UK UK - Andrew Gosden, 14, Doncaster, South Yorks, 14 Sep 2007 #2

[TheRockingRev]

Probably my main theory on this now is at some point on that Friday he wanted to cover some distance so decided to get a taxi. I presume there was no CCTV of him purchasing a travelcard for the tube/bus at XC and he just walked straight out of the station.

Back then you could still pay cash on buses. The other thing that you never hear is whether because the family did visit London, and he was familiar with the transport system, whether he had a pre-paid Oyster card.
As he was seen walking out of the station, it is pretty much a certainty that he didn't take the tube - but he may have taken a bus. I'm inclined to think that he walked though. It was a nice day, and Andrew seemed the sort of lad who was inquisitive and interested, so a walk to the centre would've been good fun for him IMO because of any observations he could make.

However it wasn't a taxi or private hire vehicle and was just some randoms driving around looking to take advantage of a vulnerable teen.

I'm not sure this would have happened. Kings Cross is pretty populated by cameras, and so it would've been hard for a car not to be picked up on film, especially as the area has special designated stops for taxis, and that's about it. Trust me, if you aren't official it is a nightmare to stop anywhere there. As for driving around, the front of Kings Cross is horrendous, there's no way a car could loiter, or even stop really. For a driver to spot and then actually stop to talk to a teen, who they would've had needed to known for sure was on their own, not meeting an adult, or have one in front or behind him would be near impossible. I know missing a turn in London, and you are literally driving for another 5 minutes or so before you can turn around. It's bad enough other places in London - but outside Kings Cross in the middle of the day (before the bulk of the driving restrictions in London) no way.

The other point is that by time Kings Cross had really been cleaned up, with the Eurostar there too there is always a heavy police presence (and I mean heavy as they're armed) anyone whether a prostitute, pimp, addict, vagrant or just a loiterer is moved on pretty quickly.

That is more likely than just taking the wrong side street and a person or gang just abducting him off the face of the earth seemingly.

The horrific Sarah Everard case shows what can happen when awful combination of sinister intentions can just end a life like that and of course in 2007 there was no dashcam footage or even indication of what area Andrew eventually ended up in compared to Sarah with all the data so very limited clues to focus on.

I think the other thing is that the Pizza Hut sighting on Oxford Street later that day (but I'm not sure of the time exactly) has always been held up as being almost 100% correct by his family who have stated about the way in which he spoke to the waitress. JMO - but I really think this is part of Andrew's day (Pizza Hut definitely being a top draw for a 14 year old - and as he had cash too. Maybe it was somewhere he only went on a special occasion, so going on his own randomly makes sense) and so I don't think any abduction took place by Kings Cross.

 

[Inspector Evans]

No I think possible car abduction would've happened later, well away from XC. Potentially evening. He waits by a taxi spot and a car with a driver with malicious intentions sees a kid just standing there without family and he gets in and then who knows...

Just a theory but that's a heartbreaking thing about this. I imagine there was an electronic trail of his movements up to afternoon but with the CCTV being looked at late all that was discovered was him walking out of XC and then he visibly vanishes into thin air.

The potential Pizza Hut ID does suggest to me he wasn't in danger in London as soon as he got off the train as I presume the waitress just served him eating alone? If it was him then where did he go afterwards or who did he meet to just never be heard of again.

Certainly if I was going out for the day with a group when 14 we'd be heading into the nearest McDonalds/Pizza Hut (still did it in 20s!) so it indicates at least he walked around London for a fair bit, probably on foot.

 

[TheRockingRev]

No I think possible car abduction would've happened later, well away from XC. Potentially evening. He waits by a taxi spot and a car with a driver with malicious intentions sees a kid just standing there without family and he gets in and then who knows...

It could very well be. In 1992 the Sunday Telegraph ran an article about children who had vanished in London. At least 3 mentioned went into the West end, never to be seen again. And that's just the tip of the iceberg.
Now of course that was 15 years before Andrew, and the West End had been cleaned up somewhat in that time (certainly the seedy nature of Soho had changed) but it wasn't as if the predators had been wiped out - they had been driven elsewhere.
Whereas before they had hung around amusement arcades and train stations, they were now being pushed to refine their tactics elsewhere. So it is quite possible that this could have been the case.

