UK - Constance Marten & Mark Gordon charged, Newborn (found deceased), Bolton Greater Manchester, 5 Jan 2023 #4

[JTT]

Does anyone know if MG was either working somewhere or eligible for and claiming state benefits and / or disability benefits prior to fleeing? Or was he unofficially residing in the UK? Was he a wanted man aside from the 'failure to register' case?

He wasn't a wanted man. There have been no reports of him committing any offences or possibly having committed any in between the rape which was ~35 years ago and the offences he's currently charged with. The police said they didn't want either of them for any offence.

It has been suggested this may have been tactical by the police, but I'm interpreting "wanted" as meaning on a public wanted list.

 

[GreekGal]

Ah, thank you! That makes sense. Same thing is listed for today. I wonder what the Contempt of Court ref is? The refusal of MG to attend Bromley Magistrates court doesn't involve CM.

Hi,
Can you tell me which website this is available on please? I've checked LawPages listing for today but I see no mention of their names or the case ref on there. TIA

 

[JTT]

I am not sure about the protocol of this, but I think the public and press are not allowed in court while the jury are not sitting? But the barristers and judges sort out how to handle various complexities of the case? Though I have been in the public gallery when the judge had conversations with the barristers - I can't remember if the defendant was present or not.

Either side can ask for legal argument to be conducted in the absence of the jury, but the defendant normally remains in court to hear it (and indeed is obliged to, since he's in the dock and not allowed to leave it).

 

[bobbymkii]

Hi,
Can you tell me which website this is available on please? I've checked LawPages listing for today but I see no mention of their names or the case ref on there. TIA

CourtServe

Daily lists from the Crown, County & Family Courts, RCJ and Employment Tribunals for Barristers Chambers, Solicitors & Law firms

www.courtserve.net

 

[JTT]

Ah, thank you! That makes sense. Same thing is listed for today. I wonder what the Contempt of Court ref is? The refusal of MG to attend Bromley Magistrates court doesn't involve CM.

Could be in connection with an action or alleged action by someone other than the defendants, e.g. a member of the media. (Utter speculation.)

 

[JTT]

The Daily Mail podcast on the trial:

Introducing The Trial: Constance Marten & Mark Gordon | The Trial: Brianna Ghey

Listen to Introducing The Trial: Constance Marten & Mark Gordon from The Trial: Brianna Ghey. Season 4 of The Trial begins Wednesday January 24th.Constance Marten & Mark Gordon went on the run in January 2023, along with their daughter Victoria, born just a few days before.A huge manhunt...

shows.acast.com

"The Trial: Brianna Ghey
Introducing The Trial: Constance Marten & Mark Gordon
Monday, January 22, 2024
Season 4 of The Trial begins Wednesday January 24th."

We shall see.........

 

[bobbymkii]

Could be in connection with an action or alleged action by someone other than the defendants, e.g. a member of the media. (Utter speculation.)

It is very tempting to speculate when we're still waiting for the trial to open properly. We don't have to wait much longer though! This time tomorrow we should know a lot more about the case.

 

[JTT]

From Courtserve:

"

Daily Courtroom List for Tuesday 23 January 2024​

FINAL 2​

Warning - There are cases within this court list with reporting restrictions.
Any breach of reporting restrictions is punishable by sanctions up to and including imprisonment."

^ That's at the top of the page and not linked to any specific case.

And then for the MG and CM case:

"DTA, Order made under Contempt of Court Act 1981".

Perhaps there will be no media reports at all until the verdict.

Is it absolutely certain that the jurors have been sworn in?

 

[CaptainNancy]

From Courtserve:

"

Daily Courtroom List for Tuesday 23 January 2024​

FINAL 2​

Warning - There are cases within this court list with reporting restrictions.
Any breach of reporting restrictions is punishable by sanctions up to and including imprisonment."

^ That's at the top of the page and not linked to any specific case.

And then for the MG and CM case:

"DTA, Order made under Contempt of Court Act 1981".

Perhaps there will be no media reports at all until the verdict.

Is it absolutely certain that the jurors have been sworn in?

The quote at the top applies to the whole Central Criminal Court list - in which there are trials covered by the Youth Justice act and trials where complainants are given anonymity under the sexual offences act. These are subject to reporting restrictions.

 

[CaptainNancy]

OK, a little Googling suggests that the requirement to attend has been made a demand of the court and if the defendants do not comply they will be in Contempt - a serious crime. This has possibly been done to prevent any 'bad back' type shenanigans.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

The police said during the hunt that neither of them was wanted for any criminal offence. The involvement of literally hundreds of police in the manhunt has yet to be explained. That number was reported long before there were reports of scouring the Sussex countryside and looking for where the baby might be while they were in custody.

FWIW they have not been charged with breaking and entering.

The SS have a procedure for putting out a port alert when a woman who is classed as unfit to raise children she hasn't borne yet goes off the radar, believed pregnant. I'm not aware of any other country in the world that puts any women in this category, or that allows a woman who has just given birth to spend 20 minutes with her baby before they take the baby away, or that has anywhere near the rate of forced adoptions there is in Britain.

