GUILTY UK - Ellie Butler, 6, brutally murdered, Sutton, 28 Oct 2013 #1

[squish]

Lol but why remove it. Lol makes no sense o well.
Thank you for clearing that up.

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I'm guessing there must be some legal reason why they had to remove it 🤔

 

[cottonweaver]

Thanks for this Tortoise, loads of interesting things there and great to get your impressions. He didn't really lose it did he - it's what I expected. Maybe Tuesday/Wednesday will be different under cross. So he can manage some self control if he wants to.

So he threw JG under the bus - to some extent.
Pretty disgusting he is using the sneaky "we argued by text" strategy, as posted previously.

He has had 3 years to prepare this narrative, with little else to think of in jail and he is at his "best" when he's allowed to work with his QC

- let's hope this is all undermined when the prosecution deal with him.

Do you think he was enjoying it Tortoise , once he got into his stride? Would you say he seemed calculating? A good actor?

The thing that struck me re. his 2012 interviews is that before Ellie came back to them he reiterated that he said that he wondered if it was actually too late for Ellie to start with a new set of parents. (I can paste it up if it doesn't breach any restrictions.)

 

[Supernovae]

"The judge gave him a lot of leeway but even he lost it towards the end of the day and raised his voice to tell him to stop while he spoke to the barrister."

What precipitated that?

 

[Supernovae]

Didn't happen in the BB trial.

It couldn't have done, as phones aren't allowed in the Old Bailey public gallery and there's a bag search as you go in.

 

[Tortoise]

Thanks for this Tortoise, loads of interesting things there and great to get your impressions. He didn't really lose it did he - it's what I expected. Maybe Tuesday/Wednesday will be different under cross. So he can manage some self control if he wants to.

So he threw JG under the bus - to some extent.
Pretty disgusting he is using the sneaky "we argued by text" strategy, as posted previously.

He has had 3 years to prepare this narrative, with little else to think of in jail and he is at his "best" when he's allowed to work with his QC

- let's hope this is all undermined when the prosecution deal with him.

Do you think he was enjoying it Tortoise , once he got into his stride? Would you say he seemed calculating? A good actor?

The thing that struck me re. his 2012 interviews is that before Ellie came back to them he reiterated that he said that he wondered if it was actually too late for Ellie to start with a new set of parents. (I can paste it up if it doesn't breach any restrictions.)

Hi cottonweaver, I've a lot more to write up. Fell asleep! Never mind, I'll update tomorrow and come back to your post. Too tired for now.

 

[Tortoise]

"The judge gave him a lot of leeway but even he lost it towards the end of the day and raised his voice to tell him to stop while he spoke to the barrister."

What precipitated that?

I'll come back to you on this tomorrow supern.

 

[Gigi-G]

Thank you Tortoise for your postings. Very intuitive. Will look forward to the rest when you're able.
Bless you. The Court must of been mentally draining as well as physically.
Hope you get chance to fully recover n charge yr battery's.
Tc. Ttfn

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[Gigi-G]

<---- this person is as stiff as a plank of 2 x 4. The family decided to hike down the pub n leave me in my recliner zzzzzzing with both furbabies led on me......
No wonder I'm STIFF the are both chunky monkeys.
Can't moan tho. I got brought back a nice cold bottle of rosè

Couple of glasses n I will be off to bed..

Wine + meds = Gigi-G in a mess &#128514;

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[flutterby]

It couldn't have done, as phones aren't allowed in the Old Bailey public gallery and there's a bag search as you go in.

That's why their tweet confused me! ahh nevermind

 

[Supernovae]

He's an arrogant piece of work, though, isn't he? He ought to show the judge more respect given that he'll (maybe, hopefully) be sentencing him before very long. That's decades of his life that he's playing around with.

 

[Gigi-G]

He's an arrogant piece of work, though, isn't he? He ought to show the judge more respect given that he'll (maybe, hopefully) be sentencing him before very long. That's decades of his life that he's playing around with.

He is seriously pee-ing me off with his smug self righteousness. Thinking he's some kind of poor man's barrister... wth.
He thinks he's gonna walk away from this a free man. Rather like when he represented himself back in 2012.

I hope the weld the door shut and melt the key n bury it like 100 ft down.....

I DO NOT LIKE HIM... he looks like a piggy.

His mannerisms his demeanour his calculating mind.

Yuk Yuk Yuk!!!!

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[cottonweaver]

No worries @ Tortoise - I didn't expect you to reply tonight.

The Guardian article has been updated and as I have now woken up , it makes for interesting reading.

