GUILTY UK - Ellie Butler, 6, brutally murdered, Sutton, 28 Oct 2013 #1

[Tortoise]

I'm trying to give her the benefit of the doubt for the sake of it, for a moment. What if that was him doing those two first searches? It doesn't specify who made the searches. Maybe it's him googling to find the answers he wants – “Ellie hears voices – see Jennie, Ellie is disturbed. “, "Ellie lies......eg. when she says I have hit her..."

Anyway whoever is searching "child of 6 wetting the bed “ - this is the sort of article, ( extract below,) s/he could have hit upon with her search. I suppose s/he must have just ignored anything s/he didn't want to hear?


https://www.nspcc.org.uk/preventing-abuse/signs-symptoms-effects/

BIB I haven't seen any reference to bed wetting - only "urinating to be bad", which suggests it happened while Ellie was awake, if someone thought she was doing it to be bad. That is what gets me. I don't think a child of 6 1/2, particularly a girl (girls tend to be more advanced in personal skills although I appreciate not always) purposely wets to be bad, I think she would have felt ashamed it happened (children I have knowledge of who have wet themselves at 4/5 yrs in the classroom, possibly because they were too afraid to ask to go to the bathroom or didn't get there in time, seem to be acutely embarrassed by it).

It suggests to me an acute fear or anxiety response, given that she was at home.

To be honest I don't think he is the type of man/father to care much or go searching the web for such practical help. I could be wrong but this seems to be more her style, with her other searches.

His visit to the GP with Ellie about ear pinning has me baffled. I wonder if because of the schools rumbles about the 9 day absence, and possibility of Ellie talking to someone, he sought out a reason to go to the doctors and appear to be a caring father with her best interests at heart. Or, they were trying to build a case against the school, so that they had something to deflect with and sling back at school like they were not monitoring Ellie/bullying behaviour - see it's in the GP's records that we had to get medical help for her. The first thing most parents would do, especially these parents who seem to like to cause a stir, is to speak to the staff and say this is happening, please sort it out.

 

[Gigi-G]

BIB I haven't seen any reference to bed wetting - only "urinating to be bad", which suggests it happened while Ellie was awake, if someone thought she was doing it to be bad. That is what gets me. I don't think a child of 6 1/2, particularly a girl (girls tend to be more advanced in personal skills although I appreciate not always) purposely wets to be bad, I think she would have felt ashamed it happened (children I have knowledge of who have wet themselves at 4/5 yrs in the classroom, possibly because they were too afraid to ask to go to the bathroom or didn't get there in time, seem to be acutely embarrassed by it).

It suggests to me an acute fear or anxiety response, given that she was at home.

To be honest I don't think he is the type of man/father to care much or go searching the web for such practical help. I could be wrong but this seems to be more her style, with her other searches.

His visit to the GP with Ellie about ear pinning has me baffled. I wonder if because of the schools rumbles about the 9 day absence, and possibility of Ellie talking to someone, he sought out a reason to go to the doctors and appear to be a caring father with her best interests at heart. Or, they were trying to build a case against the school, so that they had something to deflect with and sling back at school like they were not monitoring Ellie/bullying behaviour - see it's in the GP's records that we had to get medical help for her. The first thing most parents would do, especially these parents who seem to like to cause a stir, is to speak to the staff and say this is happening, please sort it out.

Agreed Tortoise. Nail on the head right there.
The pinning of ears could just be another way of 'hiding' injuries. As it will of been logged with the doc for referral.
Also JG claimed that Ellie was being bullied. Another excuse to hide marks. Or blame shyness, bed wetting, lack of interaction with.
I'm sorry but these two people are both working together it seems. And to me that makes her guilty of Child Cruelty. Abuse. Neglect.
If one of them was unaware (e.g JG)
Then fine. But she's rolling along with him. Finding covering stories....
Or is it just me thinks that?

Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk

 

[Tortoise]

Hi Tortoise. Great find.
I do think all his venomous anger is directed to JG. So I am assuming cuz JG is Ellie's mom. That BB was calling her out to be 'mother scum)
Such a charming young man. I'm sure he's a great catch ! (NOT!!)

I'd love to know WHERE he got all this pent up anger and Hate to Ellie and her mom.

Also I wonder why her 'voice' upstairs was annoying him?
Was she on the fone to someone?
With the kids (bath n bedtime maybe)
Watching a film with the kids?
Chastising the kids.

Mind you I think he would get p'd off if you were sneezing / sniffing constantly with a cold.

Or could it be that this covers a time when Ellie was in pain. N JG was trying to deal with her and it?

So many questions. So many answers we'll not get.

Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk

Hi Gigi.

My feeling about his anger is that he didn't want the responsibility or commitment of family life. I've seen it referred to in the court documents from when they were fighting for the return of the children, not the anger element but the commitment element. They had never lived together at any stage, even at the time of the 2012 court battle - he was clear that he wasn't ready to commit to a permanent relationship with JG. If I've broken any rules by posting this I'll ask to have it removed from the thread. So it seems that the first time they lived together was the year that they got custody of the children back and Ellie died.

