UK - Constance Marten & Mark Gordon charged, Newborn (found deceased), Bolton Greater Manchester, 5 Jan 2023 #6

[Nikynoo]

I am beginning to think that neither Marten or Gordon will appear in the witness stand. That maybe why the court thinks that the case will still finish on 8 March. I dont see what either have got to gain by testifying, they are both awkward and damaged people who will not come across well in court is they behaved as they did in police interviews. I am thinking that their Defence teams will persuade them not to give evidence.

One would hope so, but I suspect that both are so entrenched in their belief system, they would not pass on the opportunity to share them. It will take a very strong hand by the defence to ensure they stay focussed. Cross examination could be quite interesting, unless what they have to say is is out there, that the prosecution dont bother. I do hope that what they have to say is reported accurately and in full.

 

[jackal67]

Marten said that shae thought if they posed as travellers they would be given social housing

In what world did they need social housing? This is the woman with access to all the funds she wanted!

I thought travellers didnt like living in houses??

 

[jackal67]

RBBM
This made me think about the visits the Health Visitors make to homes 10 days after a baby is born and the midwife has signed off on mum and baby (in UK). The midwives and health visitor repeat several warnings, including information about how to place the baby to sleep and falling asleep with the baby. It is part of their standard advice, along with not leaving the baby alone in the bath, not leaving the baby with a propped up bottle and so on and so forth.
They don't just give this advice to certain people who they are concerned about, everyone gets this.

It was advice given by social services . They were under their supervision following the birth of their first child who they had been living in a tent in Wales with. Not midwife or health visitor

 

[Rolypolyoly]

I thought travellers didnt like living in houses??

Lots of travellers live in houses now.

 

[Baby baby Jane]

Marten said that shae thought if they posed as travellers they would be given social housing

In what world did they need social housing? This is the woman with access to all the funds she wanted!

They may have been finding it difficult to find housing without references - I had read that they trashed previous rentals. Landlords will check references.
Plus, in social housing, they would have more money for other “necessities”

 

[Rolypolyoly]

They may have been finding it difficult to find housing without references - I had read that they trashed previous rentals. Landlords will check references.
Plus, in social housing, they would have more money for other “necessities”

They probably wouldn't have qualified for social housing because of her trust fund income. There is an income level attached to social housing now because its so scarce.

 

[Baby baby Jane]

They probably wouldn't have qualified for social housing because of her trust fund income. There is an income level attached to social housing now because it’s so scarce.

I should have referenced that this social housing incident was when CM pretending to be Irish Traveller …

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

I thought travellers didnt like living in houses??

There are many settled travellers of all sorts of Romany or Irish or other gypsy backgrounds who live in houses. They are often glad to be able to get a school place for children and to be able to register with a GP etc. For social housing they would need to meet certain criteria, the same as anyone else.

However, I think what CM was hoping for was to be treated with certain accommodations and adaptations that are made for travellers now that they are legally defined as having their own distinctn racial / ethnic needs and protected characteristics.

I would suggest that attempting to exploit resources that may (or may not) be available to certain groups of people with legally enshrined and protected characteristics when you are not of that ethnic background is dishonest, deceptive, reeking of entitlement and any home acquired would by default be depriving the family who did genuinely need it.

JMO MOO, I hope to be proven mistaken and that this was not her intention.

 

[Amaz0nia]

You're entitled to your opinion and so is everyone else. To refuse to tell detectives where a (as it turned out, dead) tiny baby is, IMO is reprehensible whatever performance or distraction tactic was used.

I don't believe he answered any questions regarding the location of the baby and this went on for a sustained period of time. I personally do not agree that he 'answered questions later', that is your opinion stated as fact which is not actually true or evidenced, therefore a distortion. He did answer some questions, many very evasively, and only after a) the body had been located and b) he'd been informed of what CM had already stated.

The best predictor of future behaviour is past behaviour. Therefore IMO anyone who speculates that MG would do similar on the stand is simply using straightforward logic. If you have a different idea, that's your personal take on it. The reality is none of us know how he will behave on the stand, if he takes it.

JMO MOO

Excellent post-I think you sum up what 99% of us are thinking. MG did not answer any questions for many many hours later, despite being asked in a polite manner, he also saw a nurse for his legs who found nothing wrong. Classic stalling tactics indeed. Its inexcusable asking for mayo when your baby cannot be located…

 

[Amaz0nia]

There are many settled travellers of all sorts of Romany or Irish or other gypsy backgrounds who live in houses. They are often glad to be able to get a school place for children and to be able to register with a GP etc. For social housing they would need to meet certain criteria, the same as anyone else.

However, I think what CM was hoping for was to be treated with certain accommodations and adaptations that are made for travellers now that they are legally defined as having their own distinctn racial / ethnic needs and protected characteristics.

I would suggest that attempting to exploit resources that may (or may not) be available to certain groups of people with legally enshrined and protected characteristics when you are not of that ethnic background is dishonest, deceptive, reeking of entitlement and any home acquired would by default be depriving the family who did genuinely need it.

JMO MOO, I hope to be proven mistaken and that this was not her intention.

Rachel Dolezal springs to mind…

Rachel Dolezal - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[GreekGal]

Here's the link for today's live feed. Let's see what MG has to say...if he says anything at all.

Updates as trial of Constance Marten and Mark Gordon continues

Live updates as the trial of Constance Marten and Mark Gordon continues.

www.theargus.co.uk

 

[JennieM]

11:09am

Jury told Gordon will not be giving evidence​

John Femi-Ola, defending Mark Gordon, told the court he is not calling the defendant to give evidence.

Judge Mark Lucraft, the recorder of London, asked Mr Femi-Ola if he has informed Gordon that the trial is now at the stage where he can give evidence.

Mr Femi-Ola confirmed he had.

Updates as trial of Constance Marten and Mark Gordon continues

Live updates as the trial of Constance Marten and Mark Gordon continues.

www.theargus.co.uk

 

[Alyce]

Tristan is always good for reports - worth a follow if he's in court

 

[Alyce]

Central Criminal Court​	5​	T20237104​	constance marten mark alton gordon​
Details: Trial (Part Heard) - Resume - 10:59 Trial (Part Heard) - Legal Submissions - 11:07

thelawpages.com

 

[InstantCoffee]

So do we think this is MGs decision - or his Briefs'?!

 

[Nikynoo]

So do we think this is MGs decision - or his Briefs'?!

Probably persuaded him that it was not a good idea. Is he on his own today?

 

[Parker Knoll]

Not giving evidence now …. Quelle surprise!
JMO obviously !

 

[InstantCoffee]

Probably persuaded him that it was not a good idea. Is he on his own today?

The pic says it's from Jan 25th showing him seated alone... so not sure!

 

[Alyce]

So do we think this is MGs decision - or his Briefs'?!

Ultimately it is always the client's choice. The KC can advise and probably did, but he can't decide for his client.

 

[Rolypolyoly]

So do we think this is MGs decision - or his Briefs'?!

I would think his Brief strongly advised against it but if MG had wanted to, the Brief couldn't stop him.