Just a theory but that's a heartbreaking thing about this. I imagine there was an electronic trail of his movements up to afternoon but with the CCTV being looked at late all that was discovered was him walking out of XC and then he visibly vanishes into thin air.

It really is. In 2007 there would've been a whole trail of footage that probably would've been a complete story of his day. Just by sheer bad luck it was lost.
It does back up your theory of an abduction in a car as otherwise any predator would've known they would likely have been picked up on camera with Andrew elsewhere.

The potential Pizza Hut ID does suggest to me he wasn't in danger in London as soon as he got off the train as I presume the waitress just served him eating alone? If it was him then where did he go afterwards or who did he meet to just never be heard of again.

The only thing that baffles is why he went? This would give some clues to his movements on the day. IMO I do think he was meeting someone - but that is JMO.
With your theory, and I 'm not against it at all, it does seem a tragic tale of a seemingly innocent adventure that ended up going horrifically wrong.

Certainly if I was going out for the day with a group when 14 we'd be heading into the nearest McDonalds/Pizza Hut (still did it in 20s!) so it indicates at least he walked around London for a fair bit, probably on foot.

 

[TheRockingRev]

A couple of questions (odd perhaps - but could be relevant)
1). I believe the Pizza Hut on Oxford Street was nearer the TCR end - is this correct? I think the building it was in has been redeveloped.
2). Was pizza something that Andrew particularly enjoyed? Was it a treat he only had out on special occasions?
3). Had he used that pizza hut branch before - or had he been in any pizza hut before?
4). Was it the buffet menu he was using?

 

[ChatteringBirds]

A couple of questions (odd perhaps - must could be relevant)
1). I believe the Pizza Hut on Oxford Street was nearer the TCR end - is this correct? I think the building it was in has been redeveloped.
2). Was pizza something that Andrew particularly enjoyed? Was it a treat he only had out on special occasions?
3). Had he used that pizza hut branch before - or had he been in any pizza hut before?
4). Was it the buffet menu he was using?

1) I don't know the answer but I believe I read that particular Pizza Hut is no longer there.
2) Yes, his father has said his favorite food is Italian food. I remember him saying in an interview they eat Italian food to celebrate Andrew on Andrew's birthday.
3) I can't remember what his father has said about Pizza Hut in particular but the toppings the teenager ordered were consistent with what Andrew usually ordered.
4) I don't think so, because the cashier believed she remembered the type of pizza ordered.

On another note, the YouTube video called "Missing: Andrew Gosden (Interview with Kevin Gosden)" by channel "Jason Hebert..." is worth watching by anyone interested in this case; his father is literally answering questions about the case.

All JMO.

 

[TheRockingRev]

1) I don't know the answer but I believe I read that particular Pizza Hut is no longer there.
2) Yes, his father has said his favorite food is Italian food. I remember him saying in an interview they eat Italian food to celebrate Andrew on Andrew's birthday.
3) I can't remember what his father has said about Pizza Hut in particular but the toppings the teenager ordered were consistent with what Andrew usually ordered.
4) I don't think so, because the cashier believed she remembered the type of pizza ordered.

On another note, the YouTube video called "Missing: Andrew Gosden (Interview with Kevin Gosden)" by channel "Jason Hebert..." is worth watching by anyone interested in this case; his father is literally answering questions about the case.

All JMO.

Thanks for the info. Although it seems rather trivial, it does have a reason.
To get from Kings Cross to that end of Oxford Street is an easy 45 minute walk I'd say. Give or take, as Andrew probably didn't walk fast.
What is also interesting is that the walk could take him past the British Museum, somewhere his father mentioned he may have gone.
Although not a school holiday, it still would've likely been busy - especially with tourists who would have been especially in town that time of year. As a free visit sometimes you have to queue to get in - did Andrew see a long queue and think it wasn't worth it, and instead went for lunch. Alternatively did he see a queue / or no queue and went to get lunch to either let the line die down, or to fuel up before a look around (the museum being quite big after all). So here's a question - rather than gigs in town, was the museum showcasing an exhibit that may have appealed to Andrew? A particular subject of interest or something from school? Has this ever been looked at?

