UK UK - Andrew Gosden, 14, Doncaster, South Yorks, 14 Sep 2007 #2

[Inspector Evans]

Looks like it was around £130 so he would have enough money with him depending on what else he may have spent money on.

That's the thing with the cash withdrawl that morning.

It was way over what you'd take over for just train down and a few hours walking around. To me if he really was just going down with intention to come back late afternoon then £100 would suffice.

He'd travelled down to London many times before so assume he could see the tickets and know how much a single or return would cost.

Think there are two parts to this. He went down to get something AND/OR go to some event that held his interest and possibly knew someone there who'd look after him for the night otherwise the request for single makes no sense as you don't go down to London to buy a new playstation and not just get a return ticket.

 

[Cedars]

... the request for single makes no sense as you don't go down to London to buy a new playstation and not just get a return ticket.

In general, I think it's very difficult to get inside the head of a 14 year old.

Return tickets usually involve deciding on a paricular train you're going to take for your return. Maybe, for eg, he just wasn't grown up enough to plan in advance, like (some) adults do.

JMO

 

[avob00]

If Andrew did go to London to buy the PSP, the major Games store was located on Oxford St.

The supposed sighting of Andrew eating alone at Pizza Hut was on Oxford St

Had he gone there after or before buying the new console?

I know a lot overlook this theory as he could’ve just bought the console in Doncaster after school in the shopping center, but there would’ve been a way bigger buzz for the launch in London.

Pat’s video was good but unfortunately she made a massive error of asssuming the young gifted camp was 2 weeks before he went missing when it was in 2006. Little annoying as she keeps referring back to the camp as being sufficient since she thinks it was 2 weeks prior. There is even a very blurry photo of Andrew on Reddit at the 2006 camp.

 

[CSherwood85]

Those friends wouldn't be far off 30 now and many would have families so yes I'm sure plenty would think of him at various times of the year particularly around September.

I assume police did all the background checks at his school at the time if he'd said anything to a close classmate even if it was just a hint of what was to come.

Time passes and people move on but would be interesting their thoughts.

The friends would be far more likely to disclose any information 9 years on, almost 30's.
Something they were scared to mention as 15 year olds or something they didnt think was concerning then, can certainly be concerning to an adult, especially one that may have children etc.
They may not even know they innocently withheld a vital piece of information then and if re interviewed now, could provide a vital lead.
I have 3 sons aged 18, 20 and 21, I cant begin to imagine what his parents are going through. They need to bring their baby home now, however that may be.

 

[submarine7]

The friends would be far more likely to disclose any information 9 years on, almost 30's.
Something they were scared to mention as 15 year olds or something they didnt think was concerning then, can certainly be concerning to an adult, especially one that may have children etc.
They may not even know they innocently withheld a vital piece of information then and if re interviewed now, could provide a vital lead.
I have 3 sons aged 18, 20 and 21, I cant begin to imagine what his parents are going through. They need to bring their baby home now, however that may be.

I know Kevin really likes the current investigator in charge of Andrews's case, and I wonder if he did revisit any people who were questioned at the time of his disappearance? I agree that perspectives can change a lot with age. It's such a tragic case.

His parents seem like such wonderful, loving people. I definitely think about them and think they've shown such strength throughout this entire situation. I know it's not the same as having their son back, but it seems they have found real joy with their grandchildren.

This case is such a mystery, and I hate to say it, but I don't believe there will ever be answers. It's one of the worst fates I can imagine for parents.

 

[ChatteringBirds]

There might eventually be an answer. Every once in awhile an older missing person's case is solved. Especially in a country where there is a team dedicated to the case and DNA testing is used. There are places in the world where it would probably be hopeless but not England/UK. My hope anyway.

 

[submarine7]

There might eventually be an answer. Every once in awhile an older missing person's case is solved. Especially in a country where there is a team dedicated to the case and DNA testing is used. There are places in the world where it would probably be hopeless but not England/UK. My hope anyway.

You're right and we never know what can happen. I definitely pray they get those answers. I can tend toward the negative but hope is a much better feeling. If only we were magic.

 

[Inspector Evans]

In general, I think it's very difficult to get inside the head of a 14 year old.

