GUILTY UK - Constance Marten & Mark Gordon charged in death of baby Victoria, Guilty on counts 1 & 5, 2025 retrial on manslaughter, 5 Jan 2023 #8

[Maltesepuppy]

Constance Marten’s partner suggested they ‘go together on pyre’ after baby death

Mark Gordon said he found their daughter Victoria had gone limp after they pitched a tent on the South Downs amid a national manhunt.

www.eastlothiancourier.com

He added: “There was no plan to go and live in the forest or live in the woods. It was somewhere to sleep for the night, nothing more than that.

“We decided we can do that for a day and then we can find somewhere more stable.”

Were they not living in a tent in 2017 when pregnant with their first baby?
Did CM not say they had "an alternative lifestyle" and asked the social worker "not to judge".
There was no "manhunt" to blame for then, just two inept individuals who thought having a baby in a tent was perfectly fine.
They were also ill equipped too for that baby in terms of preparations.
Who would they had blamed if that baby had succumbed to that environment?
I'm sure they would have found someone.
Luckily accommodation was sought prior to that baby’s birth.

JMO MOO

 

[Carriep]

On his reason for giving evidence, Gordon said: “I did not want to take the stand but I felt it was imperative I tell the jury what happened in this case, hopefully resolve issues.


How extremely noble of him.

Also in those words "resolve issues" is the suggestion (IMO) that MG will accept cross-examination, whether by the crown, the judge, his co-defendant, or jurors.

From the point of view of wanting evidence to be properly tested, this is surely a good thing. It would be possible to hope that in the exchanges to come the crown counsel will raise his game somewhat from when he asked the other defendant things like whether she thought what she did was "despicable" or not. At least to counsel's credit he didn't (AFAIAA) sink as far as sarcasm, which shouldn't really help any side's case in a law court. (JMO).

 

[Skigh]

.

Appealing to the jury, he said: “We will have to live with this forever"

Well, at least you get to live you self centred, narcissistic individual! Unlike poor Victoria, whose life was miserable and cut so short.


"It was a safe environment, for us, we would put ourselves out to ensure the baby’s wellbeing.”

Is he for real? Is he trying to present themselves as the ultimate self-sacrificing martyrs? Because nothing says safety and wellbeing like a cold tent where Victoria lost her life.

Everytime any of these 2 open their mouths they disgust me more.
The degree of narcicism; self-pity; concern for how they are perceived; the constant reminders of how things impacted THEM; the self-congratulatory comments about what great parents they were and the overall lack of remorse and empathy for Victoria makes me enraged.

It's just as well I wasn't part of the jury. I would have had to be restrained.

JMO MOO

I think he is a well practised con artist and is absolutely loving taking centre stage and playing the role of a barrister. He probably considers himself more skilled than the real ones.
He will be trying to gauge what will gain the most support from the jury ,being the underdogs hounded by family and police or being ostracized by racist family members who send out spies to thwart their every move.

 

[Carriep]

Constance Marten’s partner suggested they ‘go together on pyre’ after baby death

Mark Gordon said he found their daughter Victoria had gone limp after they pitched a tent on the South Downs amid a national manhunt.

www.eastlothiancourier.com

He added: “There was no plan to go and live in the forest or live in the woods. It was somewhere to sleep for the night, nothing more than that.

“We decided we can do that for a day and then we can find somewhere more stable.”

Were they not living in a tent in 2017 when pregnant with their first baby?
Did CM not say they had "an alternative lifestyle" and asked the social worker "not to judge".
There was no "manhunt" to blame for then, just two inept individuals who thought having a baby in a tent was perfectly fine.
They were also ill equipped too for that baby in terms of preparations.
Who would they had blamed if that baby had succumbed to that environment?
I'm sure they would have found someone.
Luckily accommodation was sought prior to that baby’s birth.

JMO MOO

"Were they not living in a tent in 2017 when pregnant with their first baby?"

Good question. If the CPS are on the ball, he'll be asked that question - or if they don't, the judge or a member of the jury can ask it. And followup questions too regarding the couple's choices and experiences in respect of their older children, and their reasons.

 

[Carriep]

We dont know that she wasnt at the police station with him though she could well have been as they are seldom apart

Yes it's possible. More likely in Sheffield on 19th than Leeds on 26th. I doubt she'd have walked through the door of a police station voluntarily on either occasion though.