That in itself doesn't explain or justify the abusive behaviour - nothing would. I get the impression he wanted a bachelor life.

Further thoughts on the new puppy - not only a bribe/sweetener to stop Ellie talking about what had happened to her, but possibly a distraction at the school gates. Something to make Ellie smile and seem happy as she approached him after school. I think that period was a real key point when looking at developments, just before her death. Both parents were showing anger to school staff, (fear based?) to the point that they could not contain themselves, which could have been as a result of underlying tensions and happenings in the family, and JG had brought up the issue of grandparents and access in her last email to the headmaster, only days before Ellie's death.

 

[Tortoise]

Agreed Tortoise. Nail on the head right there.
The pinning of ears could just be another way of 'hiding' injuries. As it will of been logged with the doc for referral.
Also JG claimed that Ellie was being bullied. Another excuse to hide marks. Or blame shyness, bed wetting, lack of interaction with.
I'm sorry but these two people are both working together it seems. And to me that makes her guilty of Child Cruelty. Abuse. Neglect.
If one of them was unaware (e.g JG)
Then fine. But she's rolling along with him. Finding covering stories....
Or is it just me thinks that?

Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk

No, I think that too. She knew what was going on, I have no doubts at all. It's all a charade, as was the police interview and the phone call to 999, which she has admitted was a charade.

 

[Gigi-G]

No, I think that too. She knew what was going on, I have no doubts at all. It's all a charade, as was the police interview and the phone call to 999, which she has admitted was a charade.

Well yeah. So the Jury will already know that she isn't afraid of covering for him.
It's the length of depravity I think will actually come out.
Most mothers' would put their child above and over anything else.
I know that in a marriage it's a give and take situation. N possibly without the marriage there wouldn't be a child.
But the mother is the child's spokes person.
So an amicable outcome in most instances would usually be the way to go.
Unless you have a severely abusive partner. Who CONTROLS YOU!

Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk

 

[Gigi-G]

Hi Gigi.

My feeling about his anger is that he didn't want the responsibility or commitment of family life. I've seen it referred to in the court documents from when they were fighting for the return of the children, not the anger element but the commitment element. They had never lived together at any stage, even at the time of the 2012 court battle - he was clear that he wasn't ready to commit to a permanent relationship with JG. If I've broken any rules by posting this I'll ask to have it removed from the thread. So it seems that the first time they lived together was the year that they got custody of the children back and Ellie died.

That in itself doesn't explain or justify the abusive behaviour - nothing would. I get the impression he wanted a bachelor life.

Further thoughts on the new puppy - not only a bribe/sweetener to stop Ellie talking about what had happened to her, but possibly a distraction at the school gates. Something to make Ellie smile and seem happy as she approached him after school. I think that period was a real key point when looking at developments, just before her death. Both parents were showing anger to school staff, (fear based?) to the point that they could not contain themselves, which could have been as a result of underlying tensions and happenings in the family, and JG had brought up the issue of grandparents and access in her last email to the headmaster, only days before Ellie's death.

Hi Tortoise

Seems as if we are mostly all on the same or similar page here.
That HE wasn't looking for a 'settling down relationship' I think she misread his signals. Maybe they initially had mutually 'satistfied' each other. (If you get what I mean)
But to him I think that's where the similarity ends.
I didn't realise they weren't living together at the most part.
Which makes his Violence and Abusive n Threatening behaviour. Really quite worrying.
Why didn't he just tell her to 'f' off.?
Oh wait.. he did. Many times.
Just she saw it as it was just his temper. He'll cool down later?

The just seems such a sad loss of a sweet child's life. For what?
Did he hate her?
Resent her?
Wasn't her dad?
Or didn't want to be her dad?

More clarification needed on these family dynamics.

And yet when fighting to get the first case against him back in 2009. They BB & JG. Fought together.
When fighting for Ellie to be placed in the family.. they fought TOGETHER.
So.. . It suited him 'sometimes' the 'together' part.
Or was he just doing it as he re gained his freedom. N pushing for Ellie's return. Would quash everything on the head.

Either way. He's a very selfish self centred man.
He rolls around his own well being. And that is mostly what he cares of.

Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk

 

[Tortoise]

Hi Tortoise

Seems as if we are mostly all on the same or similar page here.
That HE wasn't looking for a 'settling down relationship' I think she misread his signals. Maybe they initially had mutually 'satistfied' each other. (If you get what I mean)
But to him I think that's where the similarity ends.
I didn't realise they weren't living together at the most part.
Which makes his Violence and Abusive n Threatening behaviour. Really quite worrying.
Why didn't he just tell her to 'f' off.?
Oh wait.. he did. Many times.
Just she saw it as it was just his temper. He'll cool down later?

The just seems such a sad loss of a sweet child's life. For what?
Did he hate her?
Resent her?
Wasn't her dad?
Or didn't want to be her dad?

More clarification needed on these family dynamics.

And yet when fighting to get the first case against him back in 2009. They BB & JG. Fought together.
When fighting for Ellie to be placed in the family.. they fought TOGETHER.
So.. . It suited him 'sometimes' the 'together' part.
Or was he just doing it as he re gained his freedom. N pushing for Ellie's return. Would quash everything on the head.

