UK - Constance Marten & Mark Gordon charged, Newborn (found deceased), Bolton Greater Manchester, 5 Jan 2023 #4

[JTT]

The prosecution have begun their opening speech. Tom Little is really giving it some, by the sound of it:

Recap: Constance Marten and Mark Gordon trial at the Old Bailey

Live updates from the trial of Constance Marten and Mark Gordon accused of gross negligence manslaughter

www.theargus.co.uk

"He said the case "involves the entirely avoidable death of a young baby".

He added: “A young baby girl who would still be alive if it was not for the reckless, utterly selfish, callous cruel, arrogant and ultimately grossly negligent conduct of these two defendants.

"They put their view of life before the life of a little baby girl."

"Their selfish desire to keep their baby girl led inexorably to the death of that very baby.

"They went and remained on the run. Giving birth to the baby on the run. Not seeking any medical assistance before, during or after birth.

"Not registering the birth but moving from location to location.

"When the hunt by the authorities to find them, which became national front page news almost exactly a year ago, intensified so their desperate selfishness increased and so did the risks and the dangers to the baby."

Mr Little has added that the body of Marten and Gordon's baby was left "as if it was refuse".

He said: "After the baby had died the defendants did not hand themselves in but instead remained off-grid and trying to hide, leaving the body of their dead baby in a shopping bag covered in rubbish, as if she was refuse, and left in a disused shed."

What's this "view of life" to which he refers? These are selected extracts, of course, but the crown will surely need to bring evidence as to the time and physical causes of death if they are to prove manslaughter.

Edit: 12.05pm update from the Argus:

"Marten became pregnant in early 2022 but this was concealed from everyone, Mr Little continues.

The precise date the baby was born and died is "known only to the defendants". "

Again, this is an extract and it may not be representative. But if they can't show for sure that the baby died before the arrests, the defence are going to be all over them on the manslaughter charge. (Speculation.)

I wonder how he knows what is (not was) known to the defendants.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

Re: 'their view of life'

I suspect the prosecution are trying to allege that the defendants don't hold the sanctity of life with the same regard as an average human being -or- that they have extremely devout or unusual spiritual / religious views. (For example 'it's in god's hands and not the business of the state or medicine -or- that they have been imbued with some form of cult dogma)

That is pure speculation and I have no grounds to believe this about CM or MG, it's just a possible reason IMO.

 

[Alyce]

Re: 'their view of life'

I suspect the prosecution are trying to allege that the defendants don't hold the sanctity of life with the same regard as an average human being -or- that they have extremely devout or unusual spiritual / religious views. (For example 'it's in god's hands and not the business of the state or medicine -or- that they have been imbued with some form of cult dogma)

That is pure speculation and I have no grounds to believe this about CM or MG, it's just a possible reason IMO.

Or perhaps - based on this line from the Prosecution

Their selfish desire to keep their baby girl


He means that they were determined to keep the child, even if they had to live in difficult conditions ( which is a bit of an understatement I know ! )


moo of course

 

[bobbymkii]

"Gordon is sitting in the dock, and jurors have been told Marten is not going to be present for Thursday's court proceedings, but is aware of the details in the prosecuting opening."

Aristocrat and boyfriend 'carried baby around in Lidl bag in fatal runaway bid'

Constance Marten and Mark Gordon were dubbed 'arrogant' and 'selfish' as their manslaughter trial began

www.standard.co.uk

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

Thanks for this. "Total Crime's" choice of extracts lend the prosecutor's opening speech a different flavour from Patrick Barlow's at the Argos.

So the crown will seek to show that Victoria died after her parents failed to provide her with warmth, shelter, and food.

Also this is the first time we have heard that Victoria was their fifth child and the other four were all taken into care.

I wonder what MG attended the police station for on 19 December 2022. Do registered sex offenders have to attend a particular police station at every check-in, or are they free to go to any police station that's convenient for them?

IANAL. As a registered sex offender with such an ancient crime, he would not be required to check in at police stations unless possibly to notify residing in a new area IMO.

Usually, people have to check in at police stations if they are on bail in the community pending a future court hearing -or- are out on early release following serving a sentence in custody -or- are out on probationary terms (even then it's usually an ankle tag and check in with a probation officer, not a police station). We have seen no evidence that MG was recently released from being on remand or in custody.

OR the police had notified him they wish to speak to him on an issue and please attend a station.
OR he had gone into a station to discuss something of his own volition.
OR he was happenstance in a police station with another person and his details were noted.
OR he was taken into custody following some sort of incident but released with no charge.

 

[JTT]

Argus:

"Mr Little has now told the jury that Marten and Gordon's baby was transferred into a Lidl "bag for life".

He said: "It would appear that, at this time, the baby was transferred and carried in a Lidl 'bag for life' where it would appear it spent much of its life before it died.

"It would have been plain to the defendants, you must have thought, that this was an utterly inappropriate way to care for any child and remember at all times in this case the time of year and the weather conditions." "
...
"Judge Lucraft has reminded the jury that this is 'not the evidence' and that this will be heard at a later date."

 

[Alyce]

From JTT's link above


the baby was transferred and carried in a Lidl 'bag for life' where it would appear it spent much of its life before it died.

 

[JennieM]

I have no sympathy for them. That little girl did not deserve any of this. She deserved warmth and comfort and a good life. I hope they truly pay for what they did to her.

 

[JTT]

Extracts from the prosecutor's opening speech in the Standard (BBM):

""They put their relationship and their view of life before the life of a little baby girl," he said"

“Rather than act in the obvious best interests of a vulnerable baby and one that they should have cared for and looked after, they decided instead that they knew best”, said the prosecutor."

