UK- Costessey, 4 People Found Dead In Home

[Dotta]

If she was at work by 6am (would have to be earlier than that when events started to unfold), and if she is a caretaker, and if her sister was staying with “the husbands family” (not her sisters & brother in law), and, the neighbors haven’t seen the mom recently, I wonder if she had a job somewhere as a live-in caretaker/carer? And, maybe she worked such a job on purpose if she needed time & space away from her husband.

I'm thinking now about money worries.

If it is true that BK stopped working because of some health issues (MH?) then the situation was not good with kids and a big house bills/mortgage(?).

Usually (in my country) if somebody is unable to work because of being ill, the person is treated by a doctor and the salaries are paid.
An employer cannot sack an ill worker.

But I'm not sure of the situation in this family and his employment status.

Money worries/debts might lead to depression and suicidal thoughts in extreme situations.

This poor mother
I just cannot imagine what this woman is going through now.
Terrible case!

JMO

 

[Skigh]

Father found dead missed emergency health assessment weeks earlier

The body of Bartlomiej Kuczynski, girls Jasmin, 12, and Downreuang, seven, and their aunt were found at a property in Costessey, near Norwich, on Friday morning.

www.dailymail.co.uk

The father who was found dead at home with his two young daughters and sister-in-law had missed an emergency mental health assessment weeks earlier after police took him to a hospital following concerns about his wellbeing.

The IOPC is also investigating contact the force had with Mr Kuczynski on December 14 after he was reported missing.

It is now understood officers searched woodland near his semi-detached house before eventually finding him on the Queen’s Hill estate nearby.


Officers are said to have taken him to Norfolk and Norwich University Hospital in Norwich for an assessment but he left the site in Colney unescorted before it was carried out.


Mrs Kuczynska has been left ‘shocked and heartbroken’ by the tragedy, said Ms Wathanakul, who speculated that ‘petite’ and ‘beautiful’ Ms Noon was ‘in the wrong place at the wrong time’ and may have died fighting to ‘protect her nieces’.

Neighbours have also said Mr Kuczynski had been suffering with mental health problems for months and had asked for help, although they didn’t know if he had engaged with mental health services.

 

[Alyce]

dbm

 

[Alyce]

A man who called 999 before his body and three others were found said he was confused and worried about his own mental state, it has been revealed.

The IOPC's regional director Charmaine Arbouin said: "During that call the man expressed concerns for his own mental state saying he was confused. He was advised to seek medical advice and police did not attend.

"At around 7am the force received a call from a dog walker concerned for the welfare of those within the home.

"Officers attended shortly after and, tragically, found the man, a woman and two children dead."

Norwich deaths: Four people found at house are named

Police confirm the identities of all four people who were found deceased at a property near Norwich.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Sarahlou]

A man who called 999 before his body and three others were found said he was confused and worried about his own mental state, it has been revealed.

The IOPC's regional director Charmaine Arbouin said: "During that call the man expressed concerns for his own mental state saying he was confused. He was advised to seek medical advice and police did not attend.

"At around 7am the force received a call from a dog walker concerned for the welfare of those within the home.

"Officers attended shortly after and, tragically, found the man, a woman and two children dead."

Norwich deaths: Four people found at house are named

Police confirm the identities of all four people who were found deceased at a property near Norwich.

www.bbc.co.uk

That's just really really tragic that he was reaching out for help and didn't get it.

 

[Dotta]

Usually,
if a person has employment contract and gets ill,
he/she visits GP/Family doctor to get sickness leave from work in order to get paid while ill.

A GP observing MH issues directs a patient to a psychiatrist or if the symptoms are acute/worrying the patient is put into mental hospital to be diagnosed and helped.

All the time such a person is under care of his/her local GP.

 

[iamshadow21]

Usually,
if a person has employment contract and gets ill,
he/she visits GP to get sickness leave from work in order to get paid while ill.

A GP observing MH issues directs a patient to a psychiatrist or if the symptoms are acute/worrying the patient is put into mental hospital to be diagnosed and helped.

All the time such a person is under care of his/her local GP.

You're laying out a best case scenario where leave and services are immediately and unconditionally available. Which should be what happens, for everyone. The real world situation is not like that.

MOO

 

[Dotta]

You're laying out a best case scenario where leave and services are immediately and unconditionally available. Which should be what happens, for everyone. The real world situation is not like that.

MOO

I'm talking about my country.
About people who get ill.
That how it works here.
Is it the best case scenario?
I suppose so.
But all workers pay health insurance and have the right to be medically treated.
Helped when help is needed.

And, by the way, I live in real world.

 

[iamshadow21]

I'm talking about my country.
About people who get ill.
That how it works here.
Is it the best case scenario?
I suppose so.

But the father, despite being Polish, wasn't living in your country. He was living in the UK, and dealing with the NHS, which has been gradually bled white of resources by governments over the last few decades. Mental health services are especially strained.

MOO

 

[Lucy6226]

Usually,
if a person has employment contract and gets ill,
he/she visits GP/Family doctor to get sickness leave from work in order to get paid while ill.

