UK UK - Andrew Gosden, 14, Doncaster, South Yorks, 14 Sep 2007 #2

[Cardgame]

His absence would be noticed by the adults during the weekend. No confirmation the adults would be notified if he missed that school day.

Sure but he was allowed to be absent during the weekend. His parents had encouraged him to go to London alone. He was 14 and could surely have manufactured a weekend plan fairly easily and gotten away with it?

To risk bunking off school, it's such a high stakes thing to do for a kid with an otherwise perfect attendance.

 

[lebvidox]

Sure but he was allowed to be absent during the weekend. His parents had encouraged him to go to London alone. He was 14 and could surely have manufactured a weekend plan fairly easily and gotten away with it?

To risk bunking off school, it's such a high stakes thing to do for a kid with an otherwise perfect attendance.

He didn't want to tell his parents.

 

[Cardgame]

The circumstances here - a break from the routine - makes the case unusual for other missing children cases.

SBM.

yes this is what is so baffling. To deviate so wildly from a routine, in such a big way, but for there to be no record of any communication made with anyone, no plans left behind, no letters or scribbled addresses in a diary, he didn't tell anyone he was going, and his parents hadn't noticed any strange behaviour beforehand. Surely if he had been organizing via the family landline, or being groomed, he would have been on the phone more, or staying out more. Something!

This bit does make me wonder if the police missed something at the time. Whether online or offline, the fact that he did something so dramatic and left zero trace is really, really strange and sad.

 

[lebvidox]

Sure but he was allowed to be absent during the weekend. His parents had encouraged him to go to London alone. He was 14 and could surely have manufactured a weekend plan fairly easily and gotten away with it?

To risk bunking off school, it's such a high stakes thing to do for a kid with an otherwise perfect attendance.

More on that...

The concern of ‘leaving for the weekend’ only applies if his original plan was always to leave for a couple of days. If he had planned to come back Friday night, there’s no reason to convince mom and dad to let you go to London with grandma to watch over you and pick you up at the station and put you on the train Sunday night etc.

He really was risking nothing in terms of ‘perfect attendance’. What, he'll 'ruin' his record by not going to school once, and the school can't even confirm is it's a sickness absence or what not? The school obviously could even reach the parents. He would get away with this EASILY if he came back by Friday night. Like I suspect he got away with previous transgressions before.

 

[lebvidox]

SBM.

yes this is what is so baffling. To deviate so wildly from a routine, in such a big way, but for there to be no record of any communication made with anyone, no plans left behind, no letters or scribbled addresses in a diary, he didn't tell anyone he was going, and his parents hadn't noticed any strange behaviour beforehand. Surely if he had been organizing via the family landline, or being groomed, he would have been on the phone more, or staying out more. Something!

This bit does make me wonder if the police missed something at the time. Whether online or offline, the fact that he did something so dramatic and left zero trace is really, really strange and sad.

Everybody missed something. The police, the family, everybody.

 

[Cardgame]

More on that...

The concern of ‘leaving for the weekend’ only applies if his original plan was always to leave for a couple of days. If he had planned to come back Friday night, there’s no reason to convince mom and dad to let you go to London with grandma to watch over you and pick you up at the station and put you on the train Sunday night etc.

He really was risking nothing in terms of ‘perfect attendance’. What, he'll 'ruin' his record by not going to school once, and the school can't even confirm is it's a sickness absence or what not? The school obviously could even reach the parents. He would get away with this EASILY if he came back by Friday night. Like I suspect he got away with previous transgressions before.

I don't disagree but I'm thinking of patterns. My guess, speculation only, is that kids with perfect attendance could be supposed to be obedient, compliant and put school high on their list of priorities.

Based on his actions, one could easily suppose that AG had done this kind of thing before, and perhaps he had (lies to his parents at the weekend or in the evening). But we know for sure he'd never done it and skipped school because the school have a record.

So whatever the plan, it was worth a big risk IMO. And it required a high level of secrecy and planning.

JMO but feels less likely it was spontaneous, or that he had done this exact plan before.

ETA : sorry forgot to say the thing I meant to say in the first place, which is that only speaking personally for me, playing truant is definitely a big deal, to us as grown ups it doesn't seem like 'a big risk' , but yes I do think it was. MOo etc etc!!! Maybe I was just a teenage wimp lol. Not for attendance record purposes, but because it moves you from the category of 'good kid' to 'naughty kid' in one fell swoop!

 

[lebvidox]

I don't disagree but I'm thinking of patterns. My guess, speculation only, is that kids with perfect attendance could be supposed to be obedient, compliant and put school high on their list of priorities.

