GUILTY UK - Ellie Butler, 6, brutally murdered, Sutton, 28 Oct 2013 #1

[Tortoise]

I'm starting to get the same feeling of revulsion for this pair as I have for Pistorius. Sling some mud, divert, throw up some smoke...have a tantrum in court (in OP's case vomiting), feel sorry for me, I'm the victim..blah blah blah

 

[cottonweaver]

Notice he only left the dock for 2 minutes. 2 mins to calm down from an extraordinary rage etc etc. Turn it on, turn it off.

That was rehearsed IMO. He wanted to get that in whilst the path was testifying, muddy the waters and create the impression of righteous anger about his precious daughter's remains. Grandstanding got into the press alright - JG will confirm that when she speaks to him tonight at Belmarsh. Sideshow. Personally i would have preferred a news report on the witnesses testimony today.

He's been playing the system and professionals for years ( who are constrained by professional courtesy & conduct ) . Had I been that Judge ( God forbid LOL) I would've taken the opportunity there to remind him of apt conduct in the dock - no mutters, expletives, head shaking, no drama, no distracting the jury)

ETA Tortoise - just seen your post. Yes, think that's what's grabbed my attention in this case. The lies & game-playing.
You know what though - he should've done a Pisto and done some sobbing and retching, worked for him!

 

[Tortoise]

Agree cotton.

I've just asked one of the admin people if we can set up a members only thread in the parking lot, so we don't fall foul of reporting restrictions. Let's see.

 

[Supernovae]

Notice he only left the dock for 2 minutes. 2 mins to calm down from an extraordinary rage etc etc. Turn it on, turn it off.

That was rehearsed IMO. He wanted to get that in whilst the path was testifying, muddy the waters and create the impression of righteous anger about his precious daughter's remains. Grandstanding got into the press alright - JG will confirm that when she speaks to him tonight at Belmarsh. Sideshow. Personally i would have preferred a news report on the witnesses testimony today.

He's been playing the system and professionals for years ( who are constrained by professional courtesy & conduct ) . Had I been that Judge ( God forbid LOL) I would've taken the opportunity there to remind him of apt conduct in the dock - no mutters, expletives, head shaking, no drama, no distracting the jury)

ETA Tortoise - just seen your post. Yes, think that's what's grabbed my attention in this case. The lies & game-playing.
You know what though - he should've done a Pisto and done some sobbing and retching, worked for him!

And her as the backing chorus.

 

[cottonweaver]

Cottonweaver, I've tried to send you a message, but apparently you've exceeded your stored message capacity. You need to clear some space before I can send anything else.

I've cleared the lot - couldn't work out how to selectively delete.
If you want to re-try , it should be fine now.
Thanks

 

[cottonweaver]

Agree cotton.

I've just asked one of the admin people if we can set up a members only thread in the parking lot, so we don't fall foul of reporting restrictions. Let's see.

That is a great idea.
I get concerned that some of the "Guests" reading may be associates of theirs :scared: and even though everything is purely our Opinions and speculation, I think that it pays to be cautious.

 

[Supernovae]

That is a great idea.
I get concerned that some of the "Guests" reading may be associates of theirs :scared: and even though everything is purely our Opinions and speculation, I think that it pays to be cautious.

Although with a high membership website, it's still worth being slightly careful.

:cow:

 

[Gigi-G]

Ben Butler, 36, who was sitting in the glass-walled dock at the Old Bailey in London, lost his temper while a consultant paediatric pathologist from St Thomas’ hospital gave evidence about Ellie’s postmortem.

Andreas Marnerides was being asked by the defence about the cremation of Ellie after her death in October 2013.

When barrister Di Middleton asked whether the cremation was carried out in consultation with the defendant’s solicitors, Butler began screaming: “No, no, no, no, it wasn’t.”

"Through the glass he shouted at the doctor: “How dare you. You took samples and cremated her behind our back.”

Ellie’s mother, Jennifer Gray, who has been charged with a separate offence relating to treatment of the child, joined in on the attack on the doctor shouting: “How dare you.”