A GP observing MH issues directs a patient to a psychiatrist or if the symptoms are acute/worrying the patient is put into mental hospital to be diagnosed and helped.

All the time such a person is under care of his/her local GP.

Unfortunately that's not how the NHS works here, yes you'll get referred quickly but waiting lists are 6mths to 18mths in most areas. CBT/Talking therapy is the first step is most cases, which is no use if you're mental state worsens whilst you are waiting for an appointment. Not everyone is lucid enough to know that things are getting worse Although in this case it appears he tried to get help

 

[Lucy6226]

That's just really really tragic that he was reaching out for help and didn't get it.

Especially when the neighbours called an hour later, presumably after hearing/seeing something. That's an hour that police or ambulance could have been getting to him...I know this is hindsight and likely no one could have predicted what would happen next

 

[Dotta]

Especially when the neighbours called an hour later, presumably after hearing/seeing something. That's an hour that police or ambulance could have been getting to him...I know this is hindsight and likely no one could have predicted what would happen next

As I understand 999 is not a direct Police line, right?

It is an Emergency number (like 112 in EU)
and the operator chooses the service to contact.

IMO BK should have been connected to MH hospital/ambulance, no?

 

[Skigh]

As I understand 999 is not a direct Police line, right?

It is an Emergency number (like 112 in EU)
and the operator chooses the service to contact.

IMO BK should have been connected to MH hospital/ambulance, no?

The caller is asked which service they need so presumably BK requested the police.

 

[Telltale]

As I understand 999 is not a direct Police line, right?

It is an Emergency number (like 112 in EU)
and the operator chooses the service to contact.

IMO BK should have been connected to MH hospital/ambulance, no?

The operator asks if they want Fire, Ambulance or Police. If they don't explicitly ask for one of the other two they get put through to the police.

A lot of people in mental health crisis will call the police first, even when they would be best helped by the mental health crisis line. If I had to guess, if he was rambling on but didn't indicate he was in or was a danger, and didn't aledge a crime, he would have been redirected to 111 and the police incident would have been closed immediately if there was no THR identified.

I don't know if the 999 operator can pass the call straight to 111 or if he would need to hand up and call. Also it's possible that even if his English was good, he might have reverted to his native language or his comprehension dropped in that state.

 

[Dpdan]

He appeared to age/ physically change after the children were born, imo.

 

[iamshadow21]

He appeared to age/ physically change after the children were born, imo.

There's nothing odd about someone beginning to show their age from their mid thirties onward. Especially men, who tend to do less to disguise it.

MOO

 

[Dotta]

The operator asks if they want Fire, Ambulance or Police. If they don't explicitly ask for one of the other two they get put through to the police.

A lot of people in mental health crisis will call the police first, even when they would be best helped by the mental health crisis line. If I had to guess, if he was rambling on but didn't indicate he was in or was a danger, and didn't aledge a crime, he would have been redirected to 111 and the police incident would have been closed immediately if there was no THR identified.

I don't know if the 999 operator can pass the call straight to 111 or if he would need to hand up and call. Also it's possible that even if his English was good, he might have reverted to his native language or his comprehension dropped in that state.

I have a feeling he was incoherent and the only number stuck in his mind was

999 as HelpLine.

Telling him to contact medical services was useless as I think he didn't know or remember the specific/correct number in the state he was in.

I see this 999 call as his ultimate and final cry for help.

JMO

 

[MrsWatson]

Man found dead with three others in Norfolk had called 999 over mental state

Four people found dead in home named by police force as Independent Office for Police Conduct starts investigation

www.theguardian.com

A man who was found dead in his house near Norwich along with three others was told to seek medical advice when he expressed concerned about his mental state in a 999 call earlier that morning, the police watchdog has revealed.

Announcing its investigation, the IOPC regional director, Charmaine Arbouin, said: “Norfolk constabulary established that the man had made a 999 call to the force shortly before 6am on 19 January. During that call the man expressed concerns for his own mental state saying he was confused. He was advised to seek medical advice and police did not attend.”

Arbouin added that an hour later the force did respond to a call from a dog walker who expressed concerns for the welfare of those inside the house.

 

[Dotta]

He appeared to age/ physically change after the children were born, imo.

He seemed to put on a lot of weight.

During e.g: depression
(I suspect he was suffering from it
MY OPINION ONLY so please don't berate me)

sufferers stop taking care of appearance and being fit.

I also suspect that this call might have been made AFTER the murders.
I reminds me of Derek R. who called the Police after fatally stabbing his mother.

Whatever happened,
IMO this case is a wake up call to take mental health issues seriously -
both by society and authorities.

Anybody can fall victim to such issues
and it would be good to know we will be helped and treated accordingly with easy access to specialists.

It is 21st century after all and there are remedies out there.

RIP to all victims of this tragedy.
I wish strength to mother to carry on living.

JMO

 

[Skigh]

At the moment we have not enough information about the phone call or what led up to it being made. Was his wife working overnight or had she just left for work?

Did another member of the family start ringing 999 and he grabbed the phone from them and gave a rambling story about being muddled?