Based on his actions, one could easily suppose that AG had done this kind of thing before, and perhaps he had (lies to his parents at the weekend or in the evening). But we know for sure he'd never done it and skipped school because the school have a record.

So whatever the plan, it was worth a big risk IMO. And it required a high level of secrecy and planning.

JMO but feels less likely it was spontaneous, or that he had done this exact plan before.

We don't know what his pattern was. We don't know if his pattern was to come home straight from school or his parents just thought so because they never caught them on a 'lie' until that day, one week before he went missing, when he said 'he walked home because it was such a beautiful day'. And a summer break is more than enough for a 14 year old to change habits. The 'perfect attendance record' should be judged in the context of 8 school days. He was spreading his wings before, if you ask me.

 

[Cardgame]

We don't know what his pattern was. We don't know if his pattern was to come home straight from school or his parents just thought so because they never caught them on a 'lie' until that day, one week before he went missing, when he said 'he walked home because it was such a beautiful day'. And a summer break is more than enough for a 14 year old to change habits. The 'perfect attendance record' should be judged in the context of 8 school days. He was spreading his wings before, if you ask me.

Yes this is a very good point.

What happened that summer? Something changed. He met someone.

 

[lebvidox]

Yes this is a very good point.

What happened that summer? Something changed. He met someone.

I have a few theories that I've shared here before, about people he could have gotten close to (or rekindled a relationship) in that timeframe.

The parents can't bring themselves to think they might have missed something. Andrew was 110% truthful all the time, in their view.... Oh well.

That's why I say: either Andrew was a normal teenager like the expert judge has described and the parents are just a bit naive, or Andrew had serious developmental issues and was being totally sheltered by these people.

 

[davidt]

SBM.

yes this is what is so baffling. To deviate so wildly from a routine, in such a big way, but for there to be no record of any communication made with anyone, no plans left behind, no letters or scribbled addresses in a diary, he didn't tell anyone he was going, and his parents hadn't noticed any strange behaviour beforehand. Surely if he had been organizing via the family landline, or being groomed, he would have been on the phone more, or staying out more. Something!

This bit does make me wonder if the police missed something at the time. Whether online or offline, the fact that he did something so dramatic and left zero trace is really, really strange and sad.

I have a bit of a different take. One of the things we don't know is what came first. The decision to bunk off school or the decision to go to London. It's all a bit "chicken and egg".

So, for me the question is, is this something Andrew planned or was it spontaneous on the morning in question? Currently I lean towards it being spontaneous rather than planned. I'll try and explain why I currently think this way. Andrew has been described as academically very bright but potentially vulnerable and absent minded. Each time I read that, inside I'm screaming, tell me more! Specifically in what ways was he potentially vulnerable and how did his absent mindedness manifest itself?

Being absent minded might be an easy reason why he didn't take his charger cable with him for example. But are there any examples of his prior absent mindedness anywhere? How bad was it? I'm thinking if he truly was that way it increases the chances he would have left clues behind if he'd been planning anything. Or let something slip to his schoolmates etc. Yet there's nothing at all. Obviously if it was spontaneous there's much less chance of leaving anything behind and wouldn't necessitate deceiving his parents or hiding things etc. Up to the point he decides to bunk off there's nothing to give anything away.

The second area for me is Andrew's mood that day. It's said he was moody when he woke up that morning and had been grumpy the day (or in some reports the days) beforehand. Could school be the problem here? Was he grumpy because he didn't want to go to school and was getting more reluctant as the week went on. Was Friday the day everything came to a head. Did he set off for school and then part way decide not to go? Perhaps he was being bullied or there was a predatory teacher or something else?

The lack of leaving behind any clues or evidence whatsoever has always bothered me. Be interested to know if anyone has read about his absent mindedness and seen any examples of that or in what way he may have had specific vulnerabilities.

 

[davidt]

There's also a third possibility that recently occurred to me. Is it possible Andrew did set off for school that day but met or bumped in to someone on the way? Perhaps persuading him to do something else instead? How much is known about his movements that morning? I know the vicar saw him at some stage but who else did?

 

[ChatteringBirds]

Everybody missed something. The police, the family, everybody.

Unless he just decided the night before to skip school and go to London for fun, and there wasn't anyone he was meeting.

Yes this is a very good point.

What happened that summer? Something changed. He met someone.

Maybe, but maybe he also just hit a rebellious stage, very common at this age to be tired of rules and to want to rebel some or make completely Independent decisions, and see what happens next.

There's also a third possibility that recently occurred to me. Is it possible Andrew did set off for school that day but met or bumped in to someone on the way? Perhaps persuading him to do something else instead? How much is known about his movements that morning?