"They decided that they knew better than anyone else."

"No matter who they were. They decided to ignore the advice that they had previously been given."

"Mr Little said Marten and Gordon had already had four children taken off them by authorities, and when she fell pregnant in early 2022 with their fifth child they "knew the child would be taken into care".


So they concealed the existence of the pregnancy from their family, friends, and authorities such as midwives and healthcare professionals, it is said.
"Their selfish desire to keep their baby girl led inexorably to the death of that very baby," said Mr Little."

If I were on the jury and those extracts are representative I would want to know the reasons why the other four children were taken into care and how old they were.

The reasons may not have been the same for all four. E.g. (total speculation) perhaps no. 1 was taken at age 2 after having been treated with cruelty, and then nos. 2-4 were taken 10 minutes after birth. Or the course of events could have been totally different from that, but if trying the case I would especially want to know whether any had been taken as newborns, and whether there had been any extended battles.

 

[Nikynoo]

Extracts from the prosecutor's opening speech in the Standard (BBM):

""They put their relationship and their view of life before the life of a little baby girl," he said"

“Rather than act in the obvious best interests of a vulnerable baby and one that they should have cared for and looked after, they decided instead that they knew best”, said the prosecutor."

"They decided that they knew better than anyone else."

"No matter who they were. They decided to ignore the advice that they had previously been given."

"Mr Little said Marten and Gordon had already had four children taken off them by authorities, and when she fell pregnant in early 2022 with their fifth child they "knew the child would be taken into care".


So they concealed the existence of the pregnancy from their family, friends, and authorities such as midwives and healthcare professionals, it is said.
"Their selfish desire to keep their baby girl led inexorably to the death of that very baby," said Mr Little."

If I were on the jury and those extracts are representative I would want to know the reasons why the other four children were taken into care and how old they were.

The reasons may not have been the same for all four. E.g. (total speculation) perhaps no. 1 was taken at age 2 after having been treated with cruelty, and then nos. 2-4 were taken 10 minutes after birth. Or the course of events could have been totally different from that, but if trying the case I would especially want to know whether any had been taken as newborns, and whether there had been any extended

Did the family step in to care for the children?

 

[JennieM]

Constance Marten trial: Reckless conduct led to baby's death, court told

Constance Marten trial: Baby kept in Lidl bag before being dumped, court told

Constance Marten and her partner Mark Gordon are on trial for the manslaughter of their newborn baby.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[JennieM]

The court heard the baby was found inside a shopping bag covered in rubbish "as if she was refuse".

The pair deny the charges.

Constance Marten trial: Baby kept in Lidl bag before being dumped, court told

Constance Marten and her partner Mark Gordon are on trial for the manslaughter of their newborn baby.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Nikynoo]

From JTT's link above


the baby was transferred and carried in a Lidl 'bag for life' where it would appear it spent much of its life before it died.

I wonder whether the baby had died and thats why it was transferred to the bag - or was it because they would have been more obvious with a pushcair (which reportedly they had only just bought)?

 

[JennieM]

'Cruel and arrogant' aristocrat Constance Marten and her lover 'left their baby girl's body in a shed like refuse' after she died 'while they were on the run from authorities and living in a tent in freezing conditions without enough food or clothing'

Constance Marten and her lover 'caused death of their baby girl'

Constance Marten and Mark Gordon are accused at the Old Bailey in London of fleeing across the country in a 'desperately selfish' bid to prevent their fifth child being taken away from them.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

I wonder whether the baby had died and thats why it was transferred to the bag - or was it because they would have been more obvious with a pushcair (which reportedly they had only just bought)?

I'm gonna say the words "much of it's life before it died" are heavy hitting and no barrister would speak them unless there is substantial evidence. A journalist should think twice before reporting something that heavy hitting unless substantiated.

I wish they would say 'her' life.

JMO MOO

 

[Nikynoo]

I'm gonna say the words "much of it's life before it died" are heavy hitting and no barrister would speak them unless there is substantial evidence. A journalist should think twice before reporting something that heavy hitting unless substantiated.

I wish they would say 'her' life.

JMO MOO

We shall see. To substantiate that surely they would need to know when she died and I haven’t seen anything yet that confirms when.

 

[dotr]

Any chance that CM could have become, or is pregnant again in between the birth of the dec. baby and her arrest?
speculation.

 

[Alyce]

I'm gonna say the words "much of it's life before it died" are heavy hitting and no barrister would speak them unless there is substantial evidence. A journalist should think twice before reporting something that heavy hitting unless substantiated.

I wish they would say 'her' life.

JMO MOO

If this is correct - and is not just best interpretation by the Prosecution - it sounds horrendous. Poor Victoria.




The jury have now been showed footage of Marten and Gordon walking through Newhaven carrying multiple bags of possessions including the Lidl bag for life.

The prosecution argues that their baby was in the bag for life.

Recap: Constance Marten and Mark Gordon trial at the Old Bailey

Live updates from the trial of Constance Marten and Mark Gordon accused of gross negligence manslaughter

www.theargus.co.uk

 

[irnbru]

If she birthed a baby on or around 28 December and was arrested on 27 February it is possible but very unlikely

(edit- I can't seem to quote dotr's post above asking whether CM could have become pregnant again)

 

[Lolabear]

Any chance that CM could have become, or is pregnant again in between the birth of the dec. baby and her arrest?
speculation.

If she had she'd of given birth by now