But given that he can't drive, presumably it was she who drove the car down from Northumberland to Leeds - a 2 or 2.5 hour drive two days after giving birth if the baby was born on Christmas Eve. So she could have been nearby even if she didn't enter the building. As far as we know, he was signing on as required and there'd have been no reason to fear arrest. Perhaps he made sure he wasn't being followed. Total speculation but interesting. (JMO).

Nonetheless, if she did accompany him on the 19th why would the police officer at the desk care to make a note about who accompanied him and that she was pregnant?

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

Yes it's possible. More likely in Sheffield on 19th than Leeds on 26th. I doubt she'd have walked through the door of a police station voluntarily on either occasion though.

But given that he can't drive, presumably it was she who drove the car down from Northumberland to Leeds - a 2 or 2.5 hour drive two days after giving birth if the baby was born on Christmas Eve. So she could have been nearby even if she didn't enter the building. As far as we know, he was signing on as required and there'd have been no reason to fear arrest. Perhaps he made sure he wasn't being followed. Total speculation but interesting. (JMO).

Nonetheless, if she did accompany him on the 19th why would the police officer at the desk care to make a note about who accompanied him and that she was pregnant?

BBM Depending if the person is of interest, police are sometimes tasked with making notes / observations that are added on to a file for possible future reference. I supposed they could always be tasked with being on the look out for particular things (such as pregnant partners). In London, this information collection is called 'Crimint Database' (criminal intelligence) and from what I understand any officer who notices anything that could be useful in the future can log on a piece of information, it can be quite mundane info such as noting clothing or model of phone the person has etc.

I don't know how it works outside of the Met Police but they could potentially have a similar thing or something could have been flagged up against MG when he attends? I don't perceive the police as being that organised and efficient but maybe. JMO

 

[Carriep]

Does anyone remember the report during the first trial of CM saying during her testimony that she had some bags ready-packed for bugging out? My recollection is that she said she kept 3 bags in different places, each containing a full bug-out carry. I'm interested in what period this related to.

 

[jackal67]

Yes it's possible. More likely in Sheffield on 19th than Leeds on 26th. I doubt she'd have walked through the door of a police station voluntarily on either occasion though.

But given that he can't drive, presumably it was she who drove the car down from Northumberland to Leeds - a 2 or 2.5 hour drive two days after giving birth if the baby was born on Christmas Eve. So she could have been nearby even if she didn't enter the building. As far as we know, he was signing on as required and there'd have been no reason to fear arrest. Perhaps he made sure he wasn't being followed. Total speculation but interesting. (JMO).

Nonetheless, if she did accompany him on the 19th why would the police officer at the desk care to make a note about who accompanied him and that she was pregnant?

Perhaps the desk officer was interviewed after the car fire when they went on the run? Although it has been stated that MG didn,t,drive it is possible that he did drive without a license plenty of people do! Also if I recall didn,t the witness at the roadside car fire say that MG got out of the drivers side?

 

[Alyce]

Today's schedule so far...by my calculations, it amounts to 25 minutes


www.thelawpages.com

 

[Alyce]

Perhaps the desk officer was interviewed after the car fire when they went on the run? Although it has been stated that MG didn,t,drive it is possible that he did drive without a license plenty of people do! Also if I recall didn,t the witness at the roadside car fire say that MG got out of the drivers side?

Yes, Ken Hudson testified that he saw MG get out of the driver side of the car.




Mr Hudson said he saw a woman get out of the passenger’s side of the car and run past him on the hard shoulder, while the male driver "frantically" pulled items out of the burning vehicle.

'I could have saved baby of runaway aristocrat Constance Marten' - motorist

Ken Hudson said he is "cut up" by the thought he could have saved Constance Marten's baby's life

www.standard.co.uk

 

[jackal67]

Today's schedule so far...by my calculations, it amounts to 25 minutes


www.thelawpages.com

View attachment 587855

What is going on ??

 

[jackal67]

Constance Marten’s partner suggested they ‘go together on pyre’ after baby death

Mark Gordon said he found their daughter Victoria had gone limp after they pitched a tent on the South Downs amid a national manhunt.

www.eastlothiancourier.com

He added: “There was no plan to go and live in the forest or live in the woods. It was somewhere to sleep for the night, nothing more than that.

“We decided we can do that for a day and then we can find somewhere more stable.”