The reason for the pizza is because to go from the British museum to Oxford Street, you would pass at least one burger restaurant, if not two (there was definitely a Burger King at the top end, and I'm sure the McD's was there too). If it was a food he particularly liked / only had on odd occasions then it makes sense that he would try and find pizza.
If he was aware of that particular pizza hut, or knew of he pizza hut menu he may have specifically tried to find it - but saying that I'm not sure how many other pizza places her would've passed en-route anyway.
If he had been there before, it would explain why he went there. Or he may have either a). guessed that Oxford Street would more than likely have one or b). asked someone.

The reason asking about the buffet, is this is the sort of thing that appeals to a kid - unlimited everything, and when you don't have an adult with you, you can really indulge. I wonder if this would be what made pizza hut such a draw for him.
But these are just my ramblings - it could be that he wasn't a big eater, didn't have the time and instead just wanted something quick if he was going back to the museum / elsewhere.

A good thing to know is the approximate time of this alleged sighting in Pizza Hut.

There is something else, JMO and throwing ideas out there Being in Pizza Hut and ordering on his own would allow someone time to observe that he definitely was on his own - was it here that a potential predator clocked him? Although mainly burger places (due to their low cost / more casual seating) fast food places have always had a strong alure for those looking for vulnerable children. Although it's a sit-down place, the buffet option does mean that it would have appealed to youngsters - and therefore those trying to exploit them.

 

[Inspector Evans]

Thanks for the info. Although it seems rather trivial, it does have a reason.
To get from Kings Cross to that end of Oxford Street is an easy 45 minute walk I'd say. Give or take, as Andrew probably didn't walk fast.
What is also interesting is that the walk could take him past the British Museum, somewhere his father mentioned he may have gone.
Although not a school holiday, it still would've likely been busy - especially with tourists who would have been especially in town that time of year. As a free visit sometimes you have to queue to get in - did Andrew see a long queue and think it wasn't worth it, and instead went for lunch. Alternatively did he see a queue / or no queue and went to get lunch to either let the line die down, or to fuel up before a look around (the museum being quite big after all). So here's a question - rather than gigs in town, was the museum showcasing an exhibit that may have appealed to Andrew? A particular subject of interest or something from school? Has this ever been looked at?

The reason for the pizza is because to go from the British museum to Oxford Street, you would pass at least one burger restaurant, if not two (there was definitely a Burger King at the top end, and I'm sure the McD's was there too). If it was a food he particularly liked / only had on odd occasions then it makes sense that he would try and find pizza.
If he was aware of that particular pizza hut, or knew of he pizza hut menu he may have specifically tried to find it - but saying that I'm not sure how many other pizza places her would've passed en-route anyway.
If he had been there before, it would explain why he went there. Or he may have either a). guessed that Oxford Street would more than likely have one or b). asked someone.

The reason asking about the buffet, is this is the sort of thing that appeals to a kid - unlimited everything, and when you don't have an adult with you, you can really indulge. I wonder if this would be what made pizza hut such a draw for him.
But these are just my ramblings - it could be that he wasn't a big eater, didn't have the time and instead just wanted something quick if he was going back to the museum / elsewhere.

A good thing to know is the approximate time of this alleged sighting in Pizza Hut.

There is something else, JMO and throwing ideas out there Being in Pizza Hut and ordering on his own would allow someone time to observe that he definitely was on his own - was it here that a potential predator clocked him? Although mainly burger places (due to their low cost / more casual seating) fast food places have always had a strong alure for those looking for vulnerable children. Although it's a sit-down place, the buffet option does mean that it would have appealed to youngsters - and therefore those trying to exploit them.

Half 11 he got in wasn't it?

So potential timeline could've been walk to the museum and have a look round for an hour and then get something to eat between 1.30-2pm. In all the reports was there a potential time put on him possibly being at Pizza Hut?

It is then that four-five hour or so mystery part of window where did he go and/or who did he meet as he feasibly could've just walked back the same route he took up to XC.

