UK UK - Andrew Gosden, 14, Doncaster, South Yorks, 14 Sep 2007 #2

[ChatteringBirds]

I think this is an updated LE page for Andrew, with a link for providing concrete information:

Public Portal

 

[submarine7]

Tragic case and his father's grief is so painfully real. I've always believed that Andrew was lured to London under the guise of meeting a girl. I think he was catfished by a predator he met online. I know the claim is there was no evidence of online activity but I believe he had an online life.

He may have believed he was meeting another young man but I lean towards a girl. He was 14 and sheltered and the perfect victim. I think he was told a father or brother would fetch him from the station. I think he was fatally harmed the same day he went missing or soon after.

I also believe there is something to the man who appeared at the police station to report knowledge of Andrew's case. Of course, he disappeared and purportedly surfaced again in communications with the BBC denying he had info. I think he does.

 

[beubeubeu]

Sorry, I was misunderstood. All I'm saying is that Andrew could have kept secrets from his family and things that seemed out of character back when he was younger could have changed when he was 14. He could even have a long distance girlfriend in London he was trying to meet. The reason for his trip could have been an innocent thing like that. We're you all upfront to your parents about your first romantic interest? My parents knew nothing about it!

What happened after his arrival is anyone's guess. I agree that it is very unlikely he is still alive and willingly staying hidden.

Nobodys all upfront to parents about everything even with the best relationship possible and even without anything bad or risky going on cause not everything you share right away, not everything you feel a need to share, not everything feels like it needs to be shared at all.
Since not only parents but nobody else knowing what was going on with that trip, there obviously had to be some secret going on but that might be even "smaller" than having some friend, unknown to his family.

I think this is an updated LE page for Andrew, with a link for providing concrete information:

Public Portal

I dont think thats good that his most recognisable pics are these where he looks so much younger.
Like this:

Maybe it wasnt taken much earlier than he disappeared but that and that:

he looks like a total child there. Like 10-11 yo child.

Not so much anymore here, on the pic with dad and sister. Thats obviously a young teenager.

That little pic below shows his facial features well, but again - he still appear to have a bit of baby face there.
Doesnt look like that at all on these low quality surveillance footage shots.

I mean like... having that full collage of pics, it delivers a pretty good idea how Andrew looked like.

BUT just that first pic, or second, or third...
I seriously doubt that if I saw a boy from pic 4 or 5 I would recognize thats same missing person from pics 1, 2 or/and 3. I'd brush it off, like nah, that boy just looks similar, Im supposed to look out for a boy who looks super young for his age. But was he? At all? Or just at times maybe?

He totally looks like 14 yo for me on the pics below. Like yea, some boys at 14 already look like bit smaller version of a lumberjack, but most look kinda like that.

And this:

is just ridiculous to me. And totally irresponsible to put something like this out there.
Yes, it grabs more attention, but is it really helpful?
Obviously these four shots below arent what LE or family put out as his MP photos, they seem to be shared just for the sake of giving better idea of his facial features. But as people are sharing the story and putting out something like that.

What if they DID reached the right person with it? What if someone figured that oh, I was in London on 14, I was taking pics all around the place, better look through them cause maybe I caught this kid in the background somewhere... but no, no kid like that.
But Andrew didnt looked like that then anymore. He looked older. Significantly older.
At this point I dont think its a call to spike somebodys memory about what they could possibly SEE on that day and the only chance is the pic having him in background somewhere. Maybe that shirt would help. If he hasnt changed it.

Also weather archive says that on September 14 2007 it was like 15-16*C around 9:00 AM in Doncaster. So 58-60is F. Isnt that bit chilly for just a shirt?
Fine for a day as it got up to 21-22*C/70ish*F afternoon.
But late evening it dropped to like 14*C/56*F.
On the 10th and 11th it was cool/coldish. 12th and 13th kinda comfortable temp afternoon. But then cold/coldish again.

Wouldnt he put on a hoodie if he had a plan to stay somewhere late evening? Maybe he had one in his bag, but that wasnt mentioned anywhere, so might be that no hoodies went missing with him.
Doesnt that hint the assumption that whole trip didnt supposed to last past late afternoon?

 

[vagab0nd]

Nobodys all upfront to parents about everything even with the best relationship possible and even without anything bad or risky going on cause not everything you share right away, not everything you feel a need to share, not everything feels like it needs to be shared at all.
Since not only parents but nobody else knowing what was going on with that trip, there obviously had to be some secret going on but that might be even "smaller" than having some friend, unknown to his family.