Butler then stormed out of the dock shouting: “You hid evidence ... yeah, yeah, yeah, you hid evidence.”"

Guardian link as above.

JG backed him up, of course she did. Anyone now not think she is colluding and comm with him re legal strategy?

Can anyone confirm for me plz. Was the Doctor BB shouted at M or F?
Everything is on a go slow loading up here. And also his Solicitor? Di is M or F? Plz?

It seems to me he's thinking he's representing himself. As if has the right to interrupt the Court in motion.

But agreed with Tortoise about OP..


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[Supernovae]

Particularly with any reporting restrictions relating to the other child and family proceedings rather than the conduct of the trial.

 

[Supernovae]

Can anyone confirm for me plz. Was the Doctor BB shouted at M or F?
Everything is on a go slow loading up here. And also his Solicitor? Di is M or F? Plz?

It seems to me he's thinking he's representing himself. As if has the right to interrupt the Court in motion.

But agreed with Tortoise about OP..


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The doctor is male. Di would be short for Dianne/Diana and female, I would have thought.

 

[Tortoise]

Can anyone confirm for me plz. Was the Doctor BB shouted at M or F?
Everything is on a go slow loading up here. And also his Solicitor? Di is M or F? Plz?

It seems to me he's thinking he's representing himself. As if has the right to interrupt the Court in motion.

But agreed with Tortoise about OP..


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the witness he shouted at is male
the barrister today for him is female (she works with male barrister Icah Peart)

 

[Gigi-G]

I'm not sure what this question about the cremation has to do with the proceedings? Surely that question should have been closed down by other side or judge? It's not evidence of murder or cruelty. Anyone got a clue?

I've really no idea about the defence asking about the cremation. It's not widely known. It's not been in any of the Media. But then again if it were down to the Maternal Grandparents to find the sweethearts resting place. Then so be it. They were more of loving parents than BB n JG ever were.
And at the end of the day. Ellie was at 'home' there.

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[cottonweaver]

Particularly with any reporting restrictions relating to the other child and family proceedings rather than the conduct of the trial.

UL Would you please spell that out for the uninitiated - do you mean there should be no ref to any of the adoption history/present etc etc?

 

[Tortoise]

I've really no idea about the defence asking about the cremation. It's not widely known. It's not been in any of the Media. But then again if it were down to the Maternal Grandparents to find the sweethearts resting place. Then so be it. They were more of loving parents than BB n JG ever were.
And at the end of the day. Ellie was at 'home' there.

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Since I posted that I now don't think this was about the fact that she was cremated without their knowledge but more to do with their experts not being able to get tissue samples before she was cremated. Something like that.

 

[Gigi-G]

The doctor is male. Di would be short for Dianne/Diana and female, I would have thought.

Thank you Supernovae
I had just read a post which Said Mr Andreas..
And yes that's what I thought regarding his defence.. Di Middleton.

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[Gigi-G]

the witness he shouted at is male
the barrister today for him is female (she works with male barrister Icah Peart)

Thank you Tortoise

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[Gigi-G]

Since I posted that I now don't think this was about the fact that she was cremated without their knowledge but more to do with their experts not being able to get tissue samples before she was cremated. Something like that.

Oh I see. I thought that samples were held for both sides to evaluate.
But would those who were actually on trial be privy to know what samples were and we're not taken. I would of thought not as it's evidence. For prosecution and defence.


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[Gigi-G]

Particularly with any reporting restrictions relating to the other child and family proceedings rather than the conduct of the trial.

All understood. I'm still relatively new to all this. Thank you for pointing me in the right direction.


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[Gigi-G]

Well Ellie is at peace now.
The media had released where she spent her time. And the other sibling has been named but quiet. Which I respect. And shall uphold that.

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[Gigi-G]

Okay it's that time of the day when my furry babies need dinner as do I and the grumpy one.
I shall catch you all in a while. Thank you for such an interesting afternoon

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