UK - Alesha MacPhail, 6, raped & murdered, Ardbeg, Isle of Bute, Scotland, 2 Jul 2018 -*arrest* #3

[Gallicrow]

I am nervous, not because I distrust the jury but because of the availability of a not proven verdict .. that’s neither guilty nor not guilty but the accused still walks free..

"Not proven" is actually quite a rare verdict, it happens in fewer than 1% of cases - see Not proven verdicts delivered from 2011 to 2016: FOI release - gov.scot

 

[Marlinspike]

See No Comment! | Think Forensic
"If you’re innocent, and have proof of this, there’s really no reason to give ‘no comment’ when interviewed; it’s common sense. But if you’re not innocent, or you have little evidence to prove you are, it seems uttering ‘no comment’ won’t necessarily save your skin. Ultimately, it just delays the inevitable…"

You could be guilty of something else which you do not with to incriminate yourself for. That doesn't mean you're guilty of the charge you are being questioned about, however.

 

[beseeingyou]

I am nervous, not because I distrust the jury but because of the availability of a not proven verdict .. that’s neither guilty nor not guilty but the accused still walks free..

It is also the decision of the jury, who (as i explained above) have had full access to all the information in this case, not just the sparse tweets and media mentality reporting.

 

[Nikynoo]

See No Comment! | Think Forensic
"If you’re innocent, and have proof of this, there’s really no reason to give ‘no comment’ when interviewed; it’s common sense. But if you’re not innocent, or you have little evidence to prove you are, it seems uttering ‘no comment’ won’t necessarily save your skin. Ultimately, it just delays the inevitable…"

what if you're innocent and have no proof?

 

[Alyce]

what, in your opinion, do you think this means?

Apologies, my wording was perhaps misleading. I was not reading anything into it, I just found it interesting because I have never before heard a Judge offer that suggestion - that drugs or alcohol could have clouded the person's ability to provide clear cut evidence ( I mean at the time they were questioned initially of course, not in the witness box )

 

[Marlinspike]

Snipped by me
Why is it unpleasant, for posters who have followed this case, to be nervous about wanting the correct verdict to be returned ( whichever verdict it is that they wish for ).
Surely that is a sign of people wanting justice to be done.

The "correct" verdict? How can you be nervous about something which is not yet known, unless of course you have preconceptions about what "correct" is. It's not a sign of people wanting justice to be done, it's a sign of people wanting the jury to reach the verdict that they think is correct. The two are not the same thing.

 

[Pooksthebear]

So if the figure had Alesha, and we can only speculate that this is what the images show from descriptions tweeted to us, why would the person carryin Alesha (assuming it's not the accused or the girlfriend) come forward to the police? Bizarre idea.

If this was a third party you would think ‘other’ dna would have been found on her. Are you suggesting there is another suspect in the mix? I am most certainly not! Hence my original post .. IF this had been an innocent 3rd party they would have come forward!

 

[Pooksthebear]

You could be guilty of something else which you do not with to incriminate yourself for. That doesn't mean you're guilty of the charge you are being questioned about, however.

Why didn’t he mention his special defence when he was arrested or charged?

 

[Nikynoo]

Apologies, my wording was perhaps misleading. I was not reading anything into it, I just found it interesting because I have never before heard a Judge offer that suggestion - that drugs or alcohol could have clouded the person's ability to provide clear cut evidence ( I mean at the time they were questioned initially of course, not in the witness box )

or possibly in the witness box? OK, I get a better idea of where he was going with this.

 

[Crestnut]

If this was a third party you would think ‘other’ dna would have been found on her. Are you suggesting there is another suspect in the mix? I am most certainly not! Hence my original post .. IF this had been an innocent 3rd party they would have come forward!

When would they have came forward if the cctv was not revealed until during the court case ?

 

[beseeingyou]

We’re nervous a boy like this might actually walk free, I think I better delete my account on here because it’s quite draining and exhausting constantly repeating yourself.

Some people will only believe the accused did it if Its proved beyond all doubt he did.

That can never happen can it? And the courts know this, Realistically, no one will ever know the 100% truth apart from him and alesha. We have to just go off the bits that we do know.. and make an assumption. It’s fair enough if you don’t think he did it but you seem to repeat yourself over and over that “ I never said he didn’t do it” but then start talking like you do believe he didn’t do it?!

Interesting the first thing you said was that you are 'nervous a boy like this might actually walk free'.

Let me just clarify again, i have never said the accused is guilty, or not guilty. If you are presumptious enough to think my arguing certain points means i believe one thing or another, then that's your problem not mine.

<modsnipped personalized response>

 

[Marlinspike]

If this was a third party you would think ‘other’ dna would have been found on her. Are you suggesting there is another suspect in the mix? I am most certainly not! Hence my original post .. IF this had been an innocent 3rd party they would have come forward!

I'm not suggesting anything, other than that a grainy CCTV image from nighttime is not proof beyond reasonable doubt that either a) the person is carrying Alesha or b) the person is the accused.

 

[bronzepurple]

13:07
Deliberations continue
Jurors are still considering their verdict.

Lord Matthews has instructed them to consider three charges - of rape, murder, and child abduction.

A previous charge of defeating the ends of justice was dropped yesterday.

Lord Matthews told jurors: “At the end of the day, your duty is to return a true verdict.

“The burden of proof lies fairly and squarely on the Crown.”

Deliberations are ongoing.

Alesha MacPhail jurors sent out in teenage boy's murder trial

 

[Alyce]

The "correct" verdict? How can you be nervous about something which is not yet known, unless of course you have preconceptions about what "correct" is. It's not a sign of people wanting justice to be done, it's a sign of people wanting the jury to reach the verdict that they think is correct. The two are not the same thing.

People can often be nervous about something which is not yet known - that's part and parcel of life.

As you don't see it that way, then we will just have to respectfully agree to disagree.

 

[Kikixxxx]

Interesting the first thing you said was that you are 'nervous a boy like this might actually walk free'.

Let me just clarify again, i have never said the accused is guilty, or not guilty. If you are presumptious enough to think my arguing certain points means i believe one thing or another, then that's your problem not mine.

<modsnipped>.

Because I believe he did! I’m allowed to believe he did and I’m allowed to say I believe hes guilty thank you very much!

 

[Pooksthebear]

what if you're innocent and have no proof?

He had proof .. his special defence .. but failed to mention that until last week .. why?

 

[Alyce]

or possibly in the witness box? OK, I get a better idea of where he was going with this.

Ah, I didn't think he meant in the witness box - but who knows - we were not there, so you could be right !

 

[Nikynoo]

He had proof .. his special defence .. but failed to mention that until last week .. why?

defence strategy maybe?

 

[Thebutlerdiditagain]

what if you're innocent and have no proof?

Sometimes saying things can get you in trouble even if your innocent and just trying to be helpful

I don’t mean this with the accused in this case

 

[Pooksthebear]

When would they have came forward if the cctv was not revealed until during the court case ?

How do you know it wasn’t? How do you know the police didn’t ask for all witnesses or anyone who was in those areas at those times on those dates to come forward? They usually do.