UK - Arthur Labinjo Hughes, 6, killed, dad & friend arrested, June 2020
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14:03KEY EVENT
Everything we have heard so far today
The trial has now adjourned briefly for lunch.
To read a full recap of today's evidence so far, click here
We will be back with more updates very shortly.
'I've said it's all me' - What murder accused dad secretly told girlfriend
Everything we have heard so far today
The trial has now adjourned briefly for lunch.
To read a full recap of today's evidence so far, click here
We will be back with more updates very shortly.
'I've said it's all me' - What murder accused dad secretly told girlfriend
I thought I would copy over some of the earlier trial logs, to make them easier to locate. I know I like to refer back to them and it takes ages to scroll back that far on the live updates. So I won't copy all of them, that would take too long, but just certain witnesses.
Did he and Arthur live with his parents?
If so, the parenting of Arthur was done by grandparents, not the accused. He was busy dating, not taking care of his son. MOO
Witness: Hughes' mother. Direct evidence. Day 15 of the trial.
Arthur's grandmother called to the witness box
The jury has come into court and the trial resumes.
Joanne Hughes is called to give evidence. She confirms she is Thomas Hughes' mother and Arthur's grandmother.
She also tells the court she is a secondary school teacher.
Ms Hughes confirms that when Arthur was born to Thomas and his paternal mother Olivia Labonjo-Halcrow, they initially moved into Olivia's mother's home before they moved into an annexe at the bottom of her own garden.
Ms Hughes accepts that after a while the relationship became 'strained' and Olivia moved out to a flat in Harborne.
She confirms after they separated and Olivia was later convicted of killing her boyfriend, Thomas agreed to have custody of Arthur.
--
Arthur and dad only 'moved' to Tustin's because of lockdown
Ms Hughes states Thomas and Arthur returned to the annexe in February 2019 and were there for around a year.
Prosecutor Jonas Hankin asks if in March 2020 they 'moved in' to Tustin's home in Shirley.
Ms Hughes says: "That's not strictly true. They were spending the night. On the 23rd March it was announced at 8pm by the Prime Minister everyone had to stop where you were because of the lockdown.
"I phoned Tom and said what had been announced. He said 'Arthur is in bed asleep I guess we are where we are'. They had not moved in together. It was circumstance."
Mr Hankin asks her to describe Arthur.
Ms Hughes: "He started as a very nervous child. He didn't like strangers, didn't like loud noises. He evolved into a happy, well-rounded child."
---
Gran says Arthur was 'a joy'
Ms Hughes tells the court Arthur's favourite uncle was Blake because they would spend time and watch football together. She adds if he was to confide in any uncle it would be Blake.
Mr Hankin asks how Arthur came out of his shell.
Ms Hughes says: "We have a friend who is quite a large gentleman. When he first came into the house Arthur hid under the table because he was frightened.
"As he became more confident and stable and happy in his surroundings he would talk to this gentleman, offer him sweets, interact with him and was comfortable in his company."
She says Arthur was a 'happy child, a joy'.
Ms Hughes adds: "He was energetic. Always in the garden on a nice day. On the trampoline. Kicking a football about."
She says his favourite sport was football and then cricket.
Ms Hughes states that in the house Arthur would play with his wrestling figures, jigsaws and was happy to play with his toys alone or games with other people in the house.
---
Hughes and Tustin met at Butlins
Mr Hankin asks Ms Hughes if she felt Tom needed her help and support to look after Arthur.
She says: "Tom was never a confident person, he always doubted his abilities. The main thing he was concerned about was Arthur would fall behind in school. Tom was never academic. It was a big concern for him. I was there to offer support."
Ms Hughes says she and her husband took Arthur to Blackpool around Christmas time 2019 and he was 'a delight'.
She confirms Thomas took Arthur to Butlins in August that year and when he returned he said he had met someone - Emma Tustin.
Ms Hughes says as the two of them went on dates she would babysit Arthur.
---
Change in attitude
Ms Hughes tells the court she first met Tustin in October 2019 when she came to her home.
Mr Hankin asks: "Did you like Emma?"
Ms Hughes: "No."
She adds that she made it clear to her husband that was her feeling 'straight away'.
Ms Hughes confirms her 'concern' was how much time Tustin was spending with her own children in relation to how much time she was spending with Thomas.
Mr Hankin asks if she noticed changes in Arthur at the start of the relationship.
Ms Hughes: "Not at first. There were slight changes, he didn't seem as bright and sparkly. When Tom was with her he (Arthur) was quieter."
Mr Hankin asks if she noticed a change in Thomas's attitude to Arthur.
Ms Hughes: "Yes. Tom would be picking up a lot more on behaviour saying he had been rude and he was getting away with a lot."
She confirms that she never observed Arthur being rude or acting differently.
---
"He would always say 'Emma says'"
Ms Hughes tells the court around Christmas time 2019 Tustin spent a lot of time at the annexe with Tom, without her own children.
She states on New Year's Eve her husband Christopher had an argument with Thomas when Thomas asked to speak to Arthur about an allegation he had hit one of Tustin's children.
Ms Hughes says: "My husband said he was always going on at the kid, children have scuffles. That then led to an argument and a fallout between my husband and Thomas. Thomas thought my husband was poking his nose in."
She states that resulted in them not speaking to Tom for several days which was usual.
Mr Hankin asks if she noticed Tom changing towards Arthur.
Ms Hughes: "He was saying Arthur was rude and not doing what he was told. I had experienced none of this. He did usually say 'Emma says he's been rude', he would always say 'Emma says' but nonetheless he did say Arthur was being increasingly rude."
---
Pink chair taken as 'naughty chair'
Ms Hughes says from the start of 2019 to March that year Arthur would come up to her home from the annexe less and less.
She then recalls an occasion where Tustin took a pink children's chair to the annexe and says: "It was for Arthur to sit on when it had been deemed he had been rude or naughty."
Ms Hughes adds: "It was the 'naughty chair'. Tom said that's what Emma had used for her children. He thought that would be a good idea."
Ms Hughes confirms Tustin wanted Thomas and Arthur to move into her own home at Christmas time.
She says: "I thought that was a very bad idea. I told her that. I confronted her about the pink chair and that led onto the conversation about Tom and Arthur moving in with her. I said I didn't think it was a good idea.
"I deemed Tom to be vulnerable from his previous relationship and it would be unsettling for Arthur. I didn't think he needed any more re-adjustment or upheaval."
Ms Hughes states she told Tustin the pink chair was 'cruel' and that in response Tustin claimed it was Thomas's idea.
Asked about her relationship with Tustin she says it was 'polite'.
---
Tustin 'pushed Arthur and hit his head on stairs'
Mr Hankin moves on to the period between April 14 and 17 last year, when Thomas and Arthur returned to her home.
Ms Hughes: "Arthur came to the door and shouted 'I'm home'. He came into the room. I said 'what are you doing back?'. Tom said 'we've had a row'.
She confirms to the court that on April 15 a police officer came to her home looking for Thomas, who was at work, due to a report Tustin had threatened to kill herself.
Ms Hughes states that the following day, April 16, Arthur made a disclosure to her.
She says: "He said 'Emma grabbed me and pushed my head on the stairs'. He told me she called him a 'horrible, ugly brat' and pushed him and he hit his head on the stairs."