 

[Inspector Evans]

Clicked on the first thread on this which started July 2011 and straight away there's a post on first page which specifies that the trip from someone to Hereford Police station took place in November 2008 and claimed they had information on Andrew's disappearance.

So just over a year since he disappeared and I believe Hereford Police HQ in that period was tucked away down some isolated industrial estate rather than being close to the town centre?

So if this was just a time waster/hoaxer then seems to me a bit of an effort to make yourself known for a case that seemingly had no links to Hereford?

Again with the missed opportunity on the day with CCTV it is frustrating no one was present at the police station to at least take information and the individual just gave up and went off.

Was there a mass appeal around November 2008 about this case in the media as I doubt local papers/radio in Hereford were saying this so interested what motivated someone in that Hereford area to decide to go. I guess in the weeks after efforts were made to trace. Did they not record the voice on the intercom and release it to local media to see if anyone could identify the person?

 

[davidt]

Just a few thoughts about Andrew. He'd stopped attending church around 18 months earlier. In more recent times he'd stopped attending scouts although at his age probably not unusual. He had a small group of friends at school who he did not socialise with outside. There are reports he'd distanced himself from other classmates. During the school holidays his parents had encouraged him to visit his grandparents in London but he declined to do so.

I wonder if that was an attempt by them to get him out of the house more? It doesn't seem that the various things he stopped doing were replaced by anything else and if anything he was spending more time at home on his own. Was Andrew becoming more introverted and isolated perhaps? I know he was at an age where hormones and everything would be kicking in but I do wonder if there was something else going on.

 

[Aluev]

Clicked on the first thread on this which started July 2011 and straight away there's a post on first page which specifies that the trip from someone to Hereford Police station took place in November 2008 and claimed they had information on Andrew's disappearance.

So just over a year since he disappeared and I believe Hereford Police HQ in that period was tucked away down some isolated industrial estate rather than being close to the town centre?

So if this was just a time waster/hoaxer then seems to me a bit of an effort to make yourself known for a case that seemingly had no links to Hereford?

Again with the missed opportunity on the day with CCTV it is frustrating no one was present at the police station to at least take information and the individual just gave up and went off.

Interesting thoughts there @Inspector Evans. I agree, if he/she was a time waster, why bother going to a remote police station in person, ready to give a full statement without the anonymity of just calling the tip-line?

Was there a mass appeal around November 2008 about this case in the media as I doubt local papers/radio in Hereford were saying this so interested what motivated someone in that Hereford area to decide to go. I guess in the weeks after efforts were made to trace. Did they not record the voice on the intercom and release it to local media to see if anyone could identify the person?

Perhaps it was this campaign that was already running by November 2008:

Milk cartons to show missing boy​

And here a video of the actual milk cartons with Andrew on them in Oct-Nov 2008.

 

[davidt]

Interesting thoughts there @Inspector Evans. I agree, if he/she was a time waster, why bother going to a remote police station in person, ready to give a full statement without the anonymity of just calling the tip-line?



Perhaps it was this campaign that was already running by November 2008:

Milk cartons to show missing boy​

And here a video of the actual milk cartons with Andrew on them in Oct-Nov 2008.

It does seem an odd course of action for a hoaxes to take. Turning up in person and everything. Yet you wonder why they didn't make any further attempts to contact the police. Unfortunately its unlikely we will ever know.

 

[Inspector Evans]

Interesting thoughts there @Inspector Evans. I agree, if he/she was a time waster, why bother going to a remote police station in person, ready to give a full statement without the anonymity of just calling the tip-line?



Perhaps it was this campaign that was already running by November 2008:

Milk cartons to show missing boy​

And here a video of the actual milk cartons with Andrew on them in Oct-Nov 2008.

That's a great find. So either guilty conscience from seeing his face at a supermarket at end of the weekend potentially force someone to go to offer some information or just timewaster or misguided person that wanted to offer something? Or even someone who may have been in London on the day and potentially saw something, had forgotten and then Andrew's image had triggered something as only 14 months had passed at that stage.

Another missed opportunity for the inquiry I dare say as just seems too remote a location for someone to time waste imo so there had to be some sort of link.