Return tickets usually involve deciding on a paricular train you're going to take for your return. Maybe, for eg, he just wasn't grown up enough to plan in advance, like (some) adults do.

JMO

Well that morning he planned to take the day off from his normal routine. He planned to go out as normal and then go to the park and wait it out for his parents to leave and then go back and take off his school uniform and put on casual clothes. And then go to the station and take the train to London.

Doubt that was all spur of the moment actions. Now if you're a psychologist looking at it you do study not taking a return ticket when offered so that would indicate doubt to me whether he planned to return that day.

But as ever we stumble head first into a brick wall as just who was he meeting down there to effectively come back at later date given there was no known method of him getting back by others means aside from train.

 

[Cedars]

Well that morning he planned to take the day off from his normal routine. He planned to go out as normal and then go to the park and wait it out for his parents to leave and then go back and take off his school uniform and put on casual clothes. And then go to the station and take the train to London.

Of course. But presumably that was from excitedly anticipating whatever he was going to do.

I'm not saying Andrew had a criminal mind (since he was only 14), but we see thousands of adult criminals who get caught, because they are so eager to plan for the gratification part, but fail to plan for what do afterwards.

I think he was planning to come home - he didn't take any clothes, his extra money, etc...

JMO

 

[avob00]

The friends would be far more likely to disclose any information 9 years on, almost 30's.
Something they were scared to mention as 15 year olds or something they didnt think was concerning then, can certainly be concerning to an adult, especially one that may have children etc.
They may not even know they innocently withheld a vital piece of information then and if re interviewed now, could provide a vital lead.
I have 3 sons aged 18, 20 and 21, I cant begin to imagine what his parents are going through. They need to bring their baby home now, however that may be.

I still wonder why Andrew’s friend group in school never spoke years later. Even though they were just people he spent time with in the classroom and not outside. As I know Kevin said he didn’t go out much with friends.

Totally understandable at the time as they would’ve only been 14/15 years old and I imagine also introvert like him. Even just anonymously for their privacy or a written piece of the news articles in recent years. Kevin said he did have friends in school but it would be nice to hear from them.

But very unlikely they will recall anything years later unless Andrew told them something in conversation that stuck at the time. I don’t believe he told anyone about his purpose for London which makes it impossible to conduct any sort of investigation with this case.

I do think the PSP theory and experience of a big launch in London (launches were crazy hyped up years ago) are more plausible than him somehow talking to someone online/his PSP and wiping the data.

The lad who spoke in the 2009 article was the vicar’s son. I really didn’t get the impression he knew Andrew bar being an acquaintance at a young age at church. The girl in the article knew Andrew only when they were younger in primary school.

If the PSP theory is true, as to what happens next could be anything. But I couldn’t see a robbery or abduction happening in central London. It would’ve had to been in the zones further out imo!

 

[Professor Moriarty]

Why did he go outside of Kings Cross? There was a tube station entrance inside. (There was one outside too.) Hardly any visitors from outside London catch buses. Black cabs are expensive.

 

[Ellymoo]

I can't remember if I've said it on here before (forgive me if I have) but I remember at least once panicking when asked about getting a return ticket and not being 100% sure what I sould say, so I said "single" when I actually meant return. If Andrew were going to get a PSP, he'll have been hyped up and excited and not necessarily thinking straight.

Also if he bought something expensive like that, he could have been seen counting the cash, and jumped on - or jumped on after buying it.

 

[Inspector Evans]

Why did he go outside of Kings Cross? There was a tube station entrance inside. (There was one outside too.) Hardly any visitors from outside London catch buses. Black cabs are expensive.

Maybe to just have a walk around.

It was a nice sunny September day wasn't it? Also like many he was probably undiagosed Neurodivergent individual and many of us don't always like being in crowded enclosed places like the Tube.

Maybe I'm wrong on that but would be interesting to know when he went with his family to London did they use the tube or get to central destinations just walking around?

A walk, have a Pizza in Oxford Street as speculated and then the trail runs cold for what happened next.

 

[Mrs Marple]

Its a 40 minute walk from King's Cross to Oxford St. Possible with the timescale.

 

[matchaoatmilk]

I’m going to watch Pat Brown's video now. I think it is possible that he went to London for the PSP. Usually the simplest explanations are the correct ones. There is no evidence of any communication with anyone and apart from the long walk from school to home the Tuesday before his disappearance, there’s nothing out of character from him. He helped paint the gate of his house with Kevin the weekend before his disappearance.