Ms Hughes adds that Arthur indicated he had hit his head at the bottom of his right ear.
She then tells the court she removed Arthur's top and saw he had bruises on both shoulders. Ms Hughes confirms she took photographs, which are then shown on the court screens.
One image is zoomed in and shows a dark blue bruise on Arthur's left shoulder.
Ms Hughes says she asked Thomas about the bruises when he returned home from work. She tells the court that he said Arthur's step-sibling had caused them with an umbrella.
---
Thomas Hughes 'called parents 'scum' in row over Arthur
Ms Hughes confirms she did not believe her son's version of events adding that things got 'heated because I was agitated'.
She tells the court she asked Thomas about the disclosure Arthur had made about Tustin allegedly hitting him.
Ms Hughes: "He said Emma wouldn't do that, she wouldn't hit Arthur."
She states Thomas went back to Tustin's home and she asked if Arthur could stay but Thomas said he would be 'fine'.
Ms Hughes confirms Thomas returned to her home later without Arthur.
She says: "I said 'where's Arthur?' He said 'where do you think?' I said 'you've never left him with her?'"
Ms Hughes tells the court that she told Thomas she intended to see Arthur's other grandmother - Olivia Labinjo-Halcrow's mother.
She says: "He said we were dead to him. I think he might have called us 'scum'. He was quite agitated."
---
Social services 'didn't want to see' bruise pictures
After Thomas left Ms Hughes tells the court she arranged to meet him at a 'neutral place'.
Ms Hughes: "I said if he wanted to stop there that's fine but can I take Arthur to stop with us, just for a couple of days. He said 'no he's my son, he will be fine, nobody's going to hurt him'. I said if that's your final answer I will phone social services."
Ms Hughes confirms she called social services that day - still April 16 - because she was 'concerned for my grandson and indeed my son because I deemed him to be vulnerable'.
She states she offered to send social services the photographs of Arthur's bruises but 'they didn't want to see them'.
She says she confirmed she was happy to have Arthur stay with her and that she was happy to be named - as opposed to being referred to anonymously - when social services conducted a visit.
---
List of 'time penalties'
Ms Hughes confirms she went into the annexe at the back of her home. She says: "I wanted just to see if there was anything that would explain certain things."
She tells the court she found 'a list'. The court screens show the piece of paper.
Mr Hankin reads the words written down on the document:
"Chair list"
"Rude to mommy bear - 1 hour each"
"Poor attitude - 20 minutes"
"Naughty - 40 minutes"
"Talking like a baby - 10 minutes"
"Weeing on toilet seat - 10 minutes"
"Any additional time accrued on chair such as crying, telling more than once, is extra 10 minutes on top of already set time."
Ms Hughes confirms that 'mommy bear' refers to Emma Tustin.
She adds: "I was aware, not of specific things. I was aware of the pink chair and time penalties."
---
Gran found 'unopened' birthday presents
Footage is played from CCTV footage outside of Tustin's home in Shirley.
Ms Hughes confirms it is from April-time last year when she went to the address to ask Thomas to give her the annexe keys back.
She states she also spoke about going to visit Arthur's other grandmother.
Ms Hughes: "He said Arthur was happy, Emma wouldn't hurt him. I was asking him to come home with Arthur."
She confirms Thomas threw the keys on the floor towards her and describes his demeanour as 'petulant'.
Ms Hughes: "There was nothing else to say. I felt quite defeated really."
Mr Hankin moves on to a new topic.
Ms Hughes confirms earlier this year, one of her other sons wanted to move into the annexe so she went in and bagged up Thomas's belongings.
She states she noticed around five 'unopened and unwrapped' birthday presents which made her 'upset'.
Mr Hankin concludes his initial questions.
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Arthur's grandmother called to the witness box
The jury has come into court and the trial resumes.
Joanne Hughes is called to give evidence. She confirms she is Thomas Hughes' mother and Arthur's grandmother.
She also tells the court she is a secondary school teacher.
Ms Hughes confirms that when Arthur was born to Thomas and his paternal mother Olivia Labonjo-Halcrow, they initially moved into Olivia's mother's home before they moved into an annexe at the bottom of her own garden.
Ms Hughes accepts that after a while the relationship became 'strained' and Olivia moved out to a flat in Harborne.
She confirms after they separated and Olivia was later convicted of killing her boyfriend, Thomas agreed to have custody of Arthur.
--
Arthur and dad only 'moved' to Tustin's because of lockdown
Ms Hughes states Thomas and Arthur returned to the annexe in February 2019 and were there for around a year.
Prosecutor Jonas Hankin asks if in March 2020 they 'moved in' to Tustin's home in Shirley.
Ms Hughes says: "That's not strictly true. They were spending the night. On the 23rd March it was announced at 8pm by the Prime Minister everyone had to stop where you were because of the lockdown.
"I phoned Tom and said what had been announced. He said 'Arthur is in bed asleep I guess we are where we are'. They had not moved in together. It was circumstance."
Mr Hankin asks her to describe Arthur.
Ms Hughes: "He started as a very nervous child. He didn't like strangers, didn't like loud noises. He evolved into a happy, well-rounded child."
---
Gran says Arthur was 'a joy'
Ms Hughes tells the court Arthur's favourite uncle was Blake because they would spend time and watch football together. She adds if he was to confide in any uncle it would be Blake.
Mr Hankin asks how Arthur came out of his shell.
Ms Hughes says: "We have a friend who is quite a large gentleman. When he first came into the house Arthur hid under the table because he was frightened.
"As he became more confident and stable and happy in his surroundings he would talk to this gentleman, offer him sweets, interact with him and was comfortable in his company."
She says Arthur was a 'happy child, a joy'.
Ms Hughes adds: "He was energetic. Always in the garden on a nice day. On the trampoline. Kicking a football about."
She says his favourite sport was football and then cricket.
Ms Hughes states that in the house Arthur would play with his wrestling figures, jigsaws and was happy to play with his toys alone or games with other people in the house.
---
Hughes and Tustin met at Butlins
Mr Hankin asks Ms Hughes if she felt Tom needed her help and support to look after Arthur.
She says: "Tom was never a confident person, he always doubted his abilities. The main thing he was concerned about was Arthur would fall behind in school. Tom was never academic. It was a big concern for him. I was there to offer support."
Ms Hughes says she and her husband took Arthur to Blackpool around Christmas time 2019 and he was 'a delight'.
She confirms Thomas took Arthur to Butlins in August that year and when he returned he said he had met someone - Emma Tustin.
Ms Hughes says as the two of them went on dates she would babysit Arthur.
---
Change in attitude
Ms Hughes tells the court she first met Tustin in October 2019 when she came to her home.
Mr Hankin asks: "Did you like Emma?"
Ms Hughes: "No."
She adds that she made it clear to her husband that was her feeling 'straight away'.
Ms Hughes confirms her 'concern' was how much time Tustin was spending with her own children in relation to how much time she was spending with Thomas.
Mr Hankin asks if she noticed changes in Arthur at the start of the relationship.
Ms Hughes: "Not at first. There were slight changes, he didn't seem as bright and sparkly. When Tom was with her he (Arthur) was quieter."