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...of-unfair-trial-on-first-day-in-witness-stand

shades of 2012 in there.
Ben Butler actually "saved the day". in 2012 he claimed that a conveniently unnamed doc had told him he'd probably saved Ellie's life in 2007 (by putting fingers down her throat and moving her throat cyst)

roll forward to 2013 and :
JG was sick both mentally & physically and everything he did was to keep Ellie and support with childcare and he'd like his BPeter badge now please for being a good dad and having to put up with Sutton social services.....and bringing jg back from the brink.
Indeed, a conveniently unnamed independent social worker told him that he & JG had the best interaction they had ever seen!

I can see the jurors' eyebrows raising at he is rabbiting on.

Definitely worth a read - too much there to paste and not go over 10% rule ToS.

 

[flutterby]

So they were mistreated by the first hospital, by social services, by the courts, by JG's father. JG is a drinker, he contemplated suicide, JG was often in hospital leaving him all alone with Ellie? Quite the victim, eh? MOO

 

[cottonweaver]

So they were mistreated by the first hospital, by social services, by the courts, by JG's father. JG is a drinker, he contemplated suicide, JG was often in hospital leaving him all alone with Ellie? Quite the victim, eh? MOO

And they say "attack is the best form of defence" ...................pity that doesn't work in a court of law.

Poor Ben, I see why he is Mr. Angry - everywhere he is faced by total incompetence :furious:

Excepting
the independent social workers -who approved they get the kids back
the other London hospital (Elvina?) - who didn't think it was necessarily abuse in 2007
...... and anyone else who agreed with him or works with his new Defence story

And the world owes him a living but isn't doing enough for him :tantrum:
Note that he's whingeing about being on & benefits in summer 2012 and expenses of getting to court then - but considering JG's "issue" from Feb 2011 I think she's damned lucky to be receiving any. Secondly don't all witnesses incl Defendants get travel expenses etc anyway?
Lastly, hasn't he always been on benefits himself anyway?

PS In summer 2012 I think he was definitely missing JG's wages coming in, top-ups ......

Not forgetting that Legal Aid has financed his legal trials then, as now...... indeed maybe even as far back as his 2004 assault cases.

 

[Supernovae]

He's kicking up dirt to muddy the waters. What he's implying is that Ellie had some obscure, undiagnosed, disorder that, besides contributing to the 2007 incident caused her skull to smash from a minor fall, and made her insensible to pain from the broken shoulder.

 

[cottonweaver]

He's kicking up dirt to muddy the waters. What he's implying is that Ellie had some obscure, undiagnosed, disorder that, besides contributing to the 2007 incident caused her skull to smash from a minor fall, and made her insensible to pain from the broken shoulder.

yes and it's even worse than that

he claimed 2013's med experts are "corrupt"
the med experts that are "biased" and have been used before* in the 2007 case
that vital evidence has been "lost " (through malpractice or conspiracy? which would have shown that she had an underlying med problem - nothing to do with the catastrophic impact injuries. (This must relate to his cremation outburst the other day. )

those are very serious claims

 

[Gigi-G]

More wrong? wtf? why is that a good thing?!

There probably wasn't 'more wrong' he was probably still might do bring in the 'C' (cancer) card.
It's just him stalling for time. Trying to make a mockery of the 'experts' stating they were incompetent last trial and they are at this trial.
HE fancies himself as a 'poor man's lawyer' thinks he knows the law after studying SBS and legislative terminology in producing a case for trial. (HE represented himself at the 'exhonouration' trial. Where he had the Child abuse cases overturned)
And I think because he took charge of that case. Totally different to a case such as this.
He thinks he can push for a mis trial. Lol. He has aspects of grandure above his station.
Lol....

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[Gigi-G]

[video=twitter;731139306253864960]https://twitter.com/CourtNewsUK/status/731139306253864960[/video]

The blokes an a$$!!!

Ee awe. Ee awe.

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[Gigi-G]

Oh dear. These little glib jokes like that and the one about JG appearing like "J-Lo with 50 bags" in the other link! He's rehearsed this spiel.

Stupid move as for the jury this kind of levity jars with his big narrative theme- devastated man, impassioned victim, crucified by the system stuff who had his beloved daughter snatched away.

Cross exam Monday then?

Shame, would have liked him to get a dressing down before he left for Belmarsh for the weekend.

I think the Jury are thinking.... WTF IS THIS GUY ON!!! pahaha!

Hopefully they can see thru his bullsh1t.

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[Gigi-G]

So they were mistreated by the first hospital, by social services, by the courts, by JG's father. JG is a drinker, he contemplated suicide, JG was often in hospital leaving him all alone with Ellie? Quite the victim, eh? MOO

Couldn't of put it better myself.. only to add..... everyone is wrong in Ben's world... only maybe he n JG at a push is right......




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