Were they not living in a tent in 2017 when pregnant with their first baby?
Did CM not say they had "an alternative lifestyle" and asked the social worker "not to judge".
There was no "manhunt" to blame for then, just two inept individuals who thought having a baby in a tent was perfectly fine.
They were also ill equipped too for that baby in terms of preparations.
Who would they had blamed if that baby had succumbed to that environment?
I'm sure they would have found someone.
Luckily accommodation was sought prior to that baby’s birth.

JMO MOO

absolutely and where were they living prior to Victorias birth? Sound like they were living in the car! They had months to prepare for the birth and find somewhere to live !!

 

[iamshadow21]

absolutely and where were they living prior to Victorias birth? Sound like they were living in the car! They had months to prepare for the birth and find somewhere to live !!

And plenty of resources to do it.

Anyone who categories this couple with other rough sleepers with young children does so wrongly. They could have slept in a lovely Airbnb every night and not even come close to exhausting their money.

That's why their choices matter. Their desperation was entirely artificial, of their own creation.

MOO

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

Does anyone remember the report during the first trial of CM saying during her testimony that she had some bags ready-packed for bugging out? My recollection is that she said she kept 3 bags in different places, each containing a full bug-out carry. I'm interested in what period this related to.

What does bugging out mean please?

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

absolutely and where were they living prior to Victorias birth? Sound like they were living in the car! They had months to prepare for the birth and find somewhere to live !!

I think they had lost their rental home and had been evicted maybe, recall there was some news about it being in terrible repair with damp / collapsing ceiling or some such?

 

[Maltesepuppy]

I think they had lost their rental home and had been evicted maybe, recall there was some news about it being in terrible repair with damp / collapsing ceiling or some such?

Clearly, putting themselves out for their baby's safety and well-being like that deluded MG was patting himself on the back for.

 

[Carriep]

What does bugging out mean please?

Evacuating from a place very quickly, leaving everything behind except what you need for survival, and going off grid, perhaps because there is no longer a grid or for whatever reason. Users of the term include those who are preparing or "prepping" for social breakdown, known as "preppers". (In the military it just means dropping everything and getting out fast.) I am not suggesting CM or MG were "preppers", but the way I recall this report on CM's testimony it was to do with serious and organised preparation for fast evacuation, "disappearance", and living from a suitcase, so the term "bugging out" seems apposite. My memory may be inaccurate, but I'm fairly sure there was something about bags in three different places, and I think this was in a write-up of the evidence she gave under cross-examination by the crown last time.

 

[Skigh]

Evacuating from a place very quickly, leaving everything behind except what you need for survival, and going off grid, perhaps because there is no longer a grid or for whatever reason. Users of the term include those who are preparing or "prepping" for social breakdown, known as "preppers". (In the military it just means dropping everything and getting out fast.) I am not suggesting CM or MG were "preppers", but the way I recall this testimony from CM it was to do with serious and organised preparation for fast evacuation, "disappearance", and living from a suitcase, so the term "bugging out" seems apposite. My memory may be inaccurate, but I'm fairly sure there was something about bags in three different places.

Maybe they were ready to run when the landlords saw what a total mess they had made in the house they rented.

 

[Alyce]

Judge Lucraft told jurors he had ruled on Thursday that the prosecution can now put forward new evidence in the case, and adjourned the trial for that evidence to be prepared.

Gordon, who is representing himself, went into the witness box to be cross-examined by prosecutor Tom Little KC.
But before any questions were asked, he declared: “All right, that’s it.”
Gordon then suggested he would answer some questions, but added: “If you are asking questions not about the case, I’m not answering.”

Judge Lucraft then clarified if Gordon’s evidence would continue - the defendant replied “no

Judge Lucraft warned him that jurors could draw inferences from his decision to cut short his evidence and said he would direct the jury to give * minimal weight* to the evidence Gordon has already put forward.

Judge Lucraft then told Gordon that he could return to the back of the court, where Marten sat in the dock with her head down.





More at the links .............

Constance Marten's partner Mark Gordon ends manslaughter trial evidence early

Mark Gordon told the court ‘I’m finished with my testimony’ as he returned to the Old Bailey witness box

www.standard.co.uk

Constance Marten’s partner refuses to answer prosecution questions

Marten and Mark Gordon are charged with the manslaughter of their baby daughter Victoria, who died in a tent on the South Downs in 2023.

www.standard.co.uk

 

[jackal67]

Maybe they were ready to run when the landlords saw what a total mess they had made in the house they rented.

sure there were reports of unpaid rent too. what on earth did they spend all their money on ?
they could have rented a decent place anywhere surely to prepare for Victorias birth,