Mr Hankin asks if she noticed a change in Thomas's attitude to Arthur.
Ms Hughes: "Yes. Tom would be picking up a lot more on behaviour saying he had been rude and he was getting away with a lot."
She confirms that she never observed Arthur being rude or acting differently.
---
"He would always say 'Emma says'"
Ms Hughes tells the court around Christmas time 2019 Tustin spent a lot of time at the annexe with Tom, without her own children.
She states on New Year's Eve her husband Christopher had an argument with Thomas when Thomas asked to speak to Arthur about an allegation he had hit one of Tustin's children.
Ms Hughes says: "My husband said he was always going on at the kid, children have scuffles. That then led to an argument and a fallout between my husband and Thomas. Thomas thought my husband was poking his nose in."
She states that resulted in them not speaking to Tom for several days which was usual.
Mr Hankin asks if she noticed Tom changing towards Arthur.
Ms Hughes: "He was saying Arthur was rude and not doing what he was told. I had experienced none of this. He did usually say 'Emma says he's been rude', he would always say 'Emma says' but nonetheless he did say Arthur was being increasingly rude."
---
Pink chair taken as 'naughty chair'
Ms Hughes says from the start of 2019 to March that year Arthur would come up to her home from the annexe less and less.
She then recalls an occasion where Tustin took a pink children's chair to the annexe and says: "It was for Arthur to sit on when it had been deemed he had been rude or naughty."
Ms Hughes adds: "It was the 'naughty chair'. Tom said that's what Emma had used for her children. He thought that would be a good idea."
Ms Hughes confirms Tustin wanted Thomas and Arthur to move into her own home at Christmas time.
She says: "I thought that was a very bad idea. I told her that. I confronted her about the pink chair and that led onto the conversation about Tom and Arthur moving in with her. I said I didn't think it was a good idea.
"I deemed Tom to be vulnerable from his previous relationship and it would be unsettling for Arthur. I didn't think he needed any more re-adjustment or upheaval."
Ms Hughes states she told Tustin the pink chair was 'cruel' and that in response Tustin claimed it was Thomas's idea.
Asked about her relationship with Tustin she says it was 'polite'.
---
Tustin 'pushed Arthur and hit his head on stairs'
Mr Hankin moves on to the period between April 14 and 17 last year, when Thomas and Arthur returned to her home.
Ms Hughes: "Arthur came to the door and shouted 'I'm home'. He came into the room. I said 'what are you doing back?'. Tom said 'we've had a row'.
She confirms to the court that on April 15 a police officer came to her home looking for Thomas, who was at work, due to a report Tustin had threatened to kill herself.
Ms Hughes states that the following day, April 16, Arthur made a disclosure to her.
She says: "He said 'Emma grabbed me and pushed my head on the stairs'. He told me she called him a 'horrible, ugly brat' and pushed him and he hit his head on the stairs."
Ms Hughes adds that Arthur indicated he had hit his head at the bottom of his right ear.
She then tells the court she removed Arthur's top and saw he had bruises on both shoulders. Ms Hughes confirms she took photographs, which are then shown on the court screens.
One image is zoomed in and shows a dark blue bruise on Arthur's left shoulder.
Ms Hughes says she asked Thomas about the bruises when he returned home from work. She tells the court that he said Arthur's step-sibling had caused them with an umbrella.
---
Thomas Hughes 'called parents 'scum' in row over Arthur
Ms Hughes confirms she did not believe her son's version of events adding that things got 'heated because I was agitated'.
She tells the court she asked Thomas about the disclosure Arthur had made about Tustin allegedly hitting him.
Ms Hughes: "He said Emma wouldn't do that, she wouldn't hit Arthur."
She states Thomas went back to Tustin's home and she asked if Arthur could stay but Thomas said he would be 'fine'.
Ms Hughes confirms Thomas returned to her home later without Arthur.
She says: "I said 'where's Arthur?' He said 'where do you think?' I said 'you've never left him with her?'"
Ms Hughes tells the court that she told Thomas she intended to see Arthur's other grandmother - Olivia Labinjo-Halcrow's mother.
She says: "He said we were dead to him. I think he might have called us 'scum'. He was quite agitated."
---
Social services 'didn't want to see' bruise pictures
After Thomas left Ms Hughes tells the court she arranged to meet him at a 'neutral place'.
Ms Hughes: "I said if he wanted to stop there that's fine but can I take Arthur to stop with us, just for a couple of days. He said 'no he's my son, he will be fine, nobody's going to hurt him'. I said if that's your final answer I will phone social services."
Ms Hughes confirms she called social services that day - still April 16 - because she was 'concerned for my grandson and indeed my son because I deemed him to be vulnerable'.
She states she offered to send social services the photographs of Arthur's bruises but 'they didn't want to see them'.
She says she confirmed she was happy to have Arthur stay with her and that she was happy to be named - as opposed to being referred to anonymously - when social services conducted a visit.
---
List of 'time penalties'
Ms Hughes confirms she went into the annexe at the back of her home. She says: "I wanted just to see if there was anything that would explain certain things."
She tells the court she found 'a list'. The court screens show the piece of paper.
Mr Hankin reads the words written down on the document:
"Chair list"
"Rude to mommy bear - 1 hour each"
"Poor attitude - 20 minutes"
"Naughty - 40 minutes"
"Talking like a baby - 10 minutes"
"Weeing on toilet seat - 10 minutes"
"Any additional time accrued on chair such as crying, telling more than once, is extra 10 minutes on top of already set time."
Ms Hughes confirms that 'mommy bear' refers to Emma Tustin.
She adds: "I was aware, not of specific things. I was aware of the pink chair and time penalties."
---
Gran found 'unopened' birthday presents
Footage is played from CCTV footage outside of Tustin's home in Shirley.
Ms Hughes confirms it is from April-time last year when she went to the address to ask Thomas to give her the annexe keys back.
She states she also spoke about going to visit Arthur's other grandmother.
Ms Hughes: "He said Arthur was happy, Emma wouldn't hurt him. I was asking him to come home with Arthur."
She confirms Thomas threw the keys on the floor towards her and describes his demeanour as 'petulant'.
Ms Hughes: "There was nothing else to say. I felt quite defeated really."
Mr Hankin moves on to a new topic.
Ms Hughes confirms earlier this year, one of her other sons wanted to move into the annexe so she went in and bagged up Thomas's belongings.
She states she noticed around five 'unopened and unwrapped' birthday presents which made her 'upset'.
Mr Hankin concludes his initial questions.
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Witness Hughes' mother. Cross examination by Tustin's barrister. Day 15 of the trial.
Gran doesn't recall Arthur's 'murder fears'
Mary Prior, defending Tustin, begins cross-examination and asks Ms Hughes a series of questions.
Ms Hughes confirms she never reported Olivia Labinjo-Halcrow to social services, denies that she 'did not get on' with her, but confirms she understood Olivia to have drink and drug issues.
She denies being aware of any allegations of Olivia punching Arthur in the stomach, throwing wine in his face, feeding him cereal three times a day or getting him up in the middle of the night to walk around the park.
Ms Hughes confirms when Arthur first came to live with her in February 2019 he was anxious and would hide under the table.
Ms Hughes states that in September 2019 Arthur was told his mother had 'done something bad' and that she was in prison.
