GUILTY UK - Constance Marten & Mark Gordon charged in death of baby Victoria, Guilty on counts 1 & 5, 2025 retrial on manslaughter, 5 Jan 2023 #8

[Skigh]

For me a bag for life is one that you buy from a supermarket and keep long term (like the one in the picture). Maybe it just means different things to different people.

That is also what I consider as a bag for life .

 

[Baby baby Jane]

I wish people would stop calling it a "bag for life".
A bag for life is an ordinary flimsy carrier bag. It is called a "bag for life" because once it is too worn or damaged to use, it can be exchanged for a new one, free of charge, an unlimited number of times.

The type of shopping bag they had is more robust and larger with an expanding base. Like this.

NEW Lidl large Big On the Big Shop SHOPPING BAG Reused-able | eBay UK

2 sided strong wipe-able bag with 2 short handles. World £6.99.

www.ebay.co.uk

Call me pedantic, but I feel that a distinction should be made between these two different things.

Expanding base … but no firm flat surface for baby:
From NIH … US National Institute for Health

“Soft surfaces, like couches, sofas, waterbeds, memory foam, air or pillow-top adult mattresses, quilts, blankets, and sheepskins are not safe for babies to sleep on.

Learn more about other sleep-related deathsincluding entrapment, suffocation, and strangulation.
Sleeping under quilts, blankets, sheepskins, and other soft coverings also increases the risk of sleep-related infant death from suffocation and strangulation.

Sleep surfaces with one end higher than the other are not safe for babies to sleep on, because baby’s body can slide down and their head can slump forward. This can cause positional asphyxia, which is when baby’s body position gets in the way of their breathing.

Similarly, sleep surfaces that elevate both baby’s head and feet, like a hammock, also increase the risk for positional asphyxia. Sitting with the head down and the chin on or near the chest could block baby’s airway and cause suffocation.

For these reasons, baby’s sleep surface should be firm (returns to its original shape quickly if pressed on), flat (like a table, not a hammock), and level (not at an angle or inclined).”

Possible, as some have suggested baby died in the bag, like a “hammock” forced baby into chin to chest & blocked airway. Or whatever blankets they put in the bag to make her a “bed” or disguise/cover her smothered her.

​

Sleep-Related Infant Deaths: Updated 2022 Recommendations for Reducing Infant Deaths in the Sleep Environment - PubMed
TO TOP

 

[Cherwell]

For me a bag for life is one that you buy from a supermarket and keep long term (like the one in the picture). Maybe it just means different things to different people.

The flimsy ones are branded "bag for life" because you can replace them free of charge as many times as you need to, i.e. for the rest of your life.

Sustainability

www.about.sainsburys.co.uk

The stronger ones are built to last, but they don't last for ever, and then you have to buy another.

 

[Cherwell]

Expanding base … but no firm flat surface for baby:

I was describing the differences between this type of bag and the other kind. I wasn't saying it was a suitable receptacle for carrying a baby.

 

[dotr]

What’s on at the Old Bailey on May 1

Cases of interest at the Old Bailey on Thursday Court 5 at 10am trial of Javier Rodriguez-McDonald and others in relation to the murder of Sebastiaan James-Kraan,20. The victim died in hospital thr…

old-bailey.com

''Cases of interest at the Old Bailey on Thursday''
''Court 6 at 10am trial of Constance Marten and Mark Gordon. The pair are charged with the manslaughter of their newborn baby daughter Victoria whose remains were found in a Lidl “bag for life” in a Brighton allotment shed.''

