UK - Alesha MacPhail, 6, raped & murdered, Ardbeg, Isle of Bute, Scotland, 2 Jul 2018 -*arrest* #3

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  • #881
09:58

Alesha's mum arrives at court

Alesha’s mum, Georgina Lochrane, has been pictured arriving at the court for the ninth day of proceedings.

Ms Lochrane is separated from her daughter’s dad, Robert MacPhail.

A teenager is on trial for the abduction, rape and murder of Alesha. He denies the charges against him.



0_Alesha-MacPhail-murder-trial.jpg





0_Alesha-MacPhail-murder-trial.jpg


Alesha MacPhail jurors to be sent out in teenage boy's murder trial
 
  • #882
I would normally reserve my judgement until the end of a case but if I'm honest, I had made my mind up after the DNA evidence. I was open to having that changed had there been something solid from the defence. For me, that hasn't happened.

I believe whole heartedly in innocent until proven guilty...but I am not presently on a jury. I'm just a random person sat in my house with an opinion and it is not one that matters or has any bearing on this case when it comes down to it. I can do that and still be perfectly capable of putting my emotions aside should I ever be called to a jury. Because I know my duty if that were to happen and would take it extremely seriously.

I am well aware that the jury will have access to far more than I do so if they find him not guilty I would of course accept that and their decision. Not proven, I may feel differently. I'm a human being who is not in any way legally bound to this case, I can do that. Would I start a witch hunt? No.

I think you have maybe taken some things out of context and made assumptions of people based on their commentatory on this case and you know what they say of assumptions...

I believe he is guilty, not on a hunch but because the story concocted to explain away the evidence is not convincing enough. If that woman done that to that child, her DNA would also have been in the places his was found i.e places that caused her death and injury.

Some people do know about his past. I have read of his past, it's not hard to find. But that's rumour at this stage so it doesn't form part of my opinion. I find it interesting that knowing about his past (which would only be rumour, sometimes even if local) would make you more understanding of how some folk have reached their conclusion more so than evidence being relayed in the press? That makes little sense to me.

Finally, I understand the question mark over how he got her out the house hanging for some people. I don't understand it myself. But of course unless there's a confession there will always be parts of a brutal murder and kidnap that can't be explained. You just have to go on what is there and in this case that's a fair amount of forensic evidence. The fact remains someone did take her from the house without alerting suspicion and her family are not on trial or to my knowledge under investigation, so it seems unlikely it was them. As it appears he's the only one creeping about at that time, this furthers why I have reached my personal conclusion even with the question mark over how he got her out.

It's ok not to agree but it feels a bit like you're guilting people for having an opinion. I repeat, we are not a jury.
Best post i've read on all 3 threads of this case- thank you!
 
  • #883
Hi everyone i am an occasional lurker on this site but have read every page of the trial threads.

To restore my faith in humanity, i am hoping that you are all privvy to some special, extra info not contained herein (e.g. a history of appalling violence, rape or molestation). As it stands, all i see is a witch hunt of an innocent boy based on, literally, nothing. The name calling is shameful and the logic applied by many is not only flawed but worryingly biased.

I have no doubt that, even if found not guilty, the majority on here will consider him guilty regardless. It is scary to think that, assuming mostly adults post on this thread, any one of you could be considered for jury service.

I'm positive that many of you would relish referring to this boy as a "psycho 16 year old lying pedophile freak" as opposed to 'the accused' in line with what the above poster suggested. Unfortunately that says more about you than it does him.

I'm sorry my first post is somewhat confrontational but it seems any discussion (which you are all sure is calm, considered and appreciative of all viewpoints) that doesn't denote bloodboiling from the accused's 'arrogent', 'narcissistic', 'cold', 'psychopathic', 'immature' 'goading' behaviour is not entertained.

I usually enjoy lurking here when an interesting case arises but the twisted logic applied to the circumstances and the determination in condemning the defendant has left a bad taste in my mouth. Very odd indeed.