She tells the court Arthur became worried when Thomas left for work and asked if he was coming back.
Ms Hughes says she does not recall Arthur worrying his 'father was going to kill him'.
She confirms around December 2019 Olivia Labinjo-Halcrow made a court application to have contact with Arthur.
---
Dislike of Tustin 'grew and grew'
Ms Hughes denies she was aware of Arthur being 'obsessed with soft toys', saying 'nobody loved him' or having nightmares.
She confirms in 2019 there was a 'period of stability' for Arthur at her home.
Ms Hughes also confirms in August that year she became aware Thomas started seeing Tustin, who he met online.
She states it was 'not an issue' that she was a few years older and had children of her own.
Ms Hughes tells the court she thought it was 'a bit premature' when Thomas brought Tustin to her home in October and confirms she felt their relationship was 'developing very rapidly'.
Ms Prior: "From the outset you didn't like Emma Tustin did you?"
Ms Hughes: "No."
She confirms Tustin told her she had had a miscarriage, but adds she had 'no medical knowledge' as to whether there actually was a miscarriage.
Ms Prior then asks: "Your dislike of Emma grew and grew didn't it?"
Ms Hughes: "It did."
---
'Too early to move in'
Returning to the 'pink chair' incident, Ms Hughes accepts she was 'not pleasant' to Tustin about it and had said words to the effect of 'what's this about the f****** pink chair?'
Ms Prior asks about Tustin's hopes for Thomas and Arthur to move in and says: "You took her to one side. In your opinion they shouldn't live together. It was too soon. You said she was still welcome to come and visit on the weekends and stay. But in your view it was far too early."
Ms Hughes confirms that is accurate but denies telling Tustin not to tell Hughes she had spoken to her.
She says: "No, because I expressed those views to Tom as well."
Moving on to the end of March 2020 when the lockdown was announced.
Ms Hughes confirms that while Arthur was living at Tustin's home she had no contact with him until Thomas brought him back on April 14.
She denies Thomas telling her he had told Tustin to kill herself.
---
Court resumes after lunch
The trial resumes and Ms Prior continues cross-examination of Arthur's grandmother Joanne Hughes.
The barrister turns to April 16 last year and says: "You were outside in the garden with Arthur. Arthur held his head and indicated to you that that was where Emma Tustin had grabbed him. She had grabbed him to the face, called him names and pushed him and he bumped his head on the stairs."
Ms Hughes confirms that is correct.
She states she told social services about the alleged assault from Tustin, is not 100 per cent if she told the police, and did not tell the school when she called them four days later.
Ms Hughes confirms Arthur told her the bruises to his back were caused by a fight with his step-sibling - one of Tustin's own children.
She accepts she told social services she did not believe the bruises had been caused by another child.
---
'There was nowhere else to turn'
Ms Prior asks Ms Hughes why she did not tell the school about the alleged assault.
In reply she says: "Social services had not got back to me. They said they would only contact me if there was a concern. The police officer who phoned me on the evening told me he had been around to the property, he was quite happy that there was adequate provision for children there.
"He was unwilling to go around that evening as he had previously in the last few days spoken to Emma Tustin and she was confrontational. My son Daniel had been in contact with the police on the Saturday and was told they would get back to him that evening.
"The police sergeant didn't want to take anything further. There was nowhere else to turn. I didn't mention to the school because two services deemed it nothing to answer. I hoped the school would call Arthur in and physically see him.
"I did say I deemed him and my son vulnerable. They did inform me they were happy with the progress that had been made because Arthur had been at my address. I informed them from March 23 they were no longer residing with us. I was told somebody would get back to me."
She adds: "There was nowhere else to turn. I had been to the authorities I thought would help and it was my last port of call."
---
Harassment allegation
Ms Hughes confirms some time in June two of her sons went around to Tustin's home but there was no answer.
She tells the court she received a text from Thomas's phone.
"It was a text message accusing of harassing them, they had been to the police. If they went around again they would be arrested for harassment and breaching Covid."
Ms Hughes confirms she did not respond. Ms Prior concludes her questions.
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Gran doesn't recall Arthur's 'murder fears'
Mary Prior, defending Tustin, begins cross-examination and asks Ms Hughes a series of questions.
Ms Hughes confirms she never reported Olivia Labinjo-Halcrow to social services, denies that she 'did not get on' with her, but confirms she understood Olivia to have drink and drug issues.
She denies being aware of any allegations of Olivia punching Arthur in the stomach, throwing wine in his face, feeding him cereal three times a day or getting him up in the middle of the night to walk around the park.
Ms Hughes confirms when Arthur first came to live with her in February 2019 he was anxious and would hide under the table.
Ms Hughes states that in September 2019 Arthur was told his mother had 'done something bad' and that she was in prison.
She tells the court Arthur became worried when Thomas left for work and asked if he was coming back.
Ms Hughes says she does not recall Arthur worrying his 'father was going to kill him'.
She confirms around December 2019 Olivia Labinjo-Halcrow made a court application to have contact with Arthur.
---
Dislike of Tustin 'grew and grew'
Ms Hughes denies she was aware of Arthur being 'obsessed with soft toys', saying 'nobody loved him' or having nightmares.
She confirms in 2019 there was a 'period of stability' for Arthur at her home.
Ms Hughes also confirms in August that year she became aware Thomas started seeing Tustin, who he met online.
She states it was 'not an issue' that she was a few years older and had children of her own.
Ms Hughes tells the court she thought it was 'a bit premature' when Thomas brought Tustin to her home in October and confirms she felt their relationship was 'developing very rapidly'.
Ms Prior: "From the outset you didn't like Emma Tustin did you?"
Ms Hughes: "No."
She confirms Tustin told her she had had a miscarriage, but adds she had 'no medical knowledge' as to whether there actually was a miscarriage.
Ms Prior then asks: "Your dislike of Emma grew and grew didn't it?"
Ms Hughes: "It did."
---
'Too early to move in'
Returning to the 'pink chair' incident, Ms Hughes accepts she was 'not pleasant' to Tustin about it and had said words to the effect of 'what's this about the f****** pink chair?'
Ms Prior asks about Tustin's hopes for Thomas and Arthur to move in and says: "You took her to one side. In your opinion they shouldn't live together. It was too soon. You said she was still welcome to come and visit on the weekends and stay. But in your view it was far too early."
Ms Hughes confirms that is accurate but denies telling Tustin not to tell Hughes she had spoken to her.
She says: "No, because I expressed those views to Tom as well."
Moving on to the end of March 2020 when the lockdown was announced.
Ms Hughes confirms that while Arthur was living at Tustin's home she had no contact with him until Thomas brought him back on April 14.
She denies Thomas telling her he had told Tustin to kill herself.
---
Court resumes after lunch
The trial resumes and Ms Prior continues cross-examination of Arthur's grandmother Joanne Hughes.
The barrister turns to April 16 last year and says: "You were outside in the garden with Arthur. Arthur held his head and indicated to you that that was where Emma Tustin had grabbed him. She had grabbed him to the face, called him names and pushed him and he bumped his head on the stairs."
Ms Hughes confirms that is correct.
She states she told social services about the alleged assault from Tustin, is not 100 per cent if she told the police, and did not tell the school when she called them four days later.
