UK UK - Claudia Lawrence, 35, York University, 18 March 2009 - Chef - #2

[MajorLang]

She went missing in 2009

@Pinkizzy Many thanks-Classic error of mine. I wonder if you can help. I read a blog from the german barmaid on a website called "Meium" who worked at Nags Head up to December 2008 and in the blog she mentioned a posting on Reddit from a user Union_jane who mentioned that there was a discussion around CL appearing in a DVD with 4 others who wore masks to conceal their identity. Sounds very relevant and if not a coincidence is a concern. Do you know of this?

 

[Pinkizzy]

@MajorLang Yes, Ive read the DVD reference on Reddit

 

[MajorLang]

@MajorLang Yes, Ive read the DVD reference on Reddit

Is it relevant or just gossip?

 

[Yozzer]

@Yozzer. Thank you. Are you saying that of the two videos shown of the man at the side of CL house disappearing out of sight were of two different people? The one in the morning being RC the Landlord performing a legitimate function and should be ignored and then the one in the evening possibly being who others believe to be AC, the one we should continue to take seriously as no one coming forward to admit to?
Please advise so that I can update my post..

I don't think this was clarified as NYP haven't acknowledged the RC link since the 2009 search of his properties: Aug 2009:
Although police have refused to confirm his identity, they believe the man who owned the properties is the same one who was captured on CCTV walking to the rear of Miss Lawrence's house on the morning she failed to turn up at work.
Owner of searched house was seen near Claudia's home on day she disappeared
This is Dai Malyn's view on alley man in March 2019:
"I cannot fully accept anything as to the identity of a suggested person, i.e. the man near the alleyway behind Claudia's home, unless we have conclusive evidence to back the information up," said Det Supt Malyn.
"The call we really want is the one that helps piece together the parts of the jigsaw we already know regarding her last movements and people she associated with and places frequented."
Man near alley 'still key' in Claudia case

And this similar quote from April 2016:
Det Supt Malyn says a man seen on CCTV walking near Claudia’s house at the
time of her disappearance “remains the most important person to trace” — but
this footage was not made public until the sixth anniversary of Claudia’s
disappearance.
Det Supt Malyn added: “We can’t rule out that a complete stranger to Claudia
was involved and managed to avoid CCTV cameras, being disturbed by witnesses
and is unknown to the investigation team, her friends and family.
“However, I strongly favour the theory that the person — or persons —
responsible for Claudia’s disappearance were close to her."

Did cops' obsession with missing Claudia’s 'complex' sex life let her killer slip through the net?

I assume person/persons are giving alley man an alibi for these 2 sightings. I also wondered if the time of 2nd sighting during the evening of 18th March at 7 pm may have discounted RC for some reason or as previously stated, someone came forward with a name and his physical profile matched the cctv image. If the police did hold back this cctv, perhaps it was due to the reaction of RC's grieving relatives to the house searches and speculation shortly after his death.

 

[Pinkizzy]

@MajorLang I reckon that it's gossip

 

[Yozzer]

Might she have charged it up in the kitchen?

Also I have just read that the bathroom was next to the kitchen i.e. downstairs. I agree, she could have used it the night before.

 

[Yozzer]

This is an interesting and wide ranging article on the BBC website.
What happened to Claudia? - BBC News

A few points of interest:
In Section 3, note the cctv time. I vaguely recall something about the timing of the clock on the cctv being wrong. It is listed here as 5.07 not 6am. This time is repeated in the powerpoint caption. It places the man in the alley at a time when CL would normally be getting ready for work. I don't know how this would not affect the time on the cctv from the 18th though?

At 05:07 he can be seen walking into Heworth Place towards an alley behind her house. Just over a minute later, he reappears and rejoins the main road.
Mr Galloway told the York Press at the time that the man’s actions were “strange” and urged him to come forward so he could be excluded from the inquiry. He has never been identified.

In Section 4:
Meanwhile, at the York Press, armchair detectives were calling the newsroom with their theories and reporters heard repeated rumours concerning the university’s Ron Cooke Hub, which was being built in 2009. They were further fuelled by claims Claudia had been involved with men in the building trade.
“With that building project there was a lot of concrete being put down and there was a suggestion she may have been dumped under there,” says Mike Laycock.

In Section 5: Former MET police DCI Clive Driscoll's theories:
“It could have all gone horribly sour the moment Claudia finished that phone call with her mum. From the time she finished that conversation… is, in my mind, where the focus should lie.”

 

[HongKongPhooey]

Also I have just read that the bathroom was next to the kitchen i.e. downstairs. I agree, she could have used it the night before.

Ah that makes more sense

 

[Yozzer]

5.25 light Ford focus breaking...do we know when it was next seen on cctv? Ie did it stop then park up in order to stage her home to look like she had just gone to work?...using her keys to get in? I believe she could well have been out that eve. I wish NYP would indeed update their timeline on their website...I wish crimewatch was still on too!!!! What a tangled web!

One of the arrested men SR runs a locksmith business.

 

[Yozzer]

@Yozzer, Is that the house with the Blue Ford focus in the Google 2009 Image with the red smaller car parked on the same drive along with a silver car and a metallic blue car on the driveway? In the October 2009 image, the red and blue focus are still there but the other two (Silver and Metallic Blue) are not. They may have been visitors in 2009.

