GUILTY UK - Constance Marten & Mark Gordon charged in death of baby Victoria, GUILTY on all counts incl retrial on manslaughter, 5 Jan 2023 #9

[Deleted member 367833]

She was eventually persuaded to return, a month later. The two children were removed from her on arrival, and she has never got them back.

Court papers reveal Constance Marten and Mark Gordon’s failures as parents

A years-long court case, which ended with the couple's four children being taken into care, can now be reported.

www.bbc.co.uk

Who said what to persuade her? Was it true? What effect did it have afterwards?

 

[Deleted member 367833]

IKWYM but she must have lost her mind surely? We know she was not always thus and we know that he had this offence since his teens so the person who was a sick, evil, violent, predator was definitely him. She must have been mentally corrupted by him because she surely did not start out like that? The fact she had such wealth, privilege, means, goes to prove the level of brainwashing, en-training, power and hold he had over her. It is said that people who fall into cults but escape are far more likely to also fall into cults again or be victims of con artists in the future than the average person because it's an emotional vulnerability that defies logic and experience. JMO MOO

Whatever happened to CM, goes without my first and foremost thought is that there should be justice for the baby and this sentence is the right thing.

BBM
Yes that is true, and con merchants know it.

 

[Alyce]

Days of court time was lost as Marten complained of toothache and fatigue from her three-hour journey from the Surrey prison where she was held. But when the judge arranged for her to see a dentist, she refused treatment

The retrial nearly collapsed entirely when she blurted out to the jury details of Gordon’s violent rape conviction. The prosecution later questioned whether the slip was an attempt to deliberately sabotage the proceedings as, having already stood trial once, she knew the importance of jurors not being privy to a defendant’s previous crimes.

How Constance Marten fell from society darling to being jailed for killing her baby

Complex family rift and a deep distrust of the authorities helped to drive Constance Marten off-grid with her rapist partner Mark Gordon, reports Amy-Clare Martin

www.independent.co.uk

 

[jackal67]

IKWYM but she must have lost her mind surely? We know she was not always thus and we know that he had this offence since his teens so the person who was a sick, evil, violent, predator was definitely him. She must have been mentally corrupted by him because she surely did not start out like that? The fact she had such wealth, privilege, means, goes to prove the level of brainwashing, en-training, power and hold he had over her. It is said that people who fall into cults but escape are far more likely to also fall into cults again or be victims of con artists in the future than the average person because it's an emotional vulnerability that defies logic and experience. JMO MOO

Whatever happened to CM, goes without my first and foremost thought is that there should be justice for the baby and this sentence is the right thing.

Have you read the family court papers that have now been published.? The judge agreed that MG was violent but said in her opinion CM was the dominant one of the pair. It is an interesting read for sure. He was in prison for 20 weeks after the birth of the first baby, She was in a mother and baby placement so could easily have stayed away from him as she had support for herself and the babyand they were safe
But no when he was released she went to visit him and left the baby for 17 hours!
I believe that if she had a mental health illness it would have been picked up long ago.
She chose him over her kids time and time again

 

[jackal67]

Why could he not have done the travelling? Possible answers include curfew and sign-on.

 

[Nikynoo]

From the couple's disruptive and unpredictable behaviour, to Marten’s accusations in the witness box about her aristocratic family, private detectives, and social services.

The judge accused them of trying to "sabotage" and "derail" their retrial.

"I have sat as a full time Judge now for thirteen years and I have never had that sort of attitude shown to me by anybody," His Honour Judge Mark Lucraft KC said about Marten one day.

The couple dominated and deflected, demanded and distracted.

They caused endless delays by not turning up.

Barristers were sacked. Others withdrew.

Marten got through an extraordinary number - 14 since their first hearing at the Old Bailey.

They disrespected the judge, were rude to some of the dock officers and would often chat during proceedings.

Constance Marten and Mark Gordon guilty of gross negligence manslaughter over baby's death

Victoria's body was found in a shopping bag in a Brighton allotment shed in March 2023, two months after the couple went on the run.

www.bbc.co.uk

And this is how they have acted with the outside world since they met. What a mess they are as human beings. They really need to be apart for a very long time.

 

[Deleted member 367833]

Days of court time was lost as Marten complained of toothache and fatigue from her three-hour journey from the Surrey prison where she was held. But when the judge arranged for her to see a dentist, she refused treatment

The retrial nearly collapsed entirely when she blurted out to the jury details of Gordon’s violent rape conviction. The prosecution later questioned whether the slip was an attempt to deliberately sabotage the proceedings as, having already stood trial once, she knew the importance of jurors not being privy to a defendant’s previous crimes.

How Constance Marten fell from society darling to being jailed for killing her baby

Complex family rift and a deep distrust of the authorities helped to drive Constance Marten off-grid with her rapist partner Mark Gordon, reports Amy-Clare Martin

www.independent.co.uk

Reporters could try harder to get into rational mode on this. What she said cannot have been both an accidental slip and deliberate. Personally, having read her words, and being unaware of her having an impulsive streak, I think it was planned and deliberate.

In reply to a question asking why they didn't tell the authorities that Victoria had died, she said

"Mark has a violent rape conviction and spent 22 years in prison, so my fear was that they’d immediately scapegoat him, which is what they usually do."

 

[jackal67]

Why could she not have done the right thing and stayed well away from him!! She and the baby were safe and being cared for. The violent rapist had been to prison for assaulting 2 female police officers
But no she put him first as always. She disgusts me more than him and thats saying something MOO

 

[Nikynoo]

snipped from above....


"I have sat as a full time Judge now for thirteen years and I have never had that sort of attitude shown to me by anybody," His Honour Judge Mark Lucraft KC said about Marten one day.