Ms Hughes confirms Arthur told her the bruises to his back were caused by a fight with his step-sibling - one of Tustin's own children.
She accepts she told social services she did not believe the bruises had been caused by another child.
---
'There was nowhere else to turn'
Ms Prior asks Ms Hughes why she did not tell the school about the alleged assault.
In reply she says: "Social services had not got back to me. They said they would only contact me if there was a concern. The police officer who phoned me on the evening told me he had been around to the property, he was quite happy that there was adequate provision for children there.
"He was unwilling to go around that evening as he had previously in the last few days spoken to Emma Tustin and she was confrontational. My son Daniel had been in contact with the police on the Saturday and was told they would get back to him that evening.
"The police sergeant didn't want to take anything further. There was nowhere else to turn. I didn't mention to the school because two services deemed it nothing to answer. I hoped the school would call Arthur in and physically see him.
"I did say I deemed him and my son vulnerable. They did inform me they were happy with the progress that had been made because Arthur had been at my address. I informed them from March 23 they were no longer residing with us. I was told somebody would get back to me."
She adds: "There was nowhere else to turn. I had been to the authorities I thought would help and it was my last port of call."
---
Harassment allegation
Ms Hughes confirms some time in June two of her sons went around to Tustin's home but there was no answer.
She tells the court she received a text from Thomas's phone.
"It was a text message accusing of harassing them, they had been to the police. If they went around again they would be arrested for harassment and breaching Covid."
Ms Hughes confirms she did not respond. Ms Prior concludes her questions.
'I've said it's all me' - What murder accused dad secretly told girlfriend
Witness Hughes' mother. Cross examination by Hughes' barrister. Day 15 of the trial.
Thomas Hughes 'did not like confrontation'
Bernard Richmond, representing Hughes, begins his cross-examination and asks a series of questions.
Ms Hughes confirms Thomas 'hated school', did not develop as quickly as his peers and 'couldn't wait to get away'. She tells the court he later tried plumbing with a family friend but 'couldn't get on with it at all'.
Ms Hughes adds this dented her son's confidence. She confirms it was 'easy' for his confidence to be undermined and says: "Very much so. the right word or even the right look."
Mr Richmond asks about Thomas's relationship to Olivia Labinjo-Hughes.
Ms Hughes agrees Olivia was 'the love of his life' and tells the court he would likely go back to her now if she asked him to.
She confirms Olivia spent time in the Territorial Army but 'changed dramatically' when she returned from a six-week trip away.
Ms Hughes states Olivia drank very heavily and stayed out 'all night'.
She says Thomas became anxious and suspected she was being unfaithful.
Ms Hughes says Olivia could 'manipulate' Thomas and take advantage of the fact he did not like confrontation.
---
Thomas Hughes fell 'hook, line and sinker' for Tustin
Ms Hughes agrees that Thomas felt it was 'very important Arthur had a mother'.
She confirms that Thomas would refer to himself as 'thick'.
Ms Hughes agrees Thomas felt his parenting ability was 'undermined' by the fact he was living in her annexe and that she would occasionally cook for him.
She confirms when Olivia was convicted of killing her boyfriend there was an 'agreed explanation' to tell Arthur she was away in the Army.
Mr Richmond asks if she had any knowledge of Thomas ever 'raising a hand' to Arthur. Ms Hughes says 'no'.
Mr Richmond moves on to Emma Tusitn.
Ms Hughes confirms Tustin referred to Olivia as 'mad b***'.
She accepts Thomas 'fell hook, line and sinker' for Tustin.
Ms Hughes then confirms she did not approve of Arthur referring to Tustin as 'mommy bear' and says: "Thomas, Olivia and Arthur were known as 'mommy bear, daddy bear and baby bear'. It was between them, something they called themselves."
Mr Richmond: "She (Tustin) was becoming the new mommy bear, but the real mommy bear was still alive."
Ms Hughes: "Yes."
---
Thomas Hughes seemed 'browbeaten'
Ms Hughes confirms at one point Thomas and Tustin got engaged but she 'knew nothing about' it.
Mr Richond asks if any criticism of Tustin would have been 'contrary' to Thomas.
Ms Hughes: "It was clear. I learned my lesson from Olivia. When I tried to say anything about her. So yes."
She adds Thomas did not have 'confidence in his own opinions and would automatically think he was wrong'.
Turning to the events of April last year, Ms Hughes tells the court she did not detect any 'deceit' in Arthur when he said Tustin had hurt him.
She agrees Arthur was being 'distanced' from her and also Olivia's mother.
Mr Richmond asks how often messages from Thomas's phone sounded less like him.
Ms Hughes says: "It got more as time went on. It always started 'Emma thinks' or 'Emma says'."
Asked about her general observations of changes in Thomas over time she says: "Very anxious. He seemed to get less confident. He was not confident anyway. The joyfulness went out of him. He seemed browbeaten."
After very brief re-examination Ms Hughes concludes her evidence.
'I've said it's all me' - What murder accused dad secretly told girlfriend
Thomas Hughes 'did not like confrontation'
Bernard Richmond, representing Hughes, begins his cross-examination and asks a series of questions.
Ms Hughes confirms Thomas 'hated school', did not develop as quickly as his peers and 'couldn't wait to get away'. She tells the court he later tried plumbing with a family friend but 'couldn't get on with it at all'.
Ms Hughes adds this dented her son's confidence. She confirms it was 'easy' for his confidence to be undermined and says: "Very much so. the right word or even the right look."
Mr Richmond asks about Thomas's relationship to Olivia Labinjo-Hughes.
Ms Hughes agrees Olivia was 'the love of his life' and tells the court he would likely go back to her now if she asked him to.
She confirms Olivia spent time in the Territorial Army but 'changed dramatically' when she returned from a six-week trip away.
Ms Hughes states Olivia drank very heavily and stayed out 'all night'.
She says Thomas became anxious and suspected she was being unfaithful.
Ms Hughes says Olivia could 'manipulate' Thomas and take advantage of the fact he did not like confrontation.
---
Thomas Hughes fell 'hook, line and sinker' for Tustin
Ms Hughes agrees that Thomas felt it was 'very important Arthur had a mother'.
She confirms that Thomas would refer to himself as 'thick'.
Ms Hughes agrees Thomas felt his parenting ability was 'undermined' by the fact he was living in her annexe and that she would occasionally cook for him.
She confirms when Olivia was convicted of killing her boyfriend there was an 'agreed explanation' to tell Arthur she was away in the Army.
Mr Richmond asks if she had any knowledge of Thomas ever 'raising a hand' to Arthur. Ms Hughes says 'no'.
Mr Richmond moves on to Emma Tusitn.
Ms Hughes confirms Tustin referred to Olivia as 'mad b***'.
She accepts Thomas 'fell hook, line and sinker' for Tustin.
Ms Hughes then confirms she did not approve of Arthur referring to Tustin as 'mommy bear' and says: "Thomas, Olivia and Arthur were known as 'mommy bear, daddy bear and baby bear'. It was between them, something they called themselves."
Mr Richmond: "She (Tustin) was becoming the new mommy bear, but the real mommy bear was still alive."
Ms Hughes: "Yes."
---
Thomas Hughes seemed 'browbeaten'
Ms Hughes confirms at one point Thomas and Tustin got engaged but she 'knew nothing about' it.