 

[VelvetDiamante]

1) I don't know the answer but I believe I read that particular Pizza Hut is no longer there.
2) Yes, his father has said his favorite food is Italian food. I remember him saying in an interview they eat Italian food to celebrate Andrew on Andrew's birthday.
3) I can't remember what his father has said about Pizza Hut in particular but the toppings the teenager ordered were consistent with what Andrew usually ordered.
4) I don't think so, because the cashier believed she remembered the type of pizza ordered.

On another note, the YouTube video called "Missing: Andrew Gosden (Interview with Kevin Gosden)" by channel "Jason Hebert..." is worth watching by anyone interested in this case; his father is literally answering questions about the case.

All JMO.

"The Search for Andrew Gosden" video on the Seeking Answers channel is a much better interview with Kevin.
I found Jason Hebert to be incredibly rude and dismissive towards Kevin in his interview!

 

[ChatteringBirds]

"The Search for Andrew Gosden" video on the Seeking Answers channel is a much better interview with Kevin.
I found Jason Hebert to be incredibly rude and dismissive towards Kevin in his interview!

Thanks for posting another link. It's been quite awhile since I saw the interview I posted. I just remember Kevin answering the questions with grace.

 

[dotr]

Chilling final image of 14-year-old who mysteriously vanished at London train station 17 years ago

Here is the final image of Andrew Gosden, who mysteriously vanished after taking a train to central London in 2007 at the age of 14.

www.ladbible.com

2009

Runaway child: 'How can a kid disappear from the face of the earth?’

Eighteen months ago, when Andrew Gosden was 14, he bought a one-way ticket to King's Cross. He has not been seen since. Here family friends talk about his disappearance.

www.dailymail.co.uk

''If you’d stepped inside this house two years ago, you’d have found the perfect family – the kind supposedly now ‘dying out’. Dad and mum were speech therapists, Kevin working with brain-injured adults and Glenys with special needs children.

They lived modestly, bought nothing on credit, and gave 15 per cent of their income to charities. Though committed Christians, they chose not to have Andrew and his sister Charlotte (now 15 and 17) baptised, as they wanted them to be free to choose for themselves. (And when both children opted, in their teens, to stop going to church, there was no argument from their parents.)''

Glenys and Kevin Gosden
The Gosdens ate together as a family. Charlotte and Andrew have probably already visited more British museums and places of natural beauty than most UK adults. Until relatively recently there was no computer in the house, nor pressure from the children to get one. Just three months before Andrew went missing, Kevin had bought a computer for Charlotte’s birthday, to help with her A-levels.

 

[Sarahlou]

Hoping that this question is not too insensitive, but have wondered if Andrew's parents divorced after he went missing, or if it was already in the works?
Kids can respond to that situation in surprising ways, imo, speculation.

They are still together.

 

[dotr]

They are still together.

oops, better erase my post, thank you!

 

[ChatteringBirds]

Not related to Andrew's case, but I just saw an article about an 11-year-old girl being searched for right now who slipped into the Thames from "Bargehouse Causeway." Other children saw it and raised the alarm. Tragically they are seeking to recover her at this point. It makes me wonder how many people accidentally fall into the Thames each year.

Missing people from London who disappeared without a trace

Despite numerous appeals by the Met Police and families, several have been missing for decades

www.mylondon.news

"According to charity Missing People, 99 Londoners are listed as being missing for more than three years..." It's a lot of people but maybe not for such a huge city.

Andrew wasn't mentioned in this particular article, but it also has me pondering if any other case could possibly be related to his -- if there was someone involved in his disappearance.

 

[Mrs Marple]

It strikes me that Andrew was irritable that morning. It doesn't sound like he was looking forward to something. I wonder if he was fed up and it was a spur of the moment decision to bunk off school.

 

[ChatteringBirds]

It strikes me that Andrew was irritable that morning. It doesn't sound like he was looking forward to something. I wonder if he was fed up and it was a spur of the moment decision to bunk off school.

I agree. Since it was out of character for him, it had to mean something. Hearing from my teen about the awful things teens say and do to each other nowadays, and remembering my own teen years, I absolutely believe this amazing boy was fed up.