Considering that he is the top Judge in England, that really shows the huge level of disrespect that the Court, Judge, Counsel and staff had to deal with over two trials and a two year span.

No wonder it took him to long to sum up!

 

[Deleted member 367833]

Have you read the family court papers that have now been published.? The judge agreed that MG was violent but said in her opinion CM was the dominant one of the pair. It is an interesting read for sure. He was in prison for 20 weeks after the birth of the first baby, She was in a mother and baby placement so could easily have stayed away from him as she had support for herself and the babyand they were safe
But no when he was released she went to visit him and left the baby for 17 hours!
I believe that if she had a mental health illness it would have been picked up long ago.
She chose him over her kids time and time again

Have the actual papers been published? The BBC write-up is here:

Court papers reveal Constance Marten and Mark Gordon’s failures as parents

A years-long court case, which ended with the couple's four children being taken into care, can now be reported.

www.bbc.co.uk

"Judge Reardon said (...) 'The strong impression given by the parents is that of two people who are fiercely united in an unrelenting struggle against a non-existent opponent'."

That is saying they are psychotic. Having a delusional system of that kind is psychosis. I don't think they are anything of the kind, but that is what is being said here. It cannot at the one and the same time be true that two people are fiercely united in an unrelenting struggle against an opponent who does not exist and they are not psychotic.

 

[Deleted member 367833]

Why could he not have done the travelling? Possible answers include curfew and sign-on.

@jackal - I don't know why the "wow" to this. I am only wondering what the reason was. Perhaps she had him under tight control, or he had her under tight control, or he suffers panic attacks when travelling alone, or perhaps she wanted to meet up more than he did, or goodness knows what. It could be anything. Just wondering, that's all. But there must have been a reason why she was the one that did the travelling on that occasion, rather than him.

 

[jackal67]

Will they be able to communicate once sentenced and incarcerated? They will no doubt try to find a way.
I'm just hoping he will be involved in some violent incident that he causes in prison and is killed. I think that would be the only way to finally severe the cords between them ..

I expect he will be placed in the vulnerable prisoners wing for his own protection. He is after all a SO and now for this crime against a baby he will be a target for sure.
Not sure how CM will fare in Gen Pop either

 

[jackal67]

Have the actual papers been published? The BBC write-up is here:

Court papers reveal Constance Marten and Mark Gordon’s failures as parents

A years-long court case, which ended with the couple's four children being taken into care, can now be reported.

www.bbc.co.uk

"Judge Reardon said (...) 'The strong impression given by the parents is that of two people who are fiercely united in an unrelenting struggle against a non-existent opponent'."

That is saying they are psychotic. Having a delusional system of that kind is psychosis. I don't think they are anything of the kind, but that is what is being said here. It cannot at the one and the same time be true that two people are fiercely united in an unrelenting struggle against an opponent who does not exist and they are not psychotic.

It isnt saying they were psychotic though .That is your intepretation.

 

[Obergine]

Couple lost appeal against cruelty conviction between baby death trials

Constance Marten and her partner Mark Gordon lost an appeal against their convictions after their first trial related to the death of their baby…

www.theargus.co.uk

 

[Alyce]

Big Thank You to the Mod who has changed the header for this thread. It is so good, after more than 2 very long years of following this case, to see the Guilty on ALL charges banner for these two criminals.

 

[Parker Knoll]

This is an interesting news piece from Channel 4 in the UK.
It includes her father’s pleas to CM to come home.
He sounds such a decent father.

 

[Yellowbelly]

Couple lost appeal against cruelty conviction between baby death trials

Constance Marten and her partner Mark Gordon lost an appeal against their convictions after their first trial related to the death of their baby…

www.theargus.co.uk

If they've already appealed against their convictions in the first trial, do we think that means that they've already been sentenced for those crimes, but it couldn't be reported because the cruelty conviction couldn't be reported?

 

[Anxala]

IKWYM but she must have lost her mind surely? We know she was not always thus and we know that he had this offence since his teens so the person who was a sick, evil, violent, predator was definitely him. She must have been mentally corrupted by him because she surely did not start out like that? The fact she had such wealth, privilege, means, goes to prove the level of brainwashing, en-training, power and hold he had over her. It is said that people who fall into cults but escape are far more likely to also fall into cults again or be victims of con artists in the future than the average person because it's an emotional vulnerability that defies logic and experience. JMO MOO

Whatever happened to CM, goes without my first and foremost thought is that there should be justice for the baby and this sentence is the right thing.

Based on all the new info that's come out now the verdict is in, I'm inclined to agree with the above.

That doesn't in the least free her from blame for the actions she took that resulted in her baby's death and the verdict is absolutely the correct one.

It does though raise the issue of whether a jail sentence for her is the answer here. She seems far more in need of urgent psychiatric help than anything else.

 

[Teignmouth 22]

R.I.P. Victoria

 

[Alyce]

Gross negligence manslaughter​

Common law
Guideline effective from: 01 November 2018

Triable only on indictment
Maximum: Life imprisonment
Offence range: 1 – 18 years’ custody

A Very high culpability​

Very High culpability may be indicated by:​

• the extreme character of one or more culpability B factors and /or
• a combination of culpability B factors

B – Factors indicating high culpability​

• The offender continued or repeated the negligent conduct in the face of the obvious suffering caused to the deceased by that conduct
• The negligent conduct was in the context of other serious criminality
• The offence was particularly serious because the offender showed a blatant disregard for a very high risk of death resulting from the negligent conduct
• The negligent conduct was motivated by financial gain (or avoidance of cost)
• The offender was in a leading role if acting with others in the offending
• Concealment, destruction, defilement or dismemberment of the body (where not separately charged)

Gross negligence manslaughter

www.sentencingcouncil.org.uk

Gross negligence manslaughter – Sentencing