 

[Carriep]

72. Do you believe in a fair trial? A testimony from Constance Marten on trial at the Old Bailey - Rebel Justice

Read Constance's article in the current issue of The view: https://theviewmag.org.uk/product/the-view-magazine-13/The right to a fair trial is the cornerstone of justice, but what happens when the systems designed to facilitate that right undermin...

rebeljustice.buzzsprout.com

Constance Marten 20th March 2025
Whether on remand or not, it's every human being's inalienable right to have access to a fair trial, a legal team and dignity in the process of justice. The state has made the decision to charge me and deny me bail for over two years. It should be a given necessity that remand prisoners like me have access to a legal team and I'm able to get enough rest between long court days to attend my trial to a legal team and I'm able to get enough rest between long court days to attend my trial. This is a problem that affects female prisoners more harshly and disproportionately than our male counterparts.

Bronzefield, where I am held, is two hours away from London by prison van. The knock-on effect is that Serco, the government transport defence contractor that has the prison transport contracts in this area, squeezes as many women as it can into one van that can carry prisoners. They're paid for prisoners, they transport not per trip, and companies are obliged to deliver maximum profit to their shareholders with minimum concern for the dignity, rights or decent treatment of women prisoners. They turn them all into one van with two Serco officers, one driving and one in the back, by the prisoners. This means paying minimum wages to pay for misuse of fuel and less wear and tear on their prison vans, which the ECHR has deemed unfit for transporting humans. Of course this means maximum profits.

Bronzefield is a remand prison but it's not catering to remand prisoners. They do their manual roll count at 6.30pm and 9pm on weekdays, but this is the window of time that vans usually return from the court. Prisoners could be stuck inside their individual metal cages in the Serco vans for hours and hours outside the prison until the roll count numbers are cleared and it would surprise you how many prison officers don't know how to count and how many times the count has to be repeated.

Now vans are allowed onto the premises while this is going on and returns have been prevented from accessing the prisons for up to six hours, taking the average time to return from court to between 9.30pm and midnight. Prisoners are then woken up at 5.15pm to attend court the next day, then locked behind a door in the reception area until 7.30am when the first Serco van leaves with the prisoners.

The old Bailey prisoners get dropped off first because it's a prestigious court picking up prisoners during rush hour. A very heavy route between central London and Heathrow. It makes no sense having a morning drive three hours on arrival at the court, but there's no time then for the prisoner to see their legal team by the time they are at the court. Court begins by barristers and lawyers having been there since 9am and courts refuse legal meetings after 4.30pm, which is the time the court day finishes. So by not allowing prisoners to have time with our legal teams, this is a basic human right.

Being ordered against Court food is disgusting and it's inadequate. It's just a tiny microwave meal that hasn't been changed for over 20 years, left in the old Bailey's stone cold cells in the basement until 7.30pm to 8.30pm every day. Because I'm the only female on trial at the moment, in the van I'm driven around London to all the other courts to pick up the other female prisoners on trial. Suddenly, old Bailey is freezing, the heating isn't working at the moment trial. Suddenly, old Bailey is freezing, the heating isn't working at the moment.

Yesterday I got back to the prison at 10pm being made to do these 17-19 hour days with little or no rest, no food, and I'm then expected to be alert in the dock. I think it really prejudices my case when I'm falling asleep in front of the jury when I decide to attend, but then when I don't decide to attend because I'm just too tired. It reflects badly on me and makes me seem like I care so little about my trial that I'm falling asleep. That's just not true. My life depends on the outcome of this trial. Serco are fined if they collect prisoners after two hours of their court case, but fines are so minimal that they just ignore it. It's no skin off their back. Co-workers are not allowed to work beyond 11 hour shifts and if they do, they must have a 24 hour break.

So Serco recognises the need for rest as a basic function of being a human. How can I attend a highly emotionally charged case with my liberty on the line and remain alert and attentive for three months with very, very little rest and no adequate access to my legal team while my trial is ongoing? It's just complete madness. Many women are in contempt of court because they quit attending after a few days. The men leave as soon as their case is finished because the court is full of males returning to the same prison, usually Belmarsh. They don't attend court after so many days, whereas I'm placed on Governor's report so many times for not attending and I end up in the segregation unit.

