UK - Arthur Labinjo Hughes, 6, killed, dad & friend arrested, June 2020

[Dotta]

No problem!

If the eldest children lived with their fathers and ET still had contact, why would she not inform TH about them? That’s what makes me suspect she had no contact with these children whatsoever because surely, at some point, them children would come to visit and then how would you explain that? If she had photos of these children in her home, at some point TH would ask who they were surely? That’s what makes me think there were no photos of them in that house.

I’ve already stated my eldest no longer lives at home, his photos are still up on my walls and on my shelves. I didn’t think “oh you know what, he no longer lives here, let’s remove him.” I think it’s the aspect of ET failing to mention her other children that gives me really bad vibes. I can’t quite convey it in words…

This is what makes me think there is more going on here than what we know so far. I really do think a lot is going to come out after trial.

ET wanted marriage.

Men usually are hesitant to "tie the knot" with single mums with 1 or 2 kids - let alone 4!!!

After the wedding ET might inform him about the "Surprise".

 

[Tinksx]

ET wanted marriage.
Men usually are hesitant to "tie the knot" with single mums with 1 or 2 kids - let alone 4!!!
After the wedding ET might inform him about the "Surprise".

8 months without having contact with your children to secure a marriage? Doesn’t seem likely to me. Anything is possible I guess but I’m not convinced this was the reason.

Also as an aside, I know many men that have gone into relationships with women with children and are now married, with blended families containing 5 or 6 children between them. It isn’t an issue for some men, it is an issue for others. To each their own.

 

[CrimeAway]

So was social services/child welfare aware of ET before this case?
It sounds like they may have been.

Presumably, they would have been aware of Arthur, due to his bio mom's court case, and imprisonment?

Contraception is available without charge in the UK, I believe.

 

[Tinksx]

So was social services/child welfare aware of ET before this case?
It sounds like they may have been.

Presumably, they would have been aware of Arthur, due to his bio mom's court case, and imprisonment?

Contraception is available without charge in the UK, I believe.

There was definitely SS involvement with ET prior to Arthur and TH coming into her life.

I haven’t heard SS were involved with Arthur prior to moving into ET property, although CAFCASS were involved at some point with Arthur surrounding contact with his bio mum.

Contraception is free via sexual health clinics yes.

 

[Dotta]

8 months without having contact with your children to secure a marriage? Doesn’t seem likely to me. Anything is possible I guess but I’m not convinced this was the reason.

Also as an aside, I know many men that have gone into relationships with women with children and are now married, with blended families containing 5 or 6 children between them. It isn’t an issue for some men, it is an issue for others. To each their own.

But we are not talking about normal, loving, empathetic people, right?

 

[Tinksx]

But we are not talking about normal, loving, empathetic people, right?

But we do have to take into consideration the fathers of the eldest two children in this equation. I cannot see them agreeing to let ET escape her parental duties and keep the children hidden, purely to secure a marriage.

 

[Dotta]

But we do have to take into consideration the fathers of the eldest two children in this equation. I cannot see them agreeing to let ET escape her parental duties and keep the children hidden, purely to secure a marriage.

Of course, that is why she was pressuring TH to quick marriage.
Remember him googling "Gretna Green"?

 

[Tinksx]

Of course, that is why she was pressuring TH to quick marriage.
Remember him googling "Gretna Green"?

I think the engagement was simply her way of securing TH. Same as the constantly falling pregnant. 3 pregnancies in less than a year seems excessive, especially when both stated none of them were planned. I don’t think it is anything to do with her eldest children. I don’t think they were kept hidden by ET with their fathers consent so that ET could get married. JMO

 

[Dotta]

I think the engagement was simply her way of securing TH. Same as the constantly falling pregnant. 3 pregnancies in less than a year seems excessive, especially when both stated none of them were planned. I don’t think it is anything to do with her eldest children. I don’t think they were kept hidden by ET with their fathers consent so that ET could get married. JMO

Everybody is entitled to the opinion.
It is a forum after all

 

[Tinksx]

Everybody is entitled to the opinion.
It is a forum after all

It makes it much more interesting I think. Especially when everyone sees things from a different perspective or angle, I know it helps me pick up on things I might have missed.

 

[Dotta]

It makes it much more interesting I think. Especially when everyone sees things from a different perspective or angle, I know it helps me pick up on things I might have missed.

 

[ScottishSam]

My house is full of pics of my children, everyone who knows me knows I have 2.
ET had no pictures of her eldest 2, didn't speak about them to TH. He visited her mum and step dad's house - did they not have pictures of these elder children either? Did they ever discuss them when TH was there? Did the 2 younger children know about their half big brothers?
It seems to me they were scrubbed from ETs life. What happened to all their baby pics? All the little things parents keep - first socks, first shoes, the outfit they wore coming home from hospital?
Maybe there's a link between the ages at removal of her eldest 2 sons, and Arthur's age?

