UK UK - Andrew Gosden, 14, Doncaster, South Yorks, 14 Sep 2007 #2

[vagab0nd]

I would be surprised if Andrew knew where the Kings Cross Thameslink station (where trains to Brighton could be boarded) was. It was East of Kings Cross and you had to cross roads to get there. The trains were below ground and the entrance wasn't very prominent. Most people who caught trains there were going north. They arrived by underground and so didn't go up to ground level.

Kings Cross was fairly seedy at that time. There were always a few homeless people hanging around outside the station and drugs were dealt there. There was a very seedy pub with strippers and heroin was a big problem in that area. Just North of Kings Cross was an awful area with disused gasometers etc I think it was around that time that a female Austrian tourist visiting London walked into that area. Some kids attacked her, gang raped her and then threw her into a canal.

This video of the station from 2007 makes it look like just a bog standard station. At first glance you wouldn't get a seedy vibe:

 

[Professor Moriarty]

I quite often left Kings Cross Thameslink and walked West to Euston. This meant I walked across the front of Kings Cross mainline station. Usually I was on the opposite side of the road. When I returned, I was on the same side as Kings Cross mainline station. There would always be people hanging around. I was walking with a purpose and they never bothered me, but I imagine that drug addicts would give off certain signals, hang around and make eye contact with people they thought were dealers. The dealers would do the same.

Young people, possibly homeless, living in squats etc hung around. At some stage, a sort of portacabin was installed as a mini police station. It had one way mirror windows and cctv. Dodgy people still hung around though. As far as most people going about their business were concerned, the area would just seem a bit rough. But a young person hanging around might give off different signals. Someone might "befriend" him.

In the early 1980s Argyle Square, opposite the station, with cheap hotels, was a busy red light district, busy even in daylight. That was cleaned up, partly with traffic measures to stop kerb crawling.

There used to be touts for illegal minicabs approaching people leaving the platforms in the mainline station. Now there are problems with people stealing luggage. (A number of Algerians have been arrested for this.) Jenson Button had luggage, containing valuable items, stolen just outside St. Pancas (which, of course, is next to Kings Cross).

Since Thameslink trains started using St.Pancras, I haven't had to cross Kings Cross station. The whole area is supposed to be being developed. My point is that, historically, the area has always been rough. Around the world, many big railway stations attract "rough" and homeless people. beggars and sex workers. (I recently witnessed this around Geneva railway station.) I suspect that the area behind the station is still somewhat rough.

Most people get off trains and enter the tube system within the station or get taxis from the rank. Some old hands get the bus. When I was young, living in Lincolnshire, and used the Kings Cross mainline station, my father used to warn me not to "look like a plough jockey up from the country". Andrew, leaving the front of the station, possibly looking around, might have been seen in that way.

 

[ChatteringBirds]

A lot of major train stations had and always will have dangerous characters hanging around. But that can be said for a lot of places.... large parks, food courts, anywhere people with bad intentions can sit and hang out and watch people.

I don't think it's more likely something happened at the train station than anywhere else in London.

It was broad daylight, and he wasn't just hanging around the station like a "runaway" might. I don't think it was likely he was approached right after the CCTV footage.

So what I wonder is, what scenario does anyone here think actually could have happened there at King's Cross?

If he was approached and offered most things, I think he would have declined and walked away. He didn't need food, shelter, a ride somewhere, etc. This was a city he loved and had some familiarity with and wanted to explore. He knew how to use the trains and buses.

He declined the return ticket, so he knew how to decline something that didn't interest him.

 

[Sjöberg]

I'm stating the obvious here, but IMO Andrew had a reason for coming to London on that friday and that reason would give us the context of how he acted and where he went next.

He was offered to go to London pretty recently and he did not want to. What made him want to go on that day? Why in secret, not ask? Why let parents get the The Call from school and get in trouble for skipping school?

IMO, the reason to go to London was 1) new enough and 2) would not have gotten the approval of his parents. I don't think was a museum or even a concert - at least just not by itself. To me it really sounds like he went to meet with someone he liked a lot, and that someone was probably not in London during the summer. Like either a student in London, who spent summers back at home or someone moving to London for the first time.

 

[Inspector Evans]

Just a friendly note, if you post AI results, you need to say it's from AI.

