UK - Constance Marten & Mark Gordon charged, Newborn (found deceased), Bolton Greater Manchester, 5 Jan 2023 #4

[JTT]

British state media is going very large on its story about sexual and other violence that took place in a religious cult in Nigeria up to 2021.

This article is currently the state broadcaster's top feature on its website:

TB Joshua’s daughter: Tortured after standing up to ‘Daddy’

The first person to blow the whistle on the abuse at the megapastor's church was his young daughter.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[JTT]

Thinking?
that is my signature.
The rest of the post which you edited out is a link to the 3 U tube programmes on the cult as the BBC is not available worldwide but U tube is...

Ah....sorry! I thought you meant "Hmmm...that makes me wonder" about the linked material. Didn't realise it was your signature.

 

[kittythehare]

Ah....sorry! I thought you meant "Hmmm...that makes me wonder" about the linked material. Didn't realise it was your signature.

I spent a lot of time thinking about this case,
I don't even have the remotest idea why they did what they apparently did.
And I don't know when they decided to do this or what if any other factors were at play.
And I doubt I ever will.

 

[bobbymkii]

Court listing says the trial begins tomorrow, even though it's been reported that it doesn't begin until 22nd?

What’s on at the Old Bailey on January 15 (court 5)

SITTING AT 11:30 am

For Trial

T20237104	GORDON Mark A	01MP1072723	SUSWM	CPS
	MARTEN Constance	01MP1072723

 

[Alyce]

Doesn't look as though there will be too much Court activity today. A late start due to a sentencing at 10am and then another sentencing at 2pm. They will probably just manage to do Jury selection.

 

[bobbymkii]

Doesn't look as though there will be too much Court activity today. A late start due to a sentencing at 10am and then another sentencing at 2pm. They will probably just manage to do Jury selection.

You should check out the case that's being sentenced in the same courtroom today if you're not already aware. It's called the "Eunuch Maker" trial and as the title suggests, it's a pretty crazy story!

 

[bobbymkii]

case started. Eunuch maker sentencing adjourned until 14:00 according to TLP:

Central Criminal Court​	5​	T20237104​	Constance Marten Mark Alton Gordon​
Details: For Trial - Case Started - 12:25

 

[bobbymkii]

 

[Alyce]

Prosecution - Tom Little

As Senior Treasury Counsel, Tom Little KC regularly prosecutes some of the country’s most high-profile cases.

This includes
the murder of Jo Cox MP,
the kidnap, rape and murder of Sarah Everard
the murder of Sir David Amess MP.

Tom Little KC - Barrister - Deka Chambers

As Senior Treasury Counsel, Tom Little KC regularly prosecutes some of the country’s most high-profile cases.

www.dekachambers.com

 

[Alyce]

View attachment 474854

That explains the date of January 22

Jury to be sworn in over next couple of days - that sounds like a long time to find 12 people

 

[CaptainNancy]

The most senior Old Bailey judge!

 

[JennieM]

They deny the manslaughter of Victoria by gross negligence, concealment of the birth of a child and perverting the course of justice

They also deny child cruelty and causing or allowing the death of a child between 4 January and 27 February.

The trial is set to last four to six weeks.

Marten appeared wearing a black cardigan, white blouse with a purple scarf and holding a stack of notes.

Judge Mark Lucraft, KC, the Recorder of London, said 14 jurors, with two reserves to listen to the opening in case issues arise with any other juror, would be selected for the trial.

Prosecutor Tom Little, KC, is expected to open the case to the jury next week.

He is assisted by Joel Smith, while Marten is represented by John Ryder, KC, and Gordon by John Femi-Ola, KC, and Neena Crinnion.

Aristocrat whose baby was found dead in a plastic bag appears in court

Constance Marten , 36, and Mark Gordon, 49, appeared at the Old Bailey on trial for manslaughter of their child, Victoria by gross negligence last January which they both deny.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

Four to six weeks doesn't sound long.

I guess it's all pretty straightforward in legal terms? even though it makes my mind boggle.

Also quite surprisingly quick in terms of the fact that it seems the defendants aren't co-operative type of people, have probably disputed and conflicted one another and also denied everything, are unlikely to have agreed basic facts which means LE and the prosecution will have to present every shred of evidence to a point where the jury can find no reasonable doubt.