I dont think thats good that his most recognisable pics are these where he looks so much younger.
Like this:

View attachment 640960

Maybe it wasnt taken much earlier than he disappeared but that and that:

View attachment 640961

he looks like a total child there. Like 10-11 yo child.

Not so much anymore here, on the pic with dad and sister. Thats obviously a young teenager.

View attachment 640962

That little pic below shows his facial features well, but again - he still appear to have a bit of baby face there.
Doesnt look like that at all on these low quality surveillance footage shots.

I mean like... having that full collage of pics, it delivers a pretty good idea how Andrew looked like.

View attachment 640966

BUT just that first pic, or second, or third...
I seriously doubt that if I saw a boy from pic 4 or 5 I would recognize thats same missing person from pics 1, 2 or/and 3. I'd brush it off, like nah, that boy just looks similar, Im supposed to look out for a boy who looks super young for his age. But was he? At all? Or just at times maybe?

He totally looks like 14 yo for me on the pics below. Like yea, some boys at 14 already look like bit smaller version of a lumberjack, but most look kinda like that.

View attachment 640972

And this:

View attachment 640974View attachment 640975View attachment 640977View attachment 640976

is just ridiculous to me. And totally irresponsible to put something like this out there.
Yes, it grabs more attention, but is it really helpful?
Obviously these four shots below arent what LE or family put out as his MP photos, they seem to be shared just for the sake of giving better idea of his facial features. But as people are sharing the story and putting out something like that.

What if they DID reached the right person with it? What if someone figured that oh, I was in London on 14, I was taking pics all around the place, better look through them cause maybe I caught this kid in the background somewhere... but no, no kid like that.
But Andrew didnt looked like that then anymore. He looked older. Significantly older.
At this point I dont think its a call to spike somebodys memory about what they could possibly SEE on that day and the only chance is the pic having him in background somewhere. Maybe that shirt would help. If he hasnt changed it.

Also weather archive says that on September 14 2007 it was like 15-16*C around 9:00 AM in Doncaster. So 58-60is F. Isnt that bit chilly for just a shirt?
Fine for a day as it got up to 21-22*C/70ish*F afternoon.
But late evening it dropped to like 14*C/56*F.
On the 10th and 11th it was cool/coldish. 12th and 13th kinda comfortable temp afternoon. But then cold/coldish again.

Wouldnt he put on a hoodie if he had a plan to stay somewhere late evening? Maybe he had one in his bag, but that wasnt mentioned anywhere, so might be that no hoodies went missing with him.
Doesnt that hint the assumption that whole trip didnt supposed to last past late afternoon?

It's currently 9°c outside and I'm sweating. I wouldn't wear a jacket at 60F. It would have to be like 5°c for me to wear a jacket. Maybe he wasn't cold or sweats easily?

 

[vagab0nd]

I think this is an updated LE page for Andrew, with a link for providing concrete information:

Public Portal

I hope they got that bathroom graffiti from someone (if it's even true).

 

[vagab0nd]

Tragic case and his father's grief is so painfully real. I've always believed that Andrew was lured to London under the guise of meeting a girl. I think he was catfished by a predator he met online. I know the claim is there was no evidence of online activity but I believe he had an online life.

He may have believed he was meeting another young man but I lean towards a girl. He was 14 and sheltered and the perfect victim. I think he was told a father or brother would fetch him from the station. I think he was fatally harmed the same day he went missing or soon after.

I also believe there is something to the man who appeared at the police station to report knowledge of Andrew's case. Of course, he disappeared and purportedly surfaced again in communications with the BBC denying he had info. I think he does.

I doubt he was looking to meet a girl. He had little interest in dating and no online history. I mean, my husband was born a few months before Andrew and he never spoke to strangers online until his late 20s and wasn't active on social media until university. We can't just make assumptions when there is zero evidence.

 

[vagab0nd]

Thank you, ChatGPT.

Huh? I wrote that myself.

 

[vagab0nd]

Back then I went to a lot of gigs especially around 2008 time and I never once brought ID with me. I don't even recall being asked for it so back then it was different, unless it depends on the area etc. jmo

In London you 100% needed ID for Roundhouse and nearby venues. I was ID last Christmas (luckily I had one on me because nowhere did it say on the ticket to bring it).