I think he might have wanted to walk along the beach for a bit. Why not? Teens have a head full of adventures, sometimes. Also if we think it's possible someone lured him to London, why not Brighton, which is known as a good day trip from London?

Would've needed a further ticket as he asked specifically for London station at Doncaster.

No one remembers him at XC although of course he could've just paid for it on a ticket machine but then that option was available at Doncaster unless it was really busy.

 

[vagab0nd]

Would've needed a further ticket as he asked specifically for London station at Doncaster.

No one remembers him at XC although of course he could've just paid for it on a ticket machine but then that option was available at Doncaster unless it was really busy.

Remember that he was deaf in one ear so maybe he didn't hear the ticket lady and just went with no just to get her to stop talking or to get out of the situation?

Also, I've read metal posts from 2007 that state for the Sikth farewell concert people were not allowed in the venue without ID. This still happens today. I was ID at Brixton Academy in 2015 and like three weeks ago at another venue in London. Andrew had no ID on him so he couldn't have gotten in anyways. Firstly, no evidence he had a ticket to any concert and secondly all bands performing that day in London handed over footage to police and he was not spotted in any of them. You can't just sneak into a concert that asks for ID and where you don't have a ticket.

This is a wild guess, but could a scalper have maybe tried to hurt him if he went around asking for tickets? Unlikely, but I don't know.

 

[vagab0nd]

I'm stating the obvious here, but IMO Andrew had a reason for coming to London on that friday and that reason would give us the context of how he acted and where he went next.

He was offered to go to London pretty recently and he did not want to. What made him want to go on that day? Why in secret, not ask? Why let parents get the The Call from school and get in trouble for skipping school?

IMO, the reason to go to London was 1) new enough and 2) would not have gotten the approval of his parents. I don't think was a museum or even a concert - at least just not by itself. To me it really sounds like he went to meet with someone he liked a lot, and that someone was probably not in London during the summer. Like either a student in London, who spent summers back at home or someone moving to London for the first time.

I'm in agreement with you.

Two things I feel certain of is that he didn't attend a concert. There was no footage of him anywhere. HIM and Sikth both cooperated with the investigation which is something that people fail to remember when talking about this case on YouTube. I also strongly feel he didn't go missing on purpose because he talked to his parents about the Madeleine McCann case when it first hit the news and he seemed genuinely upset about the whole thing. Him and his partners were both in agreement that it was a parent's worst nightmare and he really believed it to be awful. If he knew and had understanding the pain of a missing child would bring to his family or any family, why bring it on purpose? This makes me believe he didn't plan to cause pain to his family. He never planned to be gone long term and now I think there's no way he killed himself. At first I was like maybe he was hiding struggle and pain, but I have a lot of doubts now. I think something genuinely sinister happened to him, but I have no idea how or why. We need to know why he went to London to figure it out. If only smartwatches were a thing because then I assume GPS would easily be trackable.

 

[vagab0nd]

A lot of major train stations had and always will have dangerous characters hanging around. But that can be said for a lot of places.... large parks, food courts, anywhere people with bad intentions can sit and hang out and watch people.

I don't think it's more likely something happened at the train station than anywhere else in London.

It was broad daylight, and he wasn't just hanging around the station like a "runaway" might. I don't think it was likely he was approached right after the CCTV footage.

So what I wonder is, what scenario does anyone here think actually could have happened there at King's Cross?

If he was approached and offered most things, I think he would have declined and walked away. He didn't need food, shelter, a ride somewhere, etc. This was a city he loved and had some familiarity with and wanted to explore. He knew how to use the trains and buses.

He declined the return ticket, so he knew how to decline something that didn't interest him.

I think when you’re 14, you simply don’t think that way. At that age, you aren't constantly looking for the 'evil' in the world. I remember going to New York City on a school trip when I was 12; it never once occurred to me to wander off, nor did I ever feel like someone might be watching us from a window with bad intentions.

Even as an adult, safety isn't always at the forefront of my mind. While I know danger exists, I refuse to let it consume my daily life. I live with the mindset that if something were to happen, there are digital trails—like my Garmin watch data or my online diary—that could help. You can’t spend every second worrying about 'what if.'