Mr Richond asks if any criticism of Tustin would have been 'contrary' to Thomas.
Ms Hughes: "It was clear. I learned my lesson from Olivia. When I tried to say anything about her. So yes."
She adds Thomas did not have 'confidence in his own opinions and would automatically think he was wrong'.
Turning to the events of April last year, Ms Hughes tells the court she did not detect any 'deceit' in Arthur when he said Tustin had hurt him.
She agrees Arthur was being 'distanced' from her and also Olivia's mother.
Mr Richmond asks how often messages from Thomas's phone sounded less like him.
Ms Hughes says: "It got more as time went on. It always started 'Emma thinks' or 'Emma says'."
Asked about her general observations of changes in Thomas over time she says: "Very anxious. He seemed to get less confident. He was not confident anyway. The joyfulness went out of him. He seemed browbeaten."
After very brief re-examination Ms Hughes concludes her evidence.
'I've said it's all me' - What murder accused dad secretly told girlfriend
Witness Blake Hughes, brother of TH. Direct evidence. Day 15 of trial.
Thomas Hughes' brother enters witness box
Next in the witness box is Blake Hughes, brother to Thomas Hughes and uncle to Arthur Labinjo-Hughes.
He tells the court he had a 'very strong' bond with Arthur. Describing the boy's physical stature he says: "He came up to my hip size-wise. Not chunky, but stocky. He had a good weight to him. Lovely teeth. Green eyes."
Mr Hughes states Arthur was 'extremely' energetic and was 'always running around and playing'.
He states the relationship he had with him was 'more like brothers'.
---
Uncle said Arthur's behaviour changed
Mr Hughes states Arthur's behaviour appeared to change 'quite a lot' from September 2019 - after Thomas started dating Tustin.
He confirms he became more anxious about being told off and adds that Thomas became 'a lot stricter'.
The prosecutor asks if Arthur ever spoke about Tustin.
Mr Hughes: "When he first met her, she bought him a cricket set. He seemed happy. Then eventually he didn't like her."
---
Arthur told his uncle that Tustin had banged him against a wall
Mr Hughes tells the court that at some point Thomas and Emma got engaged.
He says: "None of us were told about it. We found out online because they changed their status."
Mr Hughes recalls at Christmas 2019 Arthur received a toy Batman car. He says: "It made a bit of noise but wasn't overly loud. He was playing with that, she (Tustin) was saying it was too loud and telling him to stop."
He describes her manner as 'sharp' and 'aggressive'.
Mr Hankin moves on to a night in April 2020 when Blake Hughes was putting Arthur to bed.
Mr Hughes says: "His head hurt. He said Emma grabbed his head and banged him against the wall. Called him a stupid, horrible brat and ugly."
He says Arthur said Tustin had told him his mother did not love him and had abandoned him.
---
Tustin complained about how Thomas treated Arthur
Mr Hughes says he told Thomas about Arthur's claims Tustin had hit him but Thomas 'didn't think she had done it and he thought it was her son'.
Mr Hughes adds: "He described what he thought happened. They were arguing, Emma and Tom, her son charged at Arthur with an umbrella and started hitting him with the umbrella and tried to gouge his eyes. He got involved.
"He tried to go over and step in. She (Tustin) pushed him back. He pushed her out the way and got in the middle and she started screaming 'you just hit my son'. She rang their father. Locked the door. Tom didn't have a key. She locked him in until he got there, until the father got there."
Mr Hankin concludes his questions.
Witness Blake Hughes, brother of TH. Cross examination by Tustin's barrister. Day 15 of trial.
Ms Prior starts cross-examination and asks if Arthur was 'thoroughly spoiled' whilst living at Joanne Hughes' home.
Mr Hughes: "He didn't get everything he wanted. I guess you could say he was spoiled."
He tells the court Tustin would complain to Thomas about how he treated Arthur and say 'that's not what a real parent would do'.
---
Tustin repeatedly told Thomas he 'didn't know how to parent'
Ms Prior moves on to the events of April 14 last year when Thomas and Arthur returned to Joanne Hughes' home.
Mr Hughes confirms he came down the stairs, Arthur ran towards him and he could see 'bruises to his face and cuts to his eyes and nose area'.
Ms Prior concludes her cross-examination. Mr Richmond takes over.
Mr Hughes confirms he is 'very angry' with Thomas, has not spoken to him since his arrest for the murder of Arthur and has not come to court to 'rescue' him.
He agrees Tustin repeatedly told Thomas he 'didn't know how to parent' and that his brother's 'confidence was rocked'.
Mr Hughes says: "Ten people could tell him he was doing good, it would only take one person to tell him he was doing bad."
He confirms Arthur told him numerous times Tustin was 'mean to him' but he did not elaborate on how.
There is no re-examination and Mr Hughes is released.
'I've said it's all me' - What murder accused dad secretly told girlfriend
Thomas Hughes' brother enters witness box
Next in the witness box is Blake Hughes, brother to Thomas Hughes and uncle to Arthur Labinjo-Hughes.
He tells the court he had a 'very strong' bond with Arthur. Describing the boy's physical stature he says: "He came up to my hip size-wise. Not chunky, but stocky. He had a good weight to him. Lovely teeth. Green eyes."
Mr Hughes states Arthur was 'extremely' energetic and was 'always running around and playing'.
He states the relationship he had with him was 'more like brothers'.
---
Uncle said Arthur's behaviour changed
Mr Hughes states Arthur's behaviour appeared to change 'quite a lot' from September 2019 - after Thomas started dating Tustin.
He confirms he became more anxious about being told off and adds that Thomas became 'a lot stricter'.
The prosecutor asks if Arthur ever spoke about Tustin.
Mr Hughes: "When he first met her, she bought him a cricket set. He seemed happy. Then eventually he didn't like her."
---
Arthur told his uncle that Tustin had banged him against a wall
Mr Hughes tells the court that at some point Thomas and Emma got engaged.
He says: "None of us were told about it. We found out online because they changed their status."
Mr Hughes recalls at Christmas 2019 Arthur received a toy Batman car. He says: "It made a bit of noise but wasn't overly loud. He was playing with that, she (Tustin) was saying it was too loud and telling him to stop."
He describes her manner as 'sharp' and 'aggressive'.
Mr Hankin moves on to a night in April 2020 when Blake Hughes was putting Arthur to bed.
Mr Hughes says: "His head hurt. He said Emma grabbed his head and banged him against the wall. Called him a stupid, horrible brat and ugly."
He says Arthur said Tustin had told him his mother did not love him and had abandoned him.
---
Tustin complained about how Thomas treated Arthur
Mr Hughes says he told Thomas about Arthur's claims Tustin had hit him but Thomas 'didn't think she had done it and he thought it was her son'.
Mr Hughes adds: "He described what he thought happened. They were arguing, Emma and Tom, her son charged at Arthur with an umbrella and started hitting him with the umbrella and tried to gouge his eyes. He got involved.
"He tried to go over and step in. She (Tustin) pushed him back. He pushed her out the way and got in the middle and she started screaming 'you just hit my son'. She rang their father. Locked the door. Tom didn't have a key. She locked him in until he got there, until the father got there."