Correct.

 

[Cherwell]

This toothbrush. Was it definitely the one she was currently using?
Because there is always a toothbrush near my kitchen sink, as they are very useful for cleaning places like the base of the taps.
If that one was used for cleaning jobs, then she possibly took her current toothbrush with her.

 

[Yozzer]

This toothbrush. Was it definitely the one she was currently using?
Because there is always a toothbrush near my kitchen sink, as they are very useful for cleaning places like the base of the taps.
If that one was used for cleaning jobs, then she possibly took her current toothbrush with her.

I think I read that it was an electric toothbrush - hence the discussion around charging it in the kitchen due to lack of power in the bathroom. Yes I use a toothbrush for cleaning in awkward spots too!

 

[Yozzer]

Theory: What if the visit to the alley was to pick up or replace a key, carefully placed on a ledge or underneath a bin in the alley?
Does anyone know what day was bin collection day? Because if bins were collected on Thursday or even Friday morning, did NYPD visit the refuse collection centre to check rubbish?

 

[MajorLang]

This toothbrush. Was it definitely the one she was currently using?
Because there is always a toothbrush near my kitchen sink, as they are very useful for cleaning places like the base of the taps.
If that one was used for cleaning jobs, then she possibly took her current toothbrush with her.

DNA of hers would be on it

 

[MajorLang]

Theory: What if the visit to the alley was to pick up or replace a key, carefully placed on a ledge or underneath a bin in the alley?
Does anyone know what day was bin collection day? Because if bins were collected on Thursday or even Friday morning, did NYPD visit the refuse collection centre to check rubbish?

Yes, possible but you would also expect to see on CCTV someone leaving the keys here and Police linking it up.

One of the arrested men SR runs a locksmith business.

Very interesting

 

[Yozzer]

Yes, possible but you would also expect to see on CCTV someone leaving the keys here and Police linking it up.

Very interesting

We have seen the alley man on cctv - this is who I was thinking of. He may have been an accomplice. Whatever he did was very quick and simple.

 

[MajorLang]

U

We have seen the alley man on cctv - this is who I was thinking of. He may have been an accomplice. Whatever he did was very quick and simple.

Yes and he came from and returned in the direction of CL house. Suddenly stopping because the other guy was a regular at the Nags and he didn't want to be seen by him???

 

[MajorLang]

I think I read that it was an electric toothbrush - hence the discussion around charging it in the kitchen due to lack of power in the bathroom. Yes I use a toothbrush for cleaning in awkward spots too!

What if the toothbrush had been taken by CL if she went out that night but was returned by someone else so as to make it look like she had left for work that morning.
Leaving it in the kitchen would have been easier and done if it was a "rush job" this would have been the only item that would be seen as unusual if missing and pointed towards her making a pre meditated stay out night?

 

[Yozzer]

What if the toothbrush had been taken by CL if she went out that night but was returned by someone else so as to make it look like she had left for work that morning.
Leaving it in the kitchen would have been easier and done if it was a "rush job" this would have been the only item that would be seen as unusual if missing and pointed towards her making a pre meditated stay out night?

To be honest, I'm not sure the toothbrush is relevant. I know it was mentioned by her father but would she take an electric toothbrush for an overnight stay? Most ppl have an ordinary brush for taking on holiday etc. Just my thoughts. Likewise I think it's difficult to read too much into the dishes situation (in terms of when she left the house) unless she was usually an untidy person. If that were the case, I might consider the washed dishes a sign of someone covering their tracks. Has anyone thought about whether someone stayed at CL's house that night?

Edited to add: Presumably NYP have considered it, hence the fingertip search of the alley and quizzing neighbours about use of the alley and whether anyone drove cars up there (to remove CL).

 

[MajorLang]

To be honest, I'm not sure the toothbrush is relevant. I know it was mentioned by her father but would she take an electric toothbrush for an overnight stay? Most ppl have an ordinary brush for taking on holiday etc. Just my thoughts. Likewise I think it's difficult to read too much into the dishes situation (in terms of when she left the house) unless she was usually an untidy person. If that were the case, I might consider the washed dishes a sign of someone covering their tracks. Has anyone thought about whether someone stayed at CL's house that night?

Edited to add: Presumably NYP have considered it, hence the fingertip search of the alley and quizzing neighbours about use of the alley and whether anyone drove cars up there (to remove CL).

To be honest, I'm not sure the toothbrush is relevant. I know it was mentioned by her father but would she take an electric toothbrush for an overnight stay? Most ppl have an ordinary brush for taking on holiday etc. Just my thoughts. Likewise I think it's difficult to read too much into the dishes situation (in terms of when she left the house) unless she was usually an untidy person. If that were the case, I might consider the washed dishes a sign of someone covering their tracks. Has anyone thought about whether someone stayed at CL's house that night?

Edited to add: Presumably NYP have considered it, hence the fingertip search of the alley and quizzing neighbours about use of the alley and whether anyone drove cars up there (to remove CL).

Once you e used an electric toothbrush you don't very often go back I agree regarding the dishes though. They could have been from any particular morning or evening. Perhaps they are able to examine remaining food contents but that won't point towards a particular day. Unless she was known to have bought something to eat for that night at a local shop and there is no evidence of that.