Just my speculation. Let's wait and see. JMO MOO

 

[Alyce]

From the info in Jennie's link above

John Ryder ( CMs KC )

John Ryder KC - 6KBW

Acknowledged by his peers as an advocate of outstanding ability and superb tactical skill, John Ryder KC has consistently been ranked by Chambers and Partners directory as a leading silk. He is described in Chambers and Partners 2013 as "very stylish, adaptable and charming, he has everything...

6kbw.com

and if anyone wants to see him in action, this is an interesting watch

The Trial: A Murder in the Family | Channel 4

The Trial: A Murder in the Family is a brand new, ground-breaking five-part series to be stripped across one week on Channel 4

www.channel4.com

 

[Alyce]

MGs KC

John Femi-Ola KC - 3TG Barristers Chambers

John Femi-Ola KC is a highly regarded criminal silk with a practice centred (though not exclusively) at the Central Criminal Court.

www.3tg.co.uk

 

[Telltale]

I have to say I am very curious to know what the defence argument is going to be.

I feel like for Marten her best line of defense would be a domestically violent relationship extreme coercive control and fragile mental health etc, but it doesn't really seem like the two of them have turned on eachother.

It's going to be interesting, since officially they were just 'missing' as far as it's known, they weren't committing any crime by dodging the police. If Gordon was violating any sort of patrol or licensing conditions, it wasn't made public. I also don't think social services were aware that the baby was on the way, so there wasn't any court order in place to remove the child.

Of course camping midwinter with a newborn you gave birth to in a car is fairly clear neglect, but it's going to narrow down the scope of the offences quite a lot. The gritty details about the line between neglect and parental autonomy will be interesting.

 

[Teeniesmum]

I have to say I am very curious to know what the defence argument is going to be.

I feel like for Marten her best line of defense would be a domestically violent relationship extreme coercive control and fragile mental health etc, but it doesn't really seem like the two of them have turned on eachother.

It's going to be interesting, since officially they were just 'missing' as far as it's known, they weren't committing any crime by dodging the police. If Gordon was violating any sort of patrol or licensing conditions, it wasn't made public. I also don't think social services were aware that the baby was on the way, so there wasn't any court order in place to remove the child.

Of course camping midwinter with a newborn you gave birth to in a car is fairly clear neglect, but it's going to narrow down the scope of the offences quite a lot. The gritty details about the line between neglect and parental autonomy will be interesting.

This article here from the Daily Mail references "Flouting Sex Offenders Law" but there is no substance to this in the article, but tbf it's the daily mail Constance Marten's lover accused of killing baby refuses court hearing
Edited to Add I know he was convicted in the US and is a registered sex offender, but when he moved back to the UK I don't know if he was added to the UK register.

 

[Alyce]

This article here from the Daily Mail references "Flouting Sex Offenders Law" but there is no substance to this in the article, but tbf it's the daily mail Constance Marten's lover accused of killing baby refuses court hearing
Edited to Add I know he was convicted in the US and is a registered sex offender, but when he moved back to the UK I don't know if he was added to the UK register.

he was released and deported back to the UK half way through his US sentence so he should have been put onto the register here.

 

[Alyce]

Four to six weeks doesn't sound long.

I guess it's all pretty straightforward in legal terms? even though it makes my mind boggle.

Also quite surprisingly quick in terms of the fact that it seems the defendants aren't co-operative type of people, have probably disputed and conflicted one another and also denied everything, are unlikely to have agreed basic facts which means LE and the prosecution will have to present every shred of evidence to a point where the jury can find no reasonable doubt.

Just my speculation. Let's wait and see. JMO MOO

I think the time estimate is doable, even allowing that there are 2 defendants and they are, seemingly, not the easiest to deal with.

7 days for the Prosecution
2-3 days for each of the accused
3 days summing up, Closings and Judge’s final directions

that’s just over 3 weeks, assuming Court sits every day, Monday to Friday.
Add in an allowance for delays and possibly a day or two when the court is not sitting, takes it up to the 4 week point.

I dont anticipate a long Jury deliberation ( although I’m not always right on timings )


all MOO of course

 

[Alyce]

Central Criminal Court​	5​	T20237104​	constance marten mark alton gordon​
Details: - No Information To Display -

www.thelawpages.com