Mr Hankin concludes his questions.
Witness Blake Hughes, brother of TH. Cross examination by Tustin's barrister. Day 15 of trial.
Ms Prior starts cross-examination and asks if Arthur was 'thoroughly spoiled' whilst living at Joanne Hughes' home.
Mr Hughes: "He didn't get everything he wanted. I guess you could say he was spoiled."
He tells the court Tustin would complain to Thomas about how he treated Arthur and say 'that's not what a real parent would do'.
---
Tustin repeatedly told Thomas he 'didn't know how to parent'
Ms Prior moves on to the events of April 14 last year when Thomas and Arthur returned to Joanne Hughes' home.
Mr Hughes confirms he came down the stairs, Arthur ran towards him and he could see 'bruises to his face and cuts to his eyes and nose area'.
Ms Prior concludes her cross-examination. Mr Richmond takes over.
Mr Hughes confirms he is 'very angry' with Thomas, has not spoken to him since his arrest for the murder of Arthur and has not come to court to 'rescue' him.
He agrees Tustin repeatedly told Thomas he 'didn't know how to parent' and that his brother's 'confidence was rocked'.
Mr Hughes says: "Ten people could tell him he was doing good, it would only take one person to tell him he was doing bad."
He confirms Arthur told him numerous times Tustin was 'mean to him' but he did not elaborate on how.
There is no re-examination and Mr Hughes is released.
'I've said it's all me' - What murder accused dad secretly told girlfriend
14:32TONY LARNER
'I did get on the same page as her'
Mr Richmond asks how Tustin was towards him by April 14.
Hughes: "Again it was Arthur's behaviour was because of me, I was too soft on him.
"If I wanted to make the relationship work I had to be on the same page otherwise things wouldn't work out. I did get on the same page as her.
"I wanted the relationship to work."
He adds it was not easy to have a private conversation with Arthur. Asked why he never took Arthur out for a walk Hughes says: "Every time I suggested going to park with the children, it was met with 'Arthur's behaviour doesn't deserve going to the park, he doesn't deserve to have fun'."
14:33TONY LARNER
Tustin threatened to split up 'at least once a week'
He tells the court it was 'very easy' for Tustin to get her own way with him.
Hughes: "She used many different techniques. She liked to be in control of everything, if I tried challenging anything it was her way, my way of parenting was wrong, her way was right.
"She had been there, done it before."
He states Tustin threatened to split up with him 'at least once a week'.
14:49TONY LARNER
'I tried to but I was locked in at first'
Hughes states at one stage he did decide to leave and says: "I had become unhappy. I did decide to leave.
"I tried to but I was locked in at first and not allowed to leave."
He elaborates saying there was a 'disagreement' between Tustin's son and Arthur.
Hughes tells the court he tried to make Arthur a sandwich and Tustin said: "Is my food not good enough for him anymore?"
He states Tustin 'encouraged her son to get his own back for all the times Arthur had allegedly been nasty to him'.
Hughes says Tustin's son punched and kicked Arthur and tried to gouge his eyes. He states Arthur did not fight back.
'I've said it's all me' - What murder accused dad secretly told girlfriend
'I did get on the same page as her'
Mr Richmond asks how Tustin was towards him by April 14.
Hughes: "Again it was Arthur's behaviour was because of me, I was too soft on him.
"If I wanted to make the relationship work I had to be on the same page otherwise things wouldn't work out. I did get on the same page as her.
"I wanted the relationship to work."
He adds it was not easy to have a private conversation with Arthur. Asked why he never took Arthur out for a walk Hughes says: "Every time I suggested going to park with the children, it was met with 'Arthur's behaviour doesn't deserve going to the park, he doesn't deserve to have fun'."
14:33TONY LARNER
Tustin threatened to split up 'at least once a week'
He tells the court it was 'very easy' for Tustin to get her own way with him.
Hughes: "She used many different techniques. She liked to be in control of everything, if I tried challenging anything it was her way, my way of parenting was wrong, her way was right.
"She had been there, done it before."
He states Tustin threatened to split up with him 'at least once a week'.
14:49TONY LARNER
'I tried to but I was locked in at first'
Hughes states at one stage he did decide to leave and says: "I had become unhappy. I did decide to leave.
"I tried to but I was locked in at first and not allowed to leave."
He elaborates saying there was a 'disagreement' between Tustin's son and Arthur.
Hughes tells the court he tried to make Arthur a sandwich and Tustin said: "Is my food not good enough for him anymore?"
He states Tustin 'encouraged her son to get his own back for all the times Arthur had allegedly been nasty to him'.
Hughes says Tustin's son punched and kicked Arthur and tried to gouge his eyes. He states Arthur did not fight back.
'I've said it's all me' - What murder accused dad secretly told girlfriend
I’m inclined to believe TH version of events more so than ET. Do I think his actions are excusable? Not a chance! Do I believe he was the driving force? Nope. I think this was ET. He is, no matter how coerced, responsible for his own actions regarding his abuse and cruelty to his son. And responsible for ensuring his sons safety! As for not wanting confrontation? I’m sure Arthur didn’t either, he unfortunately had no choice or say in the matter.
14:55TONY LARNER
'Emma told him I had hit her son'
Hughes recalls it was Tustin who tried to split the children up at first because he was trying to 'sort mine and Arthur's belongings out'.
He denies elbowing Tustin's son in the head. He confirms Tustin called her son's father Shane Hawkins. Hughes tells the court he spoke to Mr Hawkins outside. He denies confessing he elbowed his son.
Hughes states Mr Hawkins punched him in the ribs.
He says: "Emma told him I had hit his son. I made it clear I hadn't. Emma was in and out of the house saying he's got to do something about it.
"He said he needed to make it look like he had acted upon what happened.
"I went with it. I just wanted out of there at that point."
'I've said it's all me' - What murder accused dad secretly told girlfriend
'Emma told him I had hit her son'
Hughes recalls it was Tustin who tried to split the children up at first because he was trying to 'sort mine and Arthur's belongings out'.
He denies elbowing Tustin's son in the head. He confirms Tustin called her son's father Shane Hawkins. Hughes tells the court he spoke to Mr Hawkins outside. He denies confessing he elbowed his son.
Hughes states Mr Hawkins punched him in the ribs.
He says: "Emma told him I had hit his son. I made it clear I hadn't. Emma was in and out of the house saying he's got to do something about it.
"He said he needed to make it look like he had acted upon what happened.
"I went with it. I just wanted out of there at that point."
'I've said it's all me' - What murder accused dad secretly told girlfriend
15:03TONY LARNER
'I should have believed him the first time'
Hughes confirms he went back to his mother Joanne Hughes' home and she became concerned at the bruises on Arthur's back.
He accepts his mother suspected Tustin had caused them but admits he 'rubbished it'.
Mr Richmond asks 'what on earth' made Hughes return to Tustin's home on April 16, last year.
Hughes: "I asked Arthur about the bruises. An allegation was made by Arthur that Emma had grabbed his cheeks, pushed him into a wall and called him an 'ugly, horrible brat'.
"He had told his uncle Blake at night time.
"I asked Arthur about it the following morning. He told me what happened. I said 'okay I'll ask you again later'. He changed his story a couple of times. I asked him again and he said nothing happened. At that point I had accused Emma of hitting Arthur.