This is total speculation, but I won't be surprised if there has been MAJOR friction between the police and the SS in this case, nor if this is still continuing, nor if it leads to a "this must never happen again" type of enquiry - more likely to be pushed for by the police than by the SS. (Whether anything good will come out of it is another matter.)

My sense of this is that the police, media reports, and CM's mother's plea were all designed to lure the couple back in order to get CM and the (unborn) baby safe.

IMO, they must have known enough about her that she was due to give birth soon, even if the baby did come prematurely (which we don't know), and her family were putting sufficient and effective pressure on the police (and media) to get them to act.

Of course the police would say nobody is wanted for any crime as they'd be waiting to interview the couple before defining which crimes to charge them with, if at all.

JMO MOO

 

[Alyce]

From Courtserve:

"

Daily Courtroom List for Tuesday 23 January 2024​

FINAL 2​

Warning - There are cases within this court list with reporting restrictions.
Any breach of reporting restrictions is punishable by sanctions up to and including imprisonment."

^ That's at the top of the page and not linked to any specific case.

And then for the MG and CM case:

"DTA, Order made under Contempt of Court Act 1981".

Perhaps there will be no media reports at all until the verdict.

Is it absolutely certain that the jurors have been sworn in?

All I can see is that they have been selected ( 15 atm ). I presume they will be sworn in tomorrow when the trial proper begins.

 

[JTT]

My sense of this is that the police, media reports, and CM's mother's plea were all designed to lure the couple back in order to get CM and the (unborn) baby safe.

IMO, they must have known enough about her that she was due to give birth soon, even if the baby did come prematurely (which we don't know), and her family were putting sufficient and effective pressure on the police (and media) to get them to act.

Of course the police would say nobody is wanted for any crime as they'd be waiting to interview the couple before defining which crimes to charge them with, if at all.

JMO MOO

AFAIK the first reports that they were missing and the first pleas for them to come forward came after the discovery of the placenta.

My feeling (total speculation) is that some senior police officers may be very angry about how others have expected or caused them to act in this case. I wonder how often it occurs that the SS say let's have a port alert and the police ask what the reason is and then say no. And in this case it may not have been just a port alert but the working time of literally hundreds of officers. The police may not be too positive about the media coverage either.

In other news...tomorrow's court list for the Old Bailey is up and the trial is listed to resume at 10am tomorrow (24 Jan).

 

[JTT]

All I can see is that they have been selected ( 15 atm ). I presume they will be sworn in tomorrow when the trial proper begins.

That's what I was thinking too. There are a couple of websites where people say the jurors have been sworn in, but I'm not convinced they know the difference between selection and being sworn in.

Assuming they haven't been sworn in, we therefore have to say "if" there is a verdict...

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

AFAIK the first reports that they were missing and the first pleas for them to come forward came after the discovery of the placenta.

My feeling (total speculation) is that some senior police officers may be very angry about how others have expected or caused them to act in this case. I wonder how often it occurs that the SS say let's have a port alert and the police ask what the reason is and then say no. And in this case it may not have been just a port alert but the working time of literally hundreds of officers. The police may not be too positive about the media coverage either.

In other news...tomorrow's court list for the Old Bailey is up and the trial is listed to resume at 10am tomorrow (24 Jan).

Oh yes you're right it was only for the fact that the placenta was found in the car they knew a baby was born. IMO only CM's family would care so much about her, everyone else's efforts were on behalf of that newborn.

Let's see who turns up to court tomorrow.

Something I can't understand is how if they loved the child and wanted a fair chance at raising her, how they could have then left her the way they did. Obviously we don't know the full story and we have no idea what they were thinking and feeling but personally, I can't imagine not making a little grave and having a little ceremony of sorts. Whole thing is too distressing for words to even think about.

JMO MOO

 

[bobbymkii]

Live updates feed:

Recap: Trial of Constance Marten and Mark Gordon adjourned to tomorrow

Constance Marten and Mark Gordon to face trial.

www.theargus.co.uk

 

[Alyce]

From the link above...


Jurors to be sworn in

 

[Alyce]

I think it's worth posting the charges as a reminder ( feels like such a long time waiting for this trial )

What are they charged with?​

Gross Negligence Manslaughter of their baby daughter Victoria

Perverting the Course of Justice

Concealing the Birth of a Child

Child Cruelty

Causing or Allowing the Death of a Child

Recap: Trial of Constance Marten and Mark Gordon adjourned to tomorrow

Constance Marten and Mark Gordon to face trial.

www.theargus.co.uk

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

Are they not charged with all the stuff that goes after a death? IANAL but isn't things like 'failing to report a death' and 'preventing a decent funeral' etc?

Just curious.

JMO MOO

 

[Alyce]

Are they not charged with all the stuff that goes after a death? IANAL but isn't things like 'failing to report a death' and 'preventing a decent funeral' etc?

Just curious.

JMO MOO

I would have expected that too