UK - Constance Marten & Mark Gordon & Newborn (found deceased), Bolton Greater Manchester, 5 Jan 2023 #2 *Arrest*

[Maltesepuppy]

Even if the poor baby was no longer alive at the time of their arrest, it's utterly disgraceful they chose to leave it in the woods like that. Rest in peace little baby, you deserved so much better.

Definitely. They kept quiet to protect themselves.

 

[infinit]

Is the word 'remains' which was used by the police usually used for someone who has been dead a while?

The definition of human remains is simply a dead body or part of one. But my purely subjective view is yeah, it tends to be used more often when it has been a while or something has been done to the body. Not sure they would refer to a baby as a "body" either so I don't really know what's the appropriate wording tbh.

JMO.

 

[irnbru]

This is so incredibly sad.

Anyone reading this who has particular reason to find this story painful, my heart goes out to you. I hope you are surrounded by love right now.

 

[QB2022]

Wouldn’t there also be an improper disposal (I’m sorry for the awful words to describe it) charge also? Or preventing the lawful burial/cremation?

Yes. Its all levels of illegal

 

[JennieM]

What we learned from the police statement​

If you need a recap, this is what we have been told by police this evening:

• Officers discovered a baby's remains in a wooded area this afternoon, after three days of searching for the missing child of Constance Marten and Mark Gordon
• The body was found near to where Marten and Gordon were arrested on Monday evening in the Fiveways area of Brighton
• Police have not confirmed the baby is theirs and said a post-mortem examination would take place
• The area where the body was found is being treated as a crime scene
• Det Supt Lewis Basford of the Met Police said it is "the news that we did not want to hear". He added that police would "do everything we can" to find out what had happened
• He asked that members of the public refrain from speculation
• Marten and Gordon remain in custody after a 36-hour detention extension was granted by Brighton Magistrates' Court
• Ch Supt James Collis of Sussex Police said he sent his "heartfelt condolences" following the outcome of the search
• He added that the conclusion of the search would be "heartbreaking for the local community", and thanked "the public, the huge number of people who came forward with information and those that have volunteered to assist with the searches"

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-64817611

 

[Sarahlou]

If they didn't want the cause of death known they'd have good reason to keep quiet as long as possible.
I really hope it's not too late to determine how the poor baby died.

 

[ayrshireguy]

I hate the term “remains”. My mind goes into overdrive. Whenever it’s used in a case I wonder why they don’t use the term body instead. Awful awful awful. I’m in tears here. I think CM and MG are likely to get a very rough ride in prison from fellow inmates

Possibly because the body is badly damaged or decomposed.

 

[JennieM]

Conclusion of search 'heartbreaking to the community'​

Ch Supt James Collis ends by saying he sends his "heartfelt condolences" to the wider family of the baby following the outcome of the search.
He says he knows this evening's news will be "heartbreaking for the local community" and all those involved in the search operation.
And he thanks the public again, including the person who gave the information leading to the arrests of Marten and Gordon, as well as "the huge number of people who came forward with information and those that have volunteered to assist with the searches".
"We continue to support the Metropolitan Police as they conduct their investigation and also the wider community as we all come to terms with this tragedy," he says.
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Police granted more time to question parents Marten and Gordon​

Det Supt Lewis Basford confirms that Constance Marten and Mark Gordon remain in police custody.
He said: "An application for an extension of their detention for a further 36 hours was sought and granted by Brighton Magistrates' Court."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-64817611

 

[desertcat]

This is heartbreaking.
Ultimately the blame rests with the parents in the most part. I still believe it is possible to be both perpetrator and victim.
It's totally futile but I just wonder if the scale of reporting and media frenzy prompted unstable people to make very dangerous choices. Is there any way a more subtle search with hospital/authority alerts might have given the poor little child a better chance. Would they have picked better shelter? All MOO.

 

[QB2022]

I wonder how quickly a post mortem will be complete. Will be interesting to see what they end up charged with.

She will never be in a general population prison, she won't be safe

 

[Doughy]

Possibly because the body is badly damaged or decomposed.

As awful as it sounds I hope this is the case. I can't bare to think it took too long to find the baby once the couple had been arrested.

 

[Lucy6226]

I'll entertain you for a second and consider this was potentially a SIDS.