I don't agree 100% with your post, but i do mirror a number of the points you have made as i too feel (discussion in general aside) that there is an odd sense of determination to condemn which i too find quite uncomfortable.

I had this very conversation last night with a friend last night - i specifically said it worried me to think that a jury (which is by all accounts a random cross section of members of the public) could potentially be made up of people who seem to see things without shades of grey, or get 'nervous' or 'on edge' at the thought of a not guilty verdict. To me that isn't a jury.

There is something about this trial which still doesn't sit right with me. No matter who you look at it, there is fundamentally a lack of concrete evidence against the accused, and whilst his defence to some may seem far fetched it is a defence which has been successfully proven in other cases. It is also something that one of the experts deemed 'technically possible'.

It boils down to this. Either the 16 year old on the stand is a one-in-a-million, acutely advanced psychopath, with the potential to kill again, or there is something far more fundamental at the root of this case. My inclination is to go with the latter.

My gut feeling is, the lack of carelessness in terms of evidence at both the abduction site (the MacPhail's home) and the accused's own home does not add up with the obvious carelessness at the murder scene. Regardless of how you look at this, it simply does not fit.

Lastly, i see no motive. I think the idea that he had been planning this throughout the day is as far fetched as it gets - if he was, he certainly didn't plan particularly well given the mess that was left at the murder scene. However, i do see motive in certain other people involved.

I agree with everyone that justice for Alesha MacPhail is of the upmost importance, but if the wrong person is convicted, that in itself is doing that poor little girl the biggest injustice that could be done.
 
  • #884
Does anyone know the actual charges? For example he is found guilty of murder, but not proven for abduction- or are they all grouped as one charge?
 
  • #885
  • #886
Witch-hunt of an innocent boy (


A witch-hunt of an innocent boy (give me strength) if this was posted on a comments section of a newspaper I would have put this down to a troll trying to get a reaction

DNA
missing from the house when the poor girl went missing
clothing in sea
the list could go on this is no witch hunt this is a disgrace this is even being heard he is getting his 15 mins and putting the poor family through more pain

I hope they were trolling. Anyway the ignore button is great.
 
  • #887
I don't agree 100% with your post, but i do mirror a number of the points you have made as i too feel (discussion in general aside) that there is an odd sense of determination to condemn which i too find quite uncomfortable.

I had this very conversation last night with a friend last night - i specifically said it worried me to think that a jury (which is by all accounts a random cross section of members of the public) could potentially be made up of people who seem to see things without shades of grey, or get 'nervous' or 'on edge' at the thought of a not guilty verdict. To me that isn't a jury.

There is something about this trial which still doesn't sit right with me. No matter who you look at it, there is fundamentally a lack of concrete evidence against the accused, and whilst his defence to some may seem far fetched it is a defence which has been successfully proven in other cases. It is also something that one of the experts deemed 'technically possible'.

It boils down to this. Either the 16 year old on the stand is a one-in-a-million, acutely advanced psychopath, with the potential to kill again, or there is something far more fundamental at the root of this case. My inclination is to go with the latter.

My gut feeling is, the lack of carelessness in terms of evidence at both the abduction site (the MacPhail's home) and the accused's own home does not add up with the obvious carelessness at the murder scene. Regardless of how you look at this, it simply does not fit.

Lastly, i see no motive. I think the idea that he had been planning this throughout the day is as far fetched as it gets - if he was, he certainly didn't plan particularly well given the mess that was left at the murder scene. However, i do see motive in certain other people involved.

I agree with everyone that justice for Alesha MacPhail is of the upmost importance, but if the wrong person is convicted, that in itself is doing that poor little girl the biggest injustice that could be done.

Very well made point.
 
  • #888
There is very rarely motive when it comes to the murder of an innocent child, let’s clear that up from the offset. What possible motive could anyone have to hurt a defensless 6 year old, it’s ludicrous. The motive lies more with the accused than anyone else if we really want to dig deep, he had the altercations with RM & TM for various reasons in the past.