I suspect Andrew felt the same. He likely envisioned a 'Ferris Bueller' type of day—an innocent adventure where he’d explore the city and be back at his desk before his parents got home, with no one the wiser. Maybe that’s just a bit of 'childlike wonder' that I haven't outgrown either, but I don't think he was looking for trouble; he was just looking for a day of freedom.

 

[ChatteringBirds]

Would've needed a further ticket as he asked specifically for London station at Doncaster.

Any idea what a ticket to Brighton might have cost to buy in London? Maybe he just got a ticket to London to explore there but spontaneously decided to do the day trip to Brighton, planning to be back in London for the night train back to Doncaster?

Maybe that’s just a bit of 'childlike wonder' that I haven't outgrown either, but I don't think he was looking for trouble; he was just looking for a day of freedom.

Yes, I agree.

 

[warp3dwing]

I'm stating the obvious here, but IMO Andrew had a reason for coming to London on that friday and that reason would give us the context of how he acted and where he went next.

He was offered to go to London pretty recently and he did not want to. What made him want to go on that day? Why in secret, not ask? Why let parents get the The Call from school and get in trouble for skipping school?

IMO, the reason to go to London was 1) new enough and 2) would not have gotten the approval of his parents. I don't think was a museum or even a concert - at least just not by itself. To me it really sounds like he went to meet with someone he liked a lot, and that someone was probably not in London during the summer. Like either a student in London, who spent summers back at home or someone moving to London for the first time.

And speaking of The Call from school:

This was Andrew’s first time skipping school. He likely wouldn’t have known exactly what would happen when he failed to arrive at school without an excuse. For all he knew, the school could’ve immediately reached out to his parents at work, who, in turn, could’ve started an immediate search for Andrew.

The fact that the school seemingly didn’t have the Gosdens’ work numbers and that they called the wrong home number could not have been anticipated.

So, I’m less confident than some that Andrew assumed he’d have time to visit London and return without anyone knowing. It’s really just chance that it took at long as it did for his family to notice his absence.

 

[vagab0nd]

Any idea what a ticket to Brighton might have cost to buy in London? Maybe he just got a ticket to London to explore there but spontaneously decided to do the day trip to Brighton, planning to be back in London for the night train back to Doncaster?



Yes, I agree.

Day return was £22 or single was £38.

 

[vagab0nd]

And speaking of The Call from school:

This was Andrew’s first time skipping school. He likely wouldn’t have known exactly what would happen when he failed to arrive at school without an excuse. For all he knew, the school could’ve immediately reached out to his parents at work, who, in turn, could’ve started an immediate search for Andrew.

The fact that the school seemingly didn’t have the Gosdens’ work numbers and that they called the wrong home number could not have been anticipated.

So, I’m less confident than some that Andrew assumed he’d have time to visit London and return without anyone knowing. It’s really just chance that it took at long as it did for his family to notice his absence.

Maybe, but we have no idea why he went to London.

 

[warp3dwing]

Maybe, but we have no idea why he went to London.

Yes, but what I’m saying is irrespective of that.

Whatever the reason, I think the chances are high he didn’t intend to return home. I struggle to imagine a reason Andrew would cover his tracks, have a “fun day out”, then come home to a house full of distraught family members and police officers.

For all Andrew would have known, his parents could have been alerted of his absence before he even arrived at King’s Cross. It was pure (bad) luck that the Gosden’s didn’t notice him missing until 7pm.

 

[vagab0nd]

Yes, but what I’m saying is irrespective of that.

Whatever the reason, I think the chances are high he didn’t intend to return home. I struggle to imagine a reason Andrew would cover his tracks, have a “fun day out”, then come home to a house full of distraught family members and police officers.

For all Andrew would have known, his parents could have been alerted of his absence before he even arrived at King’s Cross. It was pure (bad) luck that the Gosden’s didn’t notice him missing until 7pm.

I don't want to say anything in depth, but Lancaster is on the West Coast Main Line, it is only about 2.5 hours from London Euston. It is quite common for senior "star" professors to live in London and commute to Lancaster for a few days a week. I have checked and there are two professors that were at Lancaster Uni in 2006 and left to go work at UCL the following year. Yes, they were science professors. Probably just coincidence.