 

[ScottishSam]

ET wanted marriage.

Men usually are hesitant to "tie the knot" with single mums with 1 or 2 kids - let alone 4!!!

After the wedding ET might inform him about the "Surprise".

TH was a single dad as well. So I don't see this being the issue. And as far as he knew there were only 2.

 

[Dotta]

My house is full of pics of my children, everyone who knows me knows I have 2.
ET had no pictures of her eldest 2, didn't speak about them to TH. He visited her mum and step dad's house - did they not have pictures of these elder children either? Did they ever discuss them when TH was there? Did the 2 younger children know about their half big brothers?
It seems to me they were scrubbed from ETs life. What happened to all their baby pics? All the little things parents keep - first socks, first shoes, the outfit they wore coming home from hospital?
Maybe there's a link between the ages at removal of her eldest 2 sons, and Arthur's age?

Im beginning to think this part of her life (suicide attempt, losing the kids) was a kind of trigger for her, so she decided to cut off all memories and start anew.

 

[Dotta]

Also, her changing the surname might be connected with disappearance of 2 eldest sons from her life.

 

[Tinksx]

Im beginning to think this part of her life (suicide attempt, losing the kids) was a kind of trigger for her, so she decided to cut off all memories and start anew.

You very well might be right! This could be a plausible explanation for no contact with the eldest children.

I actually feel quite sorry for these eldest children if I’m honest, her eldest would be 15 now and well aware of what’s happening with his mother.

 

[ScottishSam]

Im beginning to think this part of her life (suicide attempt, losing the kids) was a kind of trigger for her, so she decided to cut off all memories and start anew.

So we know she was sexually abused. I think what I'm trying to work out is did the ages of the male children in her life trigger some kind of response?
IME, suicide attempts do not lead to the permanent removal of children with no contact, unless there are severe risks to the children in the home.
Maybe @Dotta, you're right, and she wanted to draw a line under the experience, and close that chapter of her life. Part of me thinks there's more to this than has come out yet.

 

[Dotta]

So we know she was sexually abused. I think what I'm trying to work out is did the ages of the male children in her life trigger some kind of response? I remember last year, when my son was 6 - he was fascinated and very proud of a certain part of his anatomy.
IME, suicide attempts do not lead to the permanent removal of children with no contact, unless there are severe risks to the children in the home.
Maybe @Dotta, you're right, and she wanted to draw a line under the experience, and close that chapter of her life. Part of me thinks there's more to this than has come out yet.

And a new surname as the beginning of a new life.

 

[Tinksx]

So we know she was sexually abused. I think what I'm trying to work out is did the ages of the male children in her life trigger some kind of response? I remember last year, when my son was 6 - he was fascinated and very proud of a certain part of his anatomy.
IME, suicide attempts do not lead to the permanent removal of children with no contact, unless there are severe risks to the children in the home.
Maybe @Dotta, you're right, and she wanted to draw a line under the experience, and close that chapter of her life.

I believe the children were 6 and 4 at the time they went to live with their fathers. I’ll have to check back on the long BM thread to be sure but that is near impossible on my phone. Suicide attempts do not usually warrant no contact, there would be supervised contact to assess the situation, relationship between children and parent, protective factors, the childrens wishes etc… this would then gradually increase over a period of time. ET has mentioned being in a seriously abusive relationship, she also sustained a broken bone (cannot remember which) and a black eye on her birthday.

Children involved in a DV relationship, will alert SS and they will become involved. If the victim chooses to stay with the perpetrator, that will cause a massive safeguarding risk and the children will be placed under child protection, that’s the highest before removal. If an incident of DV was to happen again whilst the children were on the child protection plan, SS would seek an emergency order and remove the children.

I’m wondering if this was what happened here? This is pure speculation on my part. ET gets into a relationship, already having split from the elder two fathers. This relationship becomes abusive. SS becomes involved, ET stays in relationship therefore becoming a safeguarding risk, there is another incident of abuse and SS remove children. Both fathers get custody, ET becomes suicidal and the suicide attempt takes place.

If either of these two fathers had committed DV offences, especially in the presence of the children, they would not be allowed full custody of the children. That makes me think this abusive relationship ET was in, wasn’t with either of these two men.

Again, pure speculation but that’s where my trail of thought keeps going.

 

[Carroll520]

So we know she was sexually abused. I think what I'm trying to work out is did the ages of the male children in her life trigger some kind of response?
IME, suicide attempts do not lead to the permanent removal of children with no contact, unless there are severe risks to the children in the home.
Maybe @Dotta, you're right, and she wanted to draw a line under the experience, and close that chapter of her life. Part of me thinks there's more to this than has come out yet.

Or was the fact she was so badly hurt after the fall deemed a reason for the kids to go to their Dads and then she wasnt bothered getting access to them after that?