The evidence is all over the crime scene, I am done reiterating the same dribble over and over tbh, it’s all there as facts.

Please also remember Alesha was never in the house of the accused. A palm print was found within the MacPhails home, so at some point the accused was there. This of course is a grey area for some people but in my mind it comes down to luck for the accused. May it be Alesha was already half way out the house, no-one will ever know.

We all want the same - justice for Alesha. May that be the accused or someone else but with all due respect he is the only one up for the murder and rape of Alesha.
 
  • #889
  • #890
I don't agree 100% with your post, but i do mirror a number of the points you have made as i too feel (discussion in general aside) that there is an odd sense of determination to condemn which i too find quite uncomfortable.

I had this very conversation last night with a friend last night - i specifically said it worried me to think that a jury (which is by all accounts a random cross section of members of the public) could potentially be made up of people who seem to see things without shades of grey, or get 'nervous' or 'on edge' at the thought of a not guilty verdict. To me that isn't a jury.

There is something about this trial which still doesn't sit right with me. No matter who you look at it, there is fundamentally a lack of concrete evidence against the accused, and whilst his defence to some may seem far fetched it is a defence which has been successfully proven in other cases. It is also something that one of the experts deemed 'technically possible'.

It boils down to this. Either the 16 year old on the stand is a one-in-a-million, acutely advanced psychopath, with the potential to kill again, or there is something far more fundamental at the root of this case. My inclination is to go with the latter.

My gut feeling is, the lack of carelessness in terms of evidence at both the abduction site (the MacPhail's home) and the accused's own home does not add up with the obvious carelessness at the murder scene. Regardless of how you look at this, it simply does not fit.

Lastly, i see no motive. I think the idea that he had been planning this throughout the day is as far fetched as it gets - if he was, he certainly didn't plan particularly well given the mess that was left at the murder scene. However, i do see motive in certain other people involved.

I agree with everyone that justice for Alesha MacPhail is of the upmost importance, but if the wrong person is convicted, that in itself is doing that poor little girl the biggest injustice that could be done.

What was the motive in the abduction of April Jones or Sarah Payne? What makes you think that a 16 year old won’t have the same motive? Personally I think he had more motive than Toni. I also think he planned this very well indeed considering how well he covered his tracks well where it mattered to cause doubt. IMO that is
 
  • #891
I don't agree 100% with your post, but i do mirror a number of the points you have made as i too feel (discussion in general aside) that there is an odd sense of determination to condemn which i too find quite uncomfortable.

I had this very conversation last night with a friend last night - i specifically said it worried me to think that a jury (which is by all accounts a random cross section of members of the public) could potentially be made up of people who seem to see things without shades of grey, or get 'nervous' or 'on edge' at the thought of a not guilty verdict. To me that isn't a jury.

There is something about this trial which still doesn't sit right with me. No matter who you look at it, there is fundamentally a lack of concrete evidence against the accused, and whilst his defence to some may seem far fetched it is a defence which has been successfully proven in other cases. It is also something that one of the experts deemed 'technically possible'.

It boils down to this. Either the 16 year old on the stand is a one-in-a-million, acutely advanced psychopath, with the potential to kill again, or there is something far more fundamental at the root of this case. My inclination is to go with the latter.

My gut feeling is, the lack of carelessness in terms of evidence at both the abduction site (the MacPhail's home) and the accused's own home does not add up with the obvious carelessness at the murder scene. Regardless of how you look at this, it simply does not fit.

Lastly, i see no motive. I think the idea that he had been planning this throughout the day is as far fetched as it gets - if he was, he certainly didn't plan particularly well given the mess that was left at the murder scene. However, i do see motive in certain other people involved.

I agree with everyone that justice for Alesha MacPhail is of the upmost importance, but if the wrong person is convicted, that in itself is doing that poor little girl the biggest injustice that could be done.

