat burglar hobby, he likes to break into locations and prowl; he's new at this which is why he selected a low-risk (in his mind) location. bonus points for being seen on camera and still stumping LE
• He has a problem with the church and wants to violate/damage the church
• He believes he'd at least find some ipads, laptops, dvd players etc.

The biggest tell to me is how casual SP is - this looks like a guy who thinks he has all the time in the world and completely tuned out to anything outside of his immediate attention. He's not worried about nothing. He's barely acting curious dragging around the halls.
All my opinions.

 

[Itsapuzzle]

Totally random topic ..... is there any chance at all that the licence plate state is Maine?
Found the name of lady with superhuman eyesight, her name is Veronica Seider, I’ve got no idea though how to forward a sample of plate to her, or if she runs a business doing such things? Might be good idea for LE to try though. End of random topic.