 

[vagab0nd]

I don't want to say anything in depth, but Lancaster is on the West Coast Main Line, it is only about 2.5 hours from London Euston. It is quite common for senior "star" professors to live in London and commute to Lancaster for a few days a week. I have checked and there are two professors that were at Lancaster Uni in 2006 and left to go work at UCL the following year. Yes, they were science professors. Probably just coincidence.

A professor wouldn't risk his career like that or maybe he would. Lots of students at my husband's uni slept with their professors or so he said. I don't know how true that is.

 

[vagab0nd]

These AI videos on YouTube are getting out of hand and now some idiot is posting in factual libel. I hate AI.

 

[vagab0nd]

A professor wouldn't risk his career like that or maybe he would. Lots of students at my husband's uni slept with their professors or so he said. I don't know how true that is.

UCL is a 15min walk away from Kings Cross. I doubt this is even anything though. Maybe he was touring colleges? But who tours colleges on their own without their parents? My mom went with me to look at schools.

 

[Inspector Evans]

Remember that he was deaf in one ear so maybe he didn't hear the ticket lady and just went with no just to get her to stop talking or to get out of the situation?

Also, I've read metal posts from 2007 that state for the Sikth farewell concert people were not allowed in the venue without ID. This still happens today. I was ID at Brixton Academy in 2015 and like three weeks ago at another venue in London. Andrew had no ID on him so he couldn't have gotten in anyways. Firstly, no evidence he had a ticket to any concert and secondly all bands performing that day in London handed over footage to police and he was not spotted in any of them. You can't just sneak into a concert that asks for ID and where you don't have a ticket.

This is a wild guess, but could a scalper have maybe tried to hurt him if he went around asking for tickets? Unlikely, but I don't know.

Normally when people go to ticket booths they ask for a final destination. I live in Sutton Coldfield (North Birmingham U.K) and many times I've been standing in a queue and pretty much every time someone has said they want to go to "Brighton" rather than "can I have a ticket to London please and then what connections to get to Brighton."

So I think Andrew would've enquired to do that rather than just say London to the ticket lady personally.

Yes on the gig theory I do think it is plausible he could've withdrawn that amount as he fancied watching a gig. Back in that era many top tier gig events were in £20-30 range so not like it was a massive dent in his budget. Maybe he thought he could just turn up on the night and pay to get in. Found out it was sold out and in desperation encountered a tout who perhaps realised his vulnerability.

Of course you'd expect some witnesses to any conversation but this could've happened away from gig venue. And this person hasn't come forward because they perhaps then offered Andrew a bed for the night and then did a terrible thing to him shortly afterwards.

 

[Inspector Evans]

Any idea what a ticket to Brighton might have cost to buy in London? Maybe he just got a ticket to London to explore there but spontaneously decided to do the day trip to Brighton, planning to be back in London for the night train back to Doncaster?



Yes, I agree.

For next week on trainline.com a return ticket from London XC to Brighton is £23.90 (off peak day return).

So with inflation maybe £15 return in 2007? I remember when I first went to London in the late 90s day travelcards were only about £7. Was in London last week and they are now £16.60 for Bus, Train, DLR, Tube, Thameslink etc.

He took out pretty much all of his savings so there must've been some budgeting and calculating in his mind for what he was going to spend the £200 on once he got the train from Donny which accounted for about 20% of that total.

 

[vagab0nd]

Normally when people go to ticket booths they ask for a final destination. I live in Sutton Coldfield (North Birmingham U.K) and many times I've been standing in a queue and pretty much every time someone has said they want to go to "Brighton" rather than "can I have a ticket to London please and then what connections to get to Brighton."

So I think Andrew would've enquired to do that rather than just say London to the ticket lady personally.

Yes on the gig theory I do think it is plausible he could've withdrawn that amount as he fancied watching a gig. Back in that era many top tier gig events were in £20-30 range so not like it was a massive dent in his budget. Maybe he thought he could just turn up on the night and pay to get in. Found out it was sold out and in desperation encountered a tout who perhaps realised his vulnerability.

Of course you'd expect some witnesses to any conversation but this could've happened away from gig venue. And this person hasn't come forward because they perhaps then offered Andrew a bed for the night and then did a terrible thing to him shortly afterwards.

But history father always took him to any and all gigs he wanted to see. He also didn't have ID on him. Why would he go to this one gig behind his parents back and without ID? You need ID to enter most gig venues.