GUILTY UK - Arrest in 1987 'Bedsit Murders' of Wendy Knell, 25, and Caroline Pierce, 20, in Kent

[Whitehall 1212]

IMO, Wendy's murder was too "slick" to be his first ever murder, if that makes sense. No-one heard anything, he was quick, knew where to strike and certainly did not hesitate.

Was it "slick" though? The features of Wendy's killing, that we know about, would, I feel, place it into the FBI serial killer category of "disorganised".

I know that DF does not fit the category of serial killer, with our knowledge of the extent of his murderous offending, but he was well on the way.

What leads me to think that Wendy was his first victim is that he attacked her in her home and left her body in situ, with all the forensic opportunities available, even at the time. I'm not convinced that DF intended to kill when he entered the flat.

This makes me believe that it is more likely that he was in the bedsit when she arrived home. He disabled her immediately, giving her no opportunity to scream or fight back. She probably died very soon after before he sexually abused her.

This could explain why no neighbours were alerted to sounds of a disturbance if they were in close proximity.

A few months later Caroline was attacked before entering her bedsit, which had a rear access down some steep steps to the rear of the building.

We believe that she screamed and this was heard by people living nearby.

As Caroline was also bludgeoned about the head and strangled, but with no evidence of being restrained or gagged, I assume she was unconscious, if not dead, a very short time later.

DF could have taken Caroline into the bedsit to carry out post mortem abuse. It is believed he took the keys.

However, DF took Caroline away from the scene of the original attack, most obviously in a vehicle, before eventually disposing of her in a remote location, in water, having removed personal effects and all but her tights.

I believe that this demonstrates a significant degree of reflection, progression and planning by DF following the murder of Wendy. Planning intended to frustrate, recovery, identification and destroy forensic evidence.

This is why I consider the murder of Wendy to be DF's first killing.

I know the available material reporting Jean Brook's murder is limited. However, a key element of DF's MO is the sexual abuse after death.

The details of this have rightly not been reported in the case of Wendy or Caroline, but that it was evident in both cases would make it something one would expect to find with the victims of other murders committed by DF. I suspect this is why police have previously said they are not connecting the death of Jean with Wendy and Caroline. JMO MOO

An informative educational submission below. Sources are shown.

Forensic Psychology - Michelle Reis's Portfolio

 

[jackal67]

The West Kent Cycling Touring Club that Fuller was a member of DO use Bedgebury Forest where Jean Brook was murdered in 1982.

Interesting It is a very popular area still.

 

[jackal67]

Now his recent neighbours are speaking out. Seems he was always washing his car, going out at 2am - 3am in the morning in his car, never made eye contact with folk and the window blinds stayed shut for the entire time he lived in Heathfield, which where he was arrested. I wonder if he still carried on with the prowling?

One of his neighbours apparently knew one of the girls he murdered.

Inside Bedsit Killer's life who kept blinds shut for years & snuck out at night

So what did his wife make of this odd behaviour then? His son too for that matter? They lived there with him too. !!

 

[Whitehall 1212]

We know only that Fuller was having problems with his first marriage around the late 1970/'s or early 1980's and would spend some time at his friends in Tonbridge. His Grandparents lived somewhere near Romney Marsh so approx 20 miles away from Dover where Jane Doe was allegedly heading after Pennell dropped her off. It would be difficult to establish her hitchhiking route from the A20 in Eltham, South London to Dover. Here is map attached showing distance from the sort of area Fuller's both sets of Grandparents who he often visited lived. Do we know the exact town they lived in? I am surprised if Fuller is being looked into for Bedgebury 1979 Jane Doe as to why he would have choosen Bedgebury rather than Romney Marsh.

Pennells said he dropped "Jane Doe" off a Spitalfields market, East London, which is near to the City of London boundary.

He was found "not guilty". Personally, I think that is fanciful. The evidence was compelling enough. Also Pennells lived in Ticehurst and the Henley's transport depot in Goudhurst were both significantly close to Bedgebury Forest.

The unsolved murder of beaten dead woman who still has no identity 40 years on

BBC Crimewatch report from 1984 on Jane Doe in Bedgebury Forest (from 23m 10s).

BBC Crimewatch report from 1999 on Jane Doe in Bedgebury Forest (from 22m 06s).

 

[jackal67]

We know only that Fuller was having problems with his first marriage around the late 1970/'s or early 1980's and would spend some time at his friends in Tonbridge. His Grandparents lived somewhere near Romney Marsh so approx 20 miles away from Dover where Jane Doe was allegedly heading after Pennell dropped her off. It would be difficult to establish her hitchhiking route from the A20 in Eltham, South London to Dover. Here is map attached showing distance from the sort of area Fuller's both sets of Grandparents who he often visited lived. Do we know the exact town they lived in? I am surprised if Fuller is being looked into for Bedgebury 1979 Jane Doe as to why he would have choosen Bedgebury rather than Romney Marsh.