It would have had to be a quick meeting, because he was at the ATM getting cash by 8- something. Source: The website his family has set up: Help Us To Find Andrew

I think he had made the decision to go to London at some point before he left his house the first time that morning. Mainly because his father said it was not normally difficult for Andrew to get out of bed and get going in the morning, but this one morning before he went to London -- it was.

So he was possibly anxious and hadn't slept well, in my opinion. Whether because he was thinking about the plan to go to London or because of school issues that then made him decide that very morning to skip school, who knows.

 

[Ennui2025]

The thing that gets me is why weren't the parents notified when Andrew wasn't at school? Could this have been a genuine mistake? I remember reading Andrew's parents' contact details were switched with another parent to a different child at the school. I genuinely think this could be the one thing we've all been overlooking.

 

[Lucy6226]

The thing that gets me is why weren't the parents notified when Andrew wasn't at school? Could this have been a genuine mistake? I remember reading Andrew's parents' contact details were switched with another parent to a different child at the school. I genuinely think this could be the one thing we've all been overlooking.

Yes school error meant they left a voicemail on a different parents number. A huge thing as everyone would have known he was missing earlier. Also by the time CCTV was requested in London a lot of it had already been wiped/written over. Moo

 

[Ennui2025]

Yes school error meant they left a voicemail on a different parents number. A huge thing as everyone would have known he was missing earlier. Also by the time CCTV was requested in London a lot of it had already been wiped/written over. Moo

But what if someone had intentionally changed the number? Did the police investigate if any staff members were off that day?

 

[ChatteringBirds]

The thing that gets me is why weren't the parents notified when Andrew wasn't at school? Could this have been a genuine mistake

I believe it was either a genuine mistake or the school actually failed to call his parents and then made up an excuse.

Because the school would have just called their home landline and left a message anyway. They didn't call his parents' workplaces. So there was no need for someone at the school to switch the numbers or anything like that.

His parents were never going to find out quickly enough to stop whatever chain of events took place. Even if they had returned home for some reason and received the call, realistically it was too late to find him quickly enough. He was always going to make it to London and start exploring before anyone realized that's where he went.

But I suppose there was a tiny chance someone wanted to be absolutely sure his parents didn't get the phone call anyway. Hopefully police has a list of anyone from the school who did not work that day.

 

[Inspector Evans]

There were phone lines you could ring for the information. Else nobody would have attended concerts and gigs before the internet!

Going off a tangent but I presume all the major festivals were on alert for 2008 if perhaps he came to watch. I assume his poster was put there at sites like Download anyway?

Imagine if he's still alive today, surely he'd want to go to some gigs/festivals as these were big passions for him when he disappeared. Read an interview his Dad conducted in 2020 and he also said they'd regularly go to Sheffield to watch Snooker at the Crucible when the World champs were on so seems he liked some sports aswell.

No sightings at all in the years after at some of these events so can only conclude he was massively held against his will or no longer alive.

 

[Inspector Evans]

The thing that gets me is why weren't the parents notified when Andrew wasn't at school? Could this have been a genuine mistake? I remember reading Andrew's parents' contact details were switched with another parent to a different child at the school. I genuinely think this could be the one thing we've all been overlooking.

It's an error for the school but I don't think it's a massive error for the case.

Both parents were out so not sure who would've picked up the phone. Was his sister at University in 2007? I actually started Uni that year the following weekend so this case actually passed me by at the time as was mentally preparing for that and not really following the news in those weeks. Anyway she might or might not have been around so in reality call goes to voicemail and they'd be aware there's a problem around 5pm at which point he's already been in London for over five hours.

Was reported missing Friday evening, police knew for sure he'd gone to London on the following Monday and CCTV at XC with him in it not being viewed for another two weeks says it all for this case, vital time lost in that period which has remained a hinderance every since.

 

[MesquiteO21]

I have a bit of a different take. One of the things we don't know is what came first. The decision to bunk off school or the decision to go to London. It's all a bit "chicken and egg".

(snipped for focus)

i've always just assumed he didn't go to school ("playing hooky" for americans lol) because of a premediated plan to go to London, but you're right, going to London could've been an impulsive decision made after bunking off. i think i lean slightly less toward that scenario just because the odds of there being absolutely zero trace of him from an impulsive decision seems lower than going there with planned forethought and intention, but it's still certainly possible.

MOO

 

[LouTennant]

Seeing as Andrew was a gamer could it be he came to London to play arcade games?. Arcades were a thing in 2007 with the Trocadero in Piccadilly Circus a well known place with the latest arcade games. Also there were others in central London as well.

His plan could have been as simple as visiting arcades for a bit and then heading home but something sinister befell him.

Sorry if this has been discussed but I bunked off school as a kid to visit the Trocadero Arcade in London.