This entire system will continue, preventing us from having a right to a fair trial. As long as we allow this to continue, as long as we allow this to continue, I feel as if I need to sue Serco for adversely affecting my trial, preventing me from accessing my lawyers, and for my mental health, which is in pieces.

(Note: "Gardner's report" edited to "governor's report" which presumably got garbled in transcription.)

 

[Zuleika]

Didn't at least one report use the word orange in the description of a bag the couple carried ?

 

[Skigh]

Didn't at least one report use the word orange in the description of a bag the couple carried ?

I really do not think that the colour of the bag or exact name makes a huge amount of difference. Any supermarket or shopping bag is entirely unsuitable to be used to carry a new born baby.

 

[Yellowbelly]

72. Do you believe in a fair trial? A testimony from Constance Marten on trial at the Old Bailey - Rebel Justice

Read Constance's article in the current issue of The view: https://theviewmag.org.uk/product/the-view-magazine-13/The right to a fair trial is the cornerstone of justice, but what happens when the systems designed to facilitate that right undermin...

rebeljustice.buzzsprout.com

(Note: "Gardner's report" edited to "governor's report" which presumably got garbled in transcription.)

Strikes me that this is an example of 'poor me', or possibly laying the groundwork for an appeal based on the idea of not having had a fair trial.

Also, she's not really on remand at all. She's been found guilty of some offences already, so in effect she's currently serving the prison sentence that she'll receive at some point for those.

 

[Carriep]

Have there been any reports of what questions CM was asked in the witness box to which she replied by giving her views about modern medicine and vaccinations?

Runaway aristocrat Constance Marten claims children 'stolen by the state'

Aristocrat accused of manslaughter told the Old Bailey she did ‘everything to protect’ her baby daughter

www.standard.co.uk

 

[Alyce]

Today's schedule


www.thelawpages.com

 

[jackal67]

That is also what I consider as a bag for life .

me too

 

[CaptainNancy]

So the court sat for 18 minutes.

I am getting a bad feeling about this.

 

[CaptainNancy]

Much busier today:
Constance Marten 'feared being dubbed evil over baby's death'

“Aristocrat Constance Marten says she did not report her baby’s death and hand herself in to police over fears she would be branded an “evil mother” and a “murderess”, the Old Bailey has heard.”
“
Giving evidence on Friday, Marten said she refused to comment in police interview because officers were “treating us like criminals”, and she did not want detectives to find her baby’s body.
“I thought they were never going to believe me, they were trying to make this situation something nefarious”, she said.”

 

[CaptainNancy]

Constance Marten says she didn’t report baby’s death over ‘evil mother’ fears

 

[OceanElix]

Well, if the shoe fits.

 

[dotr]

Constance Marten says she didn’t report baby’s death over ‘evil mother’ fears

It really all comes down to this.. from link..imo. rbbm

“I just felt like the whole press thing, we were being made out to be dangerous individuals who had to be found.
“I was hoping they would not find the body.''

 

[Yellowbelly]

It really all comes down to this.. from link..imo. rbbm

“I just felt like the whole press thing, we were being made out to be dangerous individuals who had to be found.
“I was hoping they would not find the body.''

Then why not bury the body rather than leaving it in a shopping bag under a pile of rubbish?

Anyway, how is this part of the evidence relevant to the charge she faces? She's already been found guilty of PTCOJ over not reporting the death.

 

[dotr]

Then why not bury the body rather than leaving it in a shopping bag under a pile of rubbish?

Anyway, how is this part of the evidence relevant to the charge she faces? She's already been found guilty of PTCOJ over not reporting the death.

Nothing to do with the evidence or charges faced, it is only my opinion that the two statements summarize a particular attitude by CM, speculation.

 

[CaptainNancy]

Interesting take by CM.

My memory of that time, seeing the case in the media and the appeals to find CM and MG and their baby is that I felt that the police were primarily concerned gif their welfare, and possibly because there were complications concerning their welfare that was not being stated because it was confidential.

Certainly no sense that they were dangerous individuals. Not at all,