But why did he decide to go behind his parents back to do this? Why didn't he just tell them he wanted to go to London at the weekend to get the PSP? His father was begging him to go to London over the summer and enjoy his time there and he declined. I don’t think they would’ve had a problem with him going to get it. He could have gone at the weekend and got it and his parents seems very grand about him getting what he wanted. He already had the Xbox, had a load of video games, and his existing PSP. By all accounts, Kevin provided him with anything he expressed interest in - material or experience-wise.

I don't understand why he decided not to tell anybody and go to London and do that. Was it a robbery that happened after he made a purchase? If so, how did nobody see him being robbed and hurt in central London. He was a very intelligent boy with maturity beyond his years, and I don’t see him just getting into a stranger’s car.

I'm sorry, but if he went to London for a new PSP then why did he not return home? When I was 17/18 I'd go to midnight launch events with my then boyfriend for video games and various consoles and we made it home in one piece. Why not Andrew? I'm confused about that.

 

[Cedars]

I'm sorry, but if he went to London for a new PSP then why did he not return home? When I was 17/18 I'd go to midnight launch events with my then boyfriend for video games and various consoles and we made it home in one piece. Why not Andrew? I'm confused about that.

Clearly, something bad happened to him in London.

Just because I haven't been murdered, or died in an accident, doesn't mean no one else has.

 

[Deleted member 375700]

1. I don't think the answer will ever be found because the evidence no longer exists.
2. The British Transport Police (BTP) claim they could not locate Andrew despite knowing the exact train he was on.
3. This task is what BTP is set up to do. Their claim is analogous to a surgeon performing the wrong operation on a patient. It is a level of incompetence that cannot be explained away (and never has).
4. The BTP failed to request any footage from the surrounding area.
5. The SYP detective attended after 27 days (just when all CCTV was being deleted) and coincidentally found Andrew in minutes.
6. Two men were arrested in 2021.
7. Shortly before they were released, SYP deleted 96,000 pieces of evidence.
8. Anyone who has worked in IT knows that deleting 96,000 files requires intent and constant monitoring. It is impossible to do this "accidently".
9. The two men were released shortly after.
10. This pattern is consistent with people "at the coalface" doing their job whilst actors above them in the same organisations remove the evidence.
11. The UK police has a documented history of this where "self-preservation" led to the disappearance or "mishandling" of records. (e.g., Jean-Charles De-Menezes, the Hillsborough inquests or the Stephen Lawrence inquiry, to name but a few).

 

[Ellymoo]

Why would they delete the evidence? Did a policeman kill Andrew?

 

[ChatteringBirds]

1. I don't think the answer will ever be found because the evidence no longer exists.

Do you have a reason to think no evidence at all could still exist? CCTV from London may be gone but if a crime occurred, there could still be a witness, the perpetrator themself, evidence they left behind somewhere, etc.

2. The British Transport Police (BTP) claim they could not locate Andrew despite knowing the exact train he was on.
3. This task is what BTP is set up to do. Their claim is analogous to a surgeon performing the wrong operation on a patient. It is a level of incompetence that cannot be explained away (and never has)

Without hearing their side, this seems like a very good point, IMO. I would be interested in how many people at BTP made the attempt and how long they looked. Did they look over and over for hours, knowing the exact train, and he had to be there, and somehow they missed him through multiple viewings? Or did they just do a quick lame attempt, not really caring much? What really happened that day?

 

[Cedars]

In 2007 there just wasn't the data storage capacity there is now. A major breakthrough that year was a 1 TB hard drive. It cost today's equivalent of £680. Many places were still using vhs tape technology.

British Transport police sounds like police who are focussed on problematic incidents that happen on transit - muggings, (in 2007, terrorist attacks), into which they immediately intervene. Since nothing appears to have happened on the train, I think it was a mistake to assume they should be in charge of the search for a missing boy who could be anywhere. IMO, London police should have been the major partner searching CCTV inside and outside the station, since he had clearly bought a ticket to London.

The truth is, they all probably assumed he was a runaway, and would show up. Not the ideal, but it's happened in many, many cases.

JMO