GUILTY UK - Constance Marten & Mark Gordon charged in death of baby Victoria, GUILTY on all counts incl retrial on manslaughter, 5 Jan 2023 #9

[Sherlockhames]

Maybe the “system” (!) is trying to extend this court case as long as it possibly can in the hope that CM’s fertility eventually expires such that even if found not guilty and they are both released she won’t be able to conceive any more children naturally anyway and the authorities then won’t have to worry about this happening again in the future…. (I am being facetious and tongue in cheek here, had “geriatric” pregnancies myself etc etc but it has crossed my mind that the authorities might not have the strongest case and therefore are considering all the ways they can attempt this from happening again….!)

 

[Sherlockhames]

I doubt the jury deliberations will be short either as although I think the evidence is there, if there are enough members of the jury who feel sorry for them and believe that it was accidental then we could be heading for another hung jury. I hope not though. I do think they were negligent in their care of baby Victoria. But I could see some members of the jury believing that CM/MG believed they felt they had no choice but to take those risks. This is why I wish I was present to hear the judge summing up how they should be approaching the evidence supporting a guilty verdict in this case. I don’t believe they were carefree, and I do believe they wanted to keep this child safe. But I also think they were incredibly stupid and selfish and took the risks they did for selfish reasons, rather than in the best interests of their child.

 

[Deleted member 367833]

Maybe the “system” (!) is trying to extend this court case as long as it possibly can in the hope that CM’s fertility eventually expires such that even if found not guilty and they are both released she won’t be able to conceive any more children naturally anyway and the authorities then won’t have to worry about this happening again in the future…. (I am being facetious and tongue in cheek here, had “geriatric” pregnancies myself etc etc but it has crossed my mind that the authorities might not have the strongest case and therefore are considering all the ways they can attempt this from happening again….!)

Let's hope the judicial system isn't being abused in that way to deny a woman her right to choose.

They have already been kept in prison for what will soon be 2.5 years, at which point if they were to get a sentence of anything up to 5 years they would be released on the basis of time already served.

Sentencing guidelines for gross negligence manslaughter:

Gross negligence manslaughter

www.sentencingcouncil.org.uk

I doubt the jury deliberations will be short either as although I think the evidence is there, if there are enough members of the jury who feel sorry for them and believe that it was accidental then we could be heading for another hung jury. I hope not though. I do think they were negligent in their care of baby Victoria. But I could see some members of the jury believing that CM/MG believed they felt they had no choice but to take those risks. This is why I wish I was present to hear the judge summing up how they should be approaching the evidence supporting a guilty verdict in this case. I don’t believe they were carefree, and I do believe they wanted to keep this child safe. But I also think they were incredibly stupid and selfish and took the risks they did for selfish reasons, rather than in the best interests of their child.

Yes I agree the authorities may not believe they have a strong case. Parts of their evidence were things like she told the hotel clerk she was a journalist. Perhaps the crown will go large on communicating "If you don't feel you can vote guilty on manslaughter, remember there's the charge of causing or allowing a death too."

There would be a strong presumption against a second retrial:

Re-trials | The Crown Prosecution Service

www.cps.gov.uk

 

[Alyce]

Posting this more in hope than expectation. It is exactly the same as yesterday's listing, but there did not appear to be any trial activity on Tuesday ( other than the separate trial running now in Court 6 with Judge Lucraft ).
I know that reporting is inevitably going to be much lighter with this being a second trial - but at this point I think a carrier pigeon might bring more info than the media have done. And they do return, again and again.


www.courtserve.net


Central Criminal Court

Daily Courtroom List for Wednesday July 2

 

[Deleted member 367833]

Just going by the schedules and logs posted above for the past few court days, it seems the last known session with summing up was on Monday afternoon, and then the Gordon and Marten trial was listed for Tuesday 10am but so was another trial, ditto today. This is consistent with the judge leaving the last line of his summing up in G and M for Tuesday at 10am, then at that time saying "Good morning, members of the jury, please now go out and consider your verdicts", and then cracking on with the other trial, then around 4.30pm bringing back the parties in G and M and saying "See you tomorrow at 10am", and repeat.

This is total guesswork and goodness knows what else might have happened. If something else was scheduled for this case, such as a continuation of the summing up or legal argument, presumably it didn't happen, given that the other case ran all day. But there would surely have been space for adjourning the other case. Which suggests it wasn't "something else" that was scheduled.

But given especially that this case is this case, anything might have happened.

 

[Alyce]

www.thelawpages.com

 

[Alyce]

And on we go .....


www.thelawpages.com

 

[Deleted member 367833]

Oh well - the summing up continues.
Will this trial never end?

 

[Alyce]

Today's full schedule


www.thelawpages.com

 

[Nikynoo]

Today's full schedule


www.thelawpages.com

View attachment 599250

Thanks Alyce for the updates. This is

 

[Lucy6226]

When the summing up takes longer than the actual trial

 

[jackal67]

When the summing up takes longer than the actual trial

Its crazy !!

 

[CaptainNancy]

Hmmm: so all ground to a halt again after Legal Submissions. Do legal submissions generally crop up during or after summing up?

 

[Deleted member 367833]

Hmmm: so all ground to a halt again after Legal Submissions. Do legal submissions generally crop up during or after summing up?

Usually not much more than a quick point or two during. But another trial was scheduled in the same room today, so maybe the G and M one was only going to get half a day anyway. Perhaps the jury will be sent out first thing tomorrow.

 

[Deleted member 367833]

When is G and M adjourned until? Courtserve at the moment is showing only the trial of Isa Giga in Court 6 at the Old Bailey for tomorrow.

 

[bobbymkii]

When is G and M adjourned until? Courtserve at the moment is showing only the trial of Isa Giga in Court 6 at the Old Bailey for tomorrow.

Monday 7 July

https://twitter.com/x/status/1940388120698253801

 

[Deleted member 367833]

Monday 7 July

https://twitter.com/x/status/1940388120698253801

I got a msg saying "X trackers and content blocked", so I clicked on "Allow on websleuths.com" to open the link and ... !! You should have posted a warning! But thanks

 

[Lucy6226]

I got a msg saying "X trackers and content blocked", so I clicked on "Allow on websleuths.com" to open the link and ... !! You should have posted a warning! But thanks

Strange, opened fine for me.

 

[CaptainNancy]

Strange, opened fine for me.

And me

 

[Deleted member 367833]

Strange, opened fine for me.

I normally have X/Twitter blocked, so that if I see an article or message containing a tweet (as many news reports and blog thread headers do) I don't see the tweets.

There was nothing wrong with the link. I just had to disable my Twitter-block to see it. Then the big photo was kinda unexpected.