 

[vagab0nd]

Sorry, I was misunderstood. All I'm saying is that Andrew could have kept secrets from his family and things that seemed out of character back when he was younger could have changed when he was 14. He could even have a long distance girlfriend in London he was trying to meet. The reason for his trip could have been an innocent thing like that. Were you all upfront to your parents about your first romantic interest? My parents knew nothing about it!

What happened after his arrival is anyone's guess. I agree that it is very unlikely he is still alive and willingly staying hidden.

There's no evidence to suggest he had a penpal via letters.

My parents met my first boyfriend when I was 14. I literally had my first date in my childhood bedroom. My parents were very open people and I felt I could tell them anything because we were like best friends. I would've had no qualms back then telling them about a boy.

 

[vagab0nd]

16 and 14 is huge difference.
And boy and a girl is another huge difference Im afraid.
As I keep checking updates on charleyproject and two big fb groups that share info about missing people...
It happens, it sometimes happens that long lost teenage girl is located or goes to the police station the moment she turns 18 to say that she's okay and safe (the moment there is no way to force her back to what she ran from). I dont recall ever seeing such a news about the boy who went missing. Didnt seem like any of them ran away from home that at least appeared happy and healthy.
Maybe if a boy is big for his age and strong he can survive on illegal jobs and pretending that he's older. But Andrew? No way he could pass as adult. So how could he support himself for at least 3-4 years? Hiding in somebodys home, being supported by that person who by some miracle wasnt a predator?
I dont think that happens...

Again, it's physically impossible to get illegal jobs in the UK. Companies or people are fined £45-60k per illegal worker. Even working on a farm in outside London to pick fruit requires proof of right to work. He had no proof. It's impossible. UK has one of the strictest laws on illegal working. Hell, even my first job in this country wouldn't let me work unless I supplied my last W-2 from the US. I was like I don't have that and they failed my probation so I couldn't get that job.

 

[vagab0nd]

The black and white photo of someone looking like Andrew crossing the street outside a Sainsbury's Local has now been debunked.

 

[vagab0nd]

Nobodys all upfront to parents about everything even with the best relationship possible and even without anything bad or risky going on cause not everything you share right away, not everything you feel a need to share, not everything feels like it needs to be shared at all.
Since not only parents but nobody else knowing what was going on with that trip, there obviously had to be some secret going on but that might be even "smaller" than having some friend, unknown to his family.

I dont think thats good that his most recognisable pics are these where he looks so much younger.
Like this:

View attachment 640960

Maybe it wasnt taken much earlier than he disappeared but that and that:

View attachment 640961

he looks like a total child there. Like 10-11 yo child.

Not so much anymore here, on the pic with dad and sister. Thats obviously a young teenager.

View attachment 640962

That little pic below shows his facial features well, but again - he still appear to have a bit of baby face there.
Doesnt look like that at all on these low quality surveillance footage shots.

I mean like... having that full collage of pics, it delivers a pretty good idea how Andrew looked like.

View attachment 640966

BUT just that first pic, or second, or third...
I seriously doubt that if I saw a boy from pic 4 or 5 I would recognize thats same missing person from pics 1, 2 or/and 3. I'd brush it off, like nah, that boy just looks similar, Im supposed to look out for a boy who looks super young for his age. But was he? At all? Or just at times maybe?

He totally looks like 14 yo for me on the pics below. Like yea, some boys at 14 already look like bit smaller version of a lumberjack, but most look kinda like that.

View attachment 640972

And this:

View attachment 640974View attachment 640975View attachment 640977View attachment 640976

is just ridiculous to me. And totally irresponsible to put something like this out there.
Yes, it grabs more attention, but is it really helpful?
Obviously these four shots below arent what LE or family put out as his MP photos, they seem to be shared just for the sake of giving better idea of his facial features. But as people are sharing the story and putting out something like that.

What if they DID reached the right person with it? What if someone figured that oh, I was in London on 14, I was taking pics all around the place, better look through them cause maybe I caught this kid in the background somewhere... but no, no kid like that.
But Andrew didnt looked like that then anymore. He looked older. Significantly older.
At this point I dont think its a call to spike somebodys memory about what they could possibly SEE on that day and the only chance is the pic having him in background somewhere. Maybe that shirt would help. If he hasnt changed it.