Which loving parents would carry the corpse of their precious baby around and leave it ON THEIR OWN in the woods like some sort of discarded animal?

I think it's safe to say, the sad predicament of this baby is as a DIRECT result of its parents actions.

We don't know that they carried the baby's body around though do we? We don't know if the baby was discarded or buried in a marked grave in a 'respectful' manner. They wouldn't have thought about the right/legal options or they wouldn't have been in the situation they were in the first place!

Wouldn’t there also be an improper disposal (I’m sorry for the awful words to describe it) charge also? Or preventing the lawful burial/cremation?

Yeah there will be a long list of charges I suspect even if deemed natural causes imo

 

[infinit]

This is heartbreaking.
Ultimately the blame rests with the parents in the most part. I still believe it is possible to be both perpetrator and victim.
It's totally futile but I just wonder if the scale of reporting and media frenzy prompted unstable people to make very dangerous choices. Is there any way a more subtle search with hospital/authority alerts might have given the poor little child a better chance. Would they have picked better shelter? All MOO.

The Police put out the appeals, they clearly wanted it to be in the media to aid in getting sightings. Some of the stuff the rags dug up was unfortunate, but there was clearly only one victim here and they are dead.

JMO.

 

[Doughy]

I wonder how quickly a post mortem will be complete. Will be interesting to see what they end up charged with.

She will never be in a general population prison, she won't be safe

Indeed. An upper class 'child endangerer' wouldn't last 2 minutes in general.

 

[Sally4x]

Absolutely horrific. R.I.P. little one.

 

[Tyzer]

Sadly this is the outcome that we all feared, I did think that posters who were saying maybe a friend or someone was looking after the baby were reaching.

Rest in peace little one.

 

[Telltale]

I think this case will cause a lot of public anger. Hopefully it night serve as a catalyst against the SS are always evil rhetoric.

Nah it will, (despite one of the most extensive and and expensive missing persons investigations in recent years) somehow still end up being the Police and Social Services fault.

You know - if only they had let them be, they would have been fine and made totally safe rational parents, the Police DROVE them to camp in the woods until their baby died of exposure.

Or - Why didn't Police TELL us that the parents might be a danger to their child? How was the public to know that dragging a newborn around in a tent in the middle of winter and neglecting it's medical welfare might lead to this outcome?

 

[rightsaidfred]

It's such terribly sad news.

The use of the term "remains" does suggest that the baby died some time ago. It isn't warm at the moment, so if the decomposition is significant it would suggest the baby died well before the arrest.

This would also fit with CM and MG not asking for baby products at the food bank.

We don't know where the body was found; it's quite possible that they buried the baby themselves in the most respectful manner they could manage under the circumstances, in the immediate vicinity of the camp.

 

[Maltesepuppy]

This is heartbreaking.
Ultimately the blame rests with the parents in the most part. I still believe it is possible to be both perpetrator and victim.
It's totally futile but I just wonder if the scale of reporting and media frenzy prompted unstable people to make very dangerous choices. Is there any way a more subtle search with hospital/authority alerts might have given the poor little child a better chance. Would they have picked better shelter? All MOO.

I believe that the blame rests 100% with the "parents" in this case. They concealed the pregnancy. How could anyone protect a baby no one knew existed until the placenta was found?
They made dangerous choices when they did not access medical care before birth and abandoned a car on fire on foot before it was even on the media.
<modsnip - OFF LIMITS>
Personally I don't think there was such a media frenzy. Even last week staff at the food bank did not know who they were.
All MOO.

 

[wizardizzo76]

This is heartbreaking.
Ultimately the blame rests with the parents in the most part. I still believe it is possible to be both perpetrator and victim.
It's totally futile but I just wonder if the scale of reporting and media frenzy prompted unstable people to make very dangerous choices. Is there any way a more subtle search with hospital/authority alerts might have given the poor little child a better chance. Would they have picked better shelter? All MOO.

I actually doubt they have had any knowledge of the news or the people saying "keep running" or the outing of MG as a sex offender or any of it. I suspect they haven't idea of the scale of the search for them or even probably the heartfelt messages from family. They have been living in the woods with no power supply. I suspect they have only surfaced when the baby died and probably thought they had been forgotten about or got away with it all which is why they suddenly started using food banks and supermarkets and being less bothered about being spotted. Once they didn't have a baby any longer they probably thought they didn't have to hide.