Motive and planning you give the suspect too much credit
Who knows what is going on in a mind of someone who would do that to a little girl
Planning can sometimes just be to kidnap and assault a youngster they don’t always think any further ahead than that

As for motive from other members I do not see any strong motive from other members which would sway me away from the dna the boy leaving the house and entering and re entering when others are asleep

I cannot see anything in the defence that even shows any serious doubt
 
  • #892
I don't agree 100% with your post, but i do mirror a number of the points you have made as i too feel (discussion in general aside) that there is an odd sense of determination to condemn which i too find quite uncomfortable.

I had this very conversation last night with a friend last night - i specifically said it worried me to think that a jury (which is by all accounts a random cross section of members of the public) could potentially be made up of people who seem to see things without shades of grey, or get 'nervous' or 'on edge' at the thought of a not guilty verdict. To me that isn't a jury.

There is something about this trial which still doesn't sit right with me. No matter who you look at it, there is fundamentally a lack of concrete evidence against the accused, and whilst his defence to some may seem far fetched it is a defence which has been successfully proven in other cases. It is also something that one of the experts deemed 'technically possible'.

It boils down to this. Either the 16 year old on the stand is a one-in-a-million, acutely advanced psychopath, with the potential to kill again, or there is something far more fundamental at the root of this case. My inclination is to go with the latter.

My gut feeling is, the lack of carelessness in terms of evidence at both the abduction site (the MacPhail's home) and the accused's own home does not add up with the obvious carelessness at the murder scene. Regardless of how you look at this, it simply does not fit.

Lastly, i see no motive. I think the idea that he had been planning this throughout the day is as far fetched as it gets - if he was, he certainly didn't plan particularly well given the mess that was left at the murder scene. However, i do see motive in certain other people involved.

I agree with everyone that justice for Alesha MacPhail is of the upmost importance, but if the wrong person is convicted, that in itself is doing that poor little girl the biggest injustice that could be done.

Motive was likely sexual aggression. No complex motive is required.

On lack of DNA evidence at accused home and victim's home. We have to remember the police check "key" areas, not inch by inch. Additionally, of course the scene of the crime will have far more cross between victim and accused than his home. She was never there, therefore it would have to be transference... I don't think there was significant amount of blood etc, so it's not like he had much to clean other than his body which is explained by the shower.

I would echo what others have said - we have to remember we are only getting snippets via Twitter. So of course we are not making a fully informed opinion vs that of a jury. However we are absolutely entitled to do that, we don't all have to follow jury rules in our personal lives and on WS.
 
  • #893
I don't agree 100% with your post, but i do mirror a number of the points you have made as i too feel (discussion in general aside) that there is an odd sense of determination to condemn which i too find quite uncomfortable.

I had this very conversation last night with a friend last night - i specifically said it worried me to think that a jury (which is by all accounts a random cross section of members of the public) could potentially be made up of people who seem to see things without shades of grey, or get 'nervous' or 'on edge' at the thought of a not guilty verdict. To me that isn't a jury.

There is something about this trial which still doesn't sit right with me. No matter who you look at it, there is fundamentally a lack of concrete evidence against the accused, and whilst his defence to some may seem far fetched it is a defence which has been successfully proven in other cases. It is also something that one of the experts deemed 'technically possible'.

It boils down to this. Either the 16 year old on the stand is a one-in-a-million, acutely advanced psychopath, with the potential to kill again, or there is something far more fundamental at the root of this case. My inclination is to go with the latter.

My gut feeling is, the lack of carelessness in terms of evidence at both the abduction site (the MacPhail's home) and the accused's own home does not add up with the obvious carelessness at the murder scene. Regardless of how you look at this, it simply does not fit.

Lastly, i see no motive. I think the idea that he had been planning this throughout the day is as far fetched as it gets - if he was, he certainly didn't plan particularly well given the mess that was left at the murder scene. However, i do see motive in certain other people involved.

I agree with everyone that justice for Alesha MacPhail is of the upmost importance, but if the wrong person is convicted, that in itself is doing that poor little girl the biggest injustice that could be done.