Also weather archive says that on September 14 2007 it was like 15-16*C around 9:00 AM in Doncaster. So 58-60is F. Isnt that bit chilly for just a shirt?
Fine for a day as it got up to 21-22*C/70ish*F afternoon.
But late evening it dropped to like 14*C/56*F.
On the 10th and 11th it was cool/coldish. 12th and 13th kinda comfortable temp afternoon. But then cold/coldish again.

Wouldnt he put on a hoodie if he had a plan to stay somewhere late evening? Maybe he had one in his bag, but that wasnt mentioned anywhere, so might be that no hoodies went missing with him.
Doesnt that hint the assumption that whole trip didnt supposed to last past late afternoon?

I've seen pictures of my husband in his school uniform when he was 14 and his face literally looks the same now at 32 except he has a beard that he shaves off regularly. The only difference is stubble. Some people just don't age that fast. I looked 24 at age 14 and now at 36 people think I'm still in secondary school.

 

[beubeubeu]

Again, it's physically impossible to get illegal jobs in the UK. Companies or people are fined £45-60k per illegal worker. Even working on a farm in outside London to pick fruit requires proof of right to work. He had no proof. It's impossible. UK has one of the strictest laws on illegal working. Hell, even my first job in this country wouldn't let me work unless I supplied my last W-2 from the US. I was like I don't have that and they failed my probation so I couldn't get that job.

No it wasnt "physically impossible". Plenty of people were going for work in UK and about half of them got cheated or scammed at least once with the job being not legal instead of legal + then preying on people who didnt have a choice or enough money to get back. Indeed it was happening much less in UK than in other countries but it certainly was happening.

 

[beubeubeu]

I've seen pictures of my husband in his school uniform when he was 14 and his face literally looks the same now at 32 except he has a beard that he shaves off regularly. The only difference is stubble. Some people just don't age that fast. I looked 24 at age 14 and now at 36 people think I'm still in secondary school.

Yup. And i know a girl who had exactly same face as a baby as she had at 30+. Andrew's face changed a bit and on some of these pics hes obviously younger. Pre teen on these few shared on sm as mp awareness.

 

[vagab0nd]

No it wasnt "physically impossible". Plenty of people were going for work in UK and about half of them got cheated or scammed at least once with the job being not legal instead of legal + then preying on people who didnt have a choice or enough money to get back. Indeed it was happening much less in UK than in other countries but it certainly was happening.

I think there's a 100% chance that Andrew did not get caught up in doing illegal work or meeting someone to talk about a job. Maybe college admission stuff, but definitely nothing to do with working.

 

[vagab0nd]

No it wasnt "physically impossible". Plenty of people were going for work in UK and about half of them got cheated or scammed at least once with the job being not legal instead of legal + then preying on people who didnt have a choice or enough money to get back. Indeed it was happening much less in UK than in other countries but it certainly was happening.

Here's some statistics: Fraud Act 2006 - Explanatory Notes

 

[submarine7]

I doubt he was looking to meet a girl. He had little interest in dating and no online history. I mean, my husband was born a few months before Andrew and he never spoke to strangers online until his late 20s and wasn't active on social media until university. We can't just make assumptions when there is zero evidence.

How do you know he had little interest in dating? I know what we've been told about Andrew and I think his family knew him well but most teenagers don't share everything with their parents and Andrew's disappearance proves that.

In my mind, Andrew would only lose his no absence status for something very important to him. Regardless, I just feel he communicated with somebody who harmed him.

 

[Konstantin]

How do you know he had little interest in dating? I know what we've been told about Andrew and I think his family knew him well but most teenagers don't share everything with their parents and Andrew's disappearance proves that.

In my mind, Andrew would only lose his no absence status for something very important to him. Regardless, I just feel he communicated with somebody who harmed him.

His father wondered and even spoke about the possibility of him being gay and made a point of saying he was cool with that if so. That probably didn't come out of nowhere.

 

[vagab0nd]

His father wondered and even spoke about the possibility of him being gay and made a point of saying he was cool with that if so. That probably didn't come out of nowhere.

It was a suggestion by LE.

 

[vagab0nd]

How do you know he had little interest in dating? I know what we've been told about Andrew and I think his family knew him well but most teenagers don't share everything with their parents and Andrew's disappearance proves that.

In my mind, Andrew would only lose his no absence status for something very important to him. Regardless, I just feel he communicated with somebody who harmed him.

But how did he communicate? It wasn't online. It wasn't via post. I'm not convinced.