Ah. So I was right in remembering the lorry driver but the wrong victim. Jane Doe not Jean Brook. I do not think Fuller was responsible for the Jane Doe murder but Jean Brook very possibly JMO

 

[Whitehall 1212]

So what did his wife make of this odd behaviour then? His son too for that matter? They lived there with him too. !!

It's fair to say we don't know how accurate these anecdotal reports of DF coming's and going's are.

It may have been observed a few times and has been exaggerated to "always".

In my experience people have a funny habit of over-egging the pudding when it supports what they now know.

 

[jackal67]

Just to clarify, that would have been a friend of Fuller's wife, called "Wendy"...not "Wendy Knell". I apologise if you already knew that, but I can see how one could confuse that statement as being about Wendy Knell.

Thanks yes that did confuse me

 

[jackal67]

3 kids with 1st wife - they hardly know him as they lived with Mum.
4th kid must have lived in their family home (with blinds always down) Poor child!

No it was only 2 kids with first wife a boy and a girl. It was stated 20 year old son with last wife. Not sure where 4 comes from?

 

[Dotta]

No it was only 2 kids with first wife a boy and a girl. It was stated 20 year old son with last wife. Not sure where 4 comes from?

Oops! Thank you

 

[jackal67]

wow…those are the murders @SaintGertrude has been recently discussing.

wow…those are the murders @SaintGertrude has been recently discussing.

Wow yes they are. I wondered about the 2nd murder but not the Jane Doe in 1979.

 

[jackal67]

I’m so pleased that the long forgotten about 1982 Jean Brook murder is possibly being linked.

The Police at the time didn’t believe the 1979 murder at Bedgebury was linked. For what’s it worth I believe the Police had their man for that crime.

Jean Brook’s murder appears far more brazen. To murder someone having a picnic at the side of an A road in the middle of a warm June day. Of course a cyclist could have gone along the secluded Park Lane which cuts through Bedgebury Forest from the B2079 onto the entrance of the A229 where Jean Brook was sitting. The perpetrator may already have known her movements as she had picnicked there before including earlier that week. Perhaps she had agreed to meet there?

Yes I agree with you about the 1979 murder. I often wondered if Jean Brook had arranged to meet someone there too. JMO

 

[SaintGertrude]

No it was only 2 kids with first wife a boy and a girl. It was stated 20 year old son with last wife. Not sure where 4 comes from?

His first wife had a later child by another father which is maybe why the confusion.

 

[SaintGertrude]

Wow yes they are. I wondered about the 2nd murder but not the Jane Doe in 1979.

I too am finding it hard to place Fuller as a suspect at the Jane Doe scene as he was still established in the Portsmouth area back in 1979 as far a I can tell and possibly making visits to his friend in Tonbridge and his Grandparents in Romney area. The police have said over the years that they did not think that Bedgebury Jane Doe murder and Bedgebury Jean Brook murder were related as being the same killer.
The unsolved murder of beaten dead woman who still has no identity 40 years on
Quote: The body of a second woman was also discovered in Bedgebury Forest in 1982. The killer of 46-year-old Jean Brook has also never been caught.
The mother-of-three was found beaten to death in the undergrowth just a mile from where the first body was discovered in 1979.
Police stressed they were not linking the deaths of the two women but were scrutinising other murders for any similarities to the 1979 killing.

 

[Dotta]

Another Victim???

Bedsit Killer probed over barmaid, 24, found dead miles from sicko's home

 

[SaintGertrude]

Another Victim???

Bedsit Killer probed over barmaid, 24, found dead miles from sicko's home

Cinderalla murder like Canada's Margaret McWilliam. The shoes prints were a Canadian make though. (Just thinking of Fuller's tours as an unofficial photographer with the cutting crew band who had a number of tours in Canada.

 

[SaintGertrude]

Here are some details about the cold case Toronto murdered victim who lived in a basement flat and went for a jog only to be murdered in some woods. No sexual offender was registered in the area. There was another murder in Warden Woods Park again in 1992. Probably not a link but just in case I will be scrutinising the CC tour dates. Whatever the conclusion I hope that Fuller is being looked into regarding cases outside of the UK if he toured abroad.
McWilliam, Margaret

 

[jackal67]

His first wife had a later child by another father which is maybe why the confusion.

Thanks

 

[SaintGertrude]

Another Victim???

Bedsit Killer probed over barmaid, 24, found dead miles from sicko's home

Thanks for sharing Dotta. I got a bit sidetracked . This is fascinating as there may be potentially other victims out there. Fuller is an absolute monster and quite capable.
Murder of Linda Cook - Wikipedia.

 

[Dotta]

Thanks for sharing Dotta. I got a bit sidetracked . This is fascinating as there may be potentially other victims out there. Fuller is an absolute monster and quite capable.
Murder of Linda Cook - Wikipedia.

My poor head is spinning with all these beautiful young women - all murdered by monster/s

 

[SaintGertrude]

There is also the unsolved case of Jessie Earl in Eastbourne and missing person Louise Kay.
Tobin has often been blamed for many local murders but should we be looking elsewhere now.
11 unsolved murders that shocked Sussex