Why do you think he has to have a motive? “why” did he rape and kill her you mean? How are we supposed to know that. There is lots of people out there who have sexually assaulted young children and murdered them because they just want too. I’m confused why you think he must need a “reason” of course he doesn’t. Maybe he’s a sadistic paedophile and he did it for no other reason than he wanted too?
 
  • #894
We all want the same - justice for Alesha. May that be the accused or someone else but with all due respect he is the only one up for the murder and rape of Alesha.

Justice does not mean that someone is condemned without due process simply for being "the only one up for the" charge.

I agree that it looks likely from the evidence made available to the general public that he should be found guilty, but anyone saying "100%" he is guilty or a psychopath, or being "done reiterating the same dribble" as if the case is cut and dried is very irresponsible to be honest.

Let's wait for the verdict without this kind of misplaced confidence in the guilt or innocence of the accused.
 
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  • #895
There is very rarely motive when it comes to the murder of an innocent child, let’s clear that up from the offset. What possible motive could anyone have to hurt a defensless 6 year old, it’s ludicrous. The motive lies more with the accused than anyone else if we really want to dig deep, he had the altercations with RM & TM for various reasons in the past.

The evidence is all over the crime scene, I am done reiterating the same dribble over and over tbh, it’s all there as facts.

Please also remember Alesha was never in the house of the accused. A palm print was found within the MacPhails home, so at some point the accused was there. This of course is a grey area for some people but in my mind it comes down to luck for the accused. May it be Alesha was already half way out the house, no-one will ever know.

We all want the same - justice for Alesha. May that be the accused or someone else but with all due respect he is the only one up for the murder and rape of Alesha.

Yes, completely agree with everything you have said.
 
  • #896
Very good post imo. I am of the same believe that there is much more to this in the background I do not understand why the father and girlfriend have lied about there whereabouts that night for a start Secondly i cannot get my head around the fact that the accussed headed off that night to get alesha knowing nothing of the fact the door was open, the bedroom doir sqeeked, the actual room she slept in and of course she may have even slept inbeside the father or have still been awake Too many inconsistences for me
Crestnut, I, too, am confused about much of this. If he has murdered this precious child, the only clear solution to the things that you mention above was that she followed T out of the house when T went to meet the accused. However, that still would not clarify the lack of DNA in his own home in relation to Alesha. So many unexplained questions here.
 
  • #897
There is very rarely motive when it comes to the murder of an innocent child, let’s clear that up from the offset. What possible motive could anyone have to hurt a defensless 6 year old, it’s ludicrous. The motive lies more with the accused than anyone else if we really want to dig deep, he had the altercations with RM & TM for various reasons in the past.

The evidence is all over the crime scene, I am done reiterating the same dribble over and over tbh, it’s all there as facts.

Please also remember Alesha was never in the house of the accused. A palm print was found within the MacPhails home, so at some point the accused was there. This of course is a grey area for some people but in my mind it comes down to luck for the accused. May it be Alesha was already half way out the house, no-one will ever know.

We all want the same - justice for Alesha. May that be the accused or someone else but with all due respect he is the only one up for the murder and rape of Alesha.

No offence, i have read most of your posts throughout this entire discussion and feel my shades of grey comment would sum up your thoughts on and approach to this case. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but the 'determination' aspect that the original poster mentioned and i agreed with is all too apparent. I don't think that is in keeping with the spirit of our justice system.
 
  • #898
The jury in the Alesha MacPhail murder trial has returned to Glasgow High Court this morning to hear legal guidance from Judge Lord Matthews #HeartNews

3ACEEECD-177D-4D02-BA59-7F93C4A79BA7.jpeg

Heart Scotland News on Twitter
 
  • #899
Day nine in Alesha MacPhail rape and murder trial.


Lord Matthews is currently directing the jury on their responsibilities.

Connor Gillies on Twitter
 
  • #900
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