"I felt like I had to apologise and Arthur needed to apologise as well."
Hughes adds: "I should have believed him the first time."
'I've said it's all me' - What murder accused dad secretly told girlfriend
'I should have believed him the first time'
Hughes confirms he went back to his mother Joanne Hughes' home and she became concerned at the bruises on Arthur's back.
He accepts his mother suspected Tustin had caused them but admits he 'rubbished it'.
Mr Richmond asks 'what on earth' made Hughes return to Tustin's home on April 16, last year.
Hughes: "I asked Arthur about the bruises. An allegation was made by Arthur that Emma had grabbed his cheeks, pushed him into a wall and called him an 'ugly, horrible brat'.
"He had told his uncle Blake at night time.
"I asked Arthur about it the following morning. He told me what happened. I said 'okay I'll ask you again later'. He changed his story a couple of times. I asked him again and he said nothing happened. At that point I had accused Emma of hitting Arthur.
"I felt like I had to apologise and Arthur needed to apologise as well."
Hughes adds: "I should have believed him the first time."
'I've said it's all me' - What murder accused dad secretly told girlfriend
Arthur and TH lived in an annexe at his parents house. I think TH received support from his family, but I doubt they did all the parenting. MOO
15:12TONY LARNER
Hughes told Tustin to 'kill herself multiple times'
Hughes accepts he had an argument over the phone with Tustin and told her to kill herself 'multiple times'.
He says: "I wasn't aware of her mental state at the time. It was a spur of the moment comment. It wasn't a nice comment to say. Anger got the better of me."
Hughes says he became concerned for Tustin's welfare after she made a comment that she had seen a news article about someone jumping off a car park.
He states Tustin had never told him she had jumped off a car park and tried to take her own life in 2013.
'I've said it's all me' - What murder accused dad secretly told girlfriend
Hughes told Tustin to 'kill herself multiple times'
Hughes accepts he had an argument over the phone with Tustin and told her to kill herself 'multiple times'.
He says: "I wasn't aware of her mental state at the time. It was a spur of the moment comment. It wasn't a nice comment to say. Anger got the better of me."
Hughes says he became concerned for Tustin's welfare after she made a comment that she had seen a news article about someone jumping off a car park.
He states Tustin had never told him she had jumped off a car park and tried to take her own life in 2013.
'I've said it's all me' - What murder accused dad secretly told girlfriend
15:17TONY LARNER
Hughes quizzed about message on Tustin's phone
Mr Richmond asks about a message on Tustin's phone where she accused the Hughes family of 'harassing' them.
Hughes denies he dictated it and tells the court Tustin wrote it.
He says: "I believe my brothers were concerned for me and Arthur and had been outside the house numerous times and Emma basically said it was out of order. They shouldn't be doing it.
"As a result the message came about."
'I've said it's all me' - What murder accused dad secretly told girlfriend
Hughes quizzed about message on Tustin's phone
Mr Richmond asks about a message on Tustin's phone where she accused the Hughes family of 'harassing' them.
Hughes denies he dictated it and tells the court Tustin wrote it.
He says: "I believe my brothers were concerned for me and Arthur and had been outside the house numerous times and Emma basically said it was out of order. They shouldn't be doing it.
"As a result the message came about."
'I've said it's all me' - What murder accused dad secretly told girlfriend
15:19TONY LARNER
Hughes did not speak to parents until June 22
Hughes confirms he tried to give his grandmother a birthday gift in mid-June but apart from that did not speak to his parents again until June 22, by which time he was in custody HMP Birmingham.
He states he had said 'nasty' things to them and was 'scared' of their reaction.
Mr Richmond: "How constant was Emma's negative feelings towards your parents?"
Hughes: "Every day. Because she would reference when they phoned social services and say the problems we were having with Arthur was because my parents let him get away with everything.
"As a result the involvement with social services was their fault."
'I've said it's all me' - What murder accused dad secretly told girlfriend
Hughes did not speak to parents until June 22
Hughes confirms he tried to give his grandmother a birthday gift in mid-June but apart from that did not speak to his parents again until June 22, by which time he was in custody HMP Birmingham.
He states he had said 'nasty' things to them and was 'scared' of their reaction.
Mr Richmond: "How constant was Emma's negative feelings towards your parents?"
Hughes: "Every day. Because she would reference when they phoned social services and say the problems we were having with Arthur was because my parents let him get away with everything.
"As a result the involvement with social services was their fault."
'I've said it's all me' - What murder accused dad secretly told girlfriend
15:25TONY LARNER
Social services 'told a different story by Emma'
Hughes states Tustin was the 'main speaker' when social services visited them at her home on April 17.
Mr Richmond asks if the social workers were aware of the incident between Tustin's son and Arthur.
Hughes: "They were told a different story by Emma. I wasn't comfortable with it but she said if I didn't go along with it they would take the kids off us.
"She said the boys were fighting with boxing gloves, it got boisterous and Arthur had fallen into the stairs."
15:26TONY LARNER
'She knew she had control'
He states after the visit Tustin was 'frosty' with him. Asked how Tustin was towards Arthur he adds: "She blamed Arthur entirely. Arthur could have got her into a lot of trouble. Arthur would be taken away from us and never see anyone he loved again.
"I was taken aback by it. I did confront her, she became confrontational. She said it was the truth."
Hughes agrees that going back to his parents' home was not an option at that point. He says it was 'very difficult' to get out of Tustin's home.
Hughes: "I felt when I went back on April 16 she knew she had full control and it made an impossible task for me."
He adds: "She knew she had control and I would go along with what she said. Knew I had nowhere else to go. Was struggling financially and was dependent on her.
"She knew it was a struggle for me. She constantly blamed Arthur for social services being involved. She told him, not daily, but once a week. Told him that she will force him to see his mom, his mom can deal with it."
'I've said it's all me' - What murder accused dad secretly told girlfriend
Social services 'told a different story by Emma'
Hughes states Tustin was the 'main speaker' when social services visited them at her home on April 17.
Mr Richmond asks if the social workers were aware of the incident between Tustin's son and Arthur.
Hughes: "They were told a different story by Emma. I wasn't comfortable with it but she said if I didn't go along with it they would take the kids off us.
"She said the boys were fighting with boxing gloves, it got boisterous and Arthur had fallen into the stairs."
15:26TONY LARNER
'She knew she had control'
He states after the visit Tustin was 'frosty' with him. Asked how Tustin was towards Arthur he adds: "She blamed Arthur entirely. Arthur could have got her into a lot of trouble. Arthur would be taken away from us and never see anyone he loved again.
"I was taken aback by it. I did confront her, she became confrontational. She said it was the truth."
Hughes agrees that going back to his parents' home was not an option at that point. He says it was 'very difficult' to get out of Tustin's home.
Hughes: "I felt when I went back on April 16 she knew she had full control and it made an impossible task for me."
He adds: "She knew she had control and I would go along with what she said. Knew I had nowhere else to go. Was struggling financially and was dependent on her.
"She knew it was a struggle for me. She constantly blamed Arthur for social services being involved. She told him, not daily, but once a week. Told him that she will force him to see his mom, his mom can deal with it."
'I've said it's all me' - What murder accused dad secretly told girlfriend
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