Either way. He's a very selfish self centred man.
He rolls around his own well being. And that is mostly what he cares of.

Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk

I don't really understand why he would fight with JG to get the children back from care, while not wanting a family life. I think perhaps he just wanted to do the rounds and clear his name in every respect, which included having the right to custody of his children - whether he wanted them to live with him or not. It would seem odd to have a conviction quashed but then not pursue custody of the children. The first would seem a bit hollow without the second.

 

[Gigi-G]

I don't really understand why he would fight with JG to get the children back from care, while not wanting a family life. I think perhaps he just wanted to do the rounds and clear his name in every respect, which included having the right to custody of his children - whether he wanted them to live with him or not. It would seem odd to have a conviction quashed but then not pursue custody of the children. The first would seem a bit hollow without the second.

That's what I was getting at.. he would fight with her at her as if the last thing he wanted was a relationship.
But in all the grand scheme of things. He had to keep her on his side. Becuz of ... a) quashing his sentence. Which would exhonourate him from all charges.

Then... b) once exhonourated. To appeal against the state to return Ellie and sibling to her natural family. (JG)

Fighting the state together would bring about a united front with dad having his custodial sentence revoked and mom having her children back to 'live' as a normal family.

Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk

 

[Tortoise]

I wouldn't be surprised at all if BB does, if he's convinced he's done no wrong

sorry I missed your reply, about BB giving evidence.

I'm not sure he will because he has such a low anger threshold. Some prosecutors can be really testing when they know that. They speak to them as being guilty to show the jury how this person handles himself. I don't know if he could handle it and his barrister will have got the gist of him from his briefings. He mutters all the time from the dock.

JG on the other hand has the ability to pull off a good act, but I think she will come unstuck with her diaries/letters etc, and the lies she's admitted telling police and paramedics.

 

[cottonweaver]

I've missed a lot of posts

Just to add to just a few of the interesting posts above
my saying "child wetting the bed" was me paraphrasing re.Ellie urinating in the JG list. You know I had never even considered it not to be bed wetting so it's interesting to look at that alternative- she might be wetting herself whilst awake, in fear. Wow, that's even worse isn't it.

BB feeling trapped into fatherhood etc, but fighting for their return. I agree with you both - that he was a reluctant Dad. I'd even go as far as speculating that she possibly hoped she would get pregnant both times by him but that wasn't his intention.
Subsequently I imagine, at the start, it was she that actually wanted him to do some solo baby care so that he would bond with the the babies, rather than him asking to have eg. Ellie over night as a very young baby back in 2007. ( She was hoping to get the family togetherness/BB to commit)

On the exoneration issue. Yes he wanted the overturning at appeal and kids returned to prove his innocence - not because he wants to be a hands-on Dad. Nothing worse for guys like him to have lingering suspicion as "child beater" abuser etc. amongst the circles he might move in. Of all the crimes, that and paedophilia is seen as the lowest of the low so IMO there is motivation there for both of the legal & Social services fights

my "Mother scum" error . Aha. I mis-read the phrase in the DMirror, so it's not the grandma he is referring to.
"But in a row over childcare on August 5, Butler tells her to "f*** off" and called her "mother scum", the court heard." !

I reckon he will take the chance and testify. Despite the good point about his "constant muttering"/poor self-control issues already made, I think he can still rein it in & put on a show when he needs to - and he's been through a few legal battles already and he likes to be in control so I don't think he will be able to resist it.

 

[Gigi-G]

sorry I missed your reply, about BB giving evidence.

I'm not sure he will because he has such a low anger threshold. Some prosecutors can be really testing when they know that. They speak to them as being guilty to show the jury how this person handles himself. I don't know if he could handle it and his barrister will have got the gist of him from his briefings. He mutters all the time from the dock.

JG on the other hand has the ability to pull off a good act, but I think she will come unstuck with her diaries/letters etc, and the lies she's admitted telling police and paramedics.

Tortoise I'm not 100% sure. But I think BB represented himself at his exhonouration trial.

I think he was the one who researched from his time in Prison.
And I think JG probably helped putting it all together into an easy to read/understand file.

Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk

 

[Gigi-G]

I've missed a lot of posts

Just to add to just a few of the interesting posts above
my saying "child wetting the bed" was me paraphrasing re.Ellie urinating in the JG list. You know I had never even considered it not to be bed wetting so it's interesting to look at that alternative- she might be wetting herself whilst awake, in fear. Wow, that's even worse isn't it.

BB feeling trapped into fatherhood etc, but fighting for their return. I agree with you both - that he was a reluctant Dad. I'd even go as far as speculating that she possibly hoped she would get pregnant both times by him but that wasn't his intention.
Subsequently I imagine, at the start, it was she that actually wanted him to do some solo baby care so that he would bond with the the babies, rather than him asking to have eg. Ellie over night as a very young baby back in 2007. ( She was hoping to get the family togetherness/BB to commit)

On the exoneration issue. Yes he wanted the overturning at appeal and kids returned to prove his innocence - not because he wants to be a hands-on Dad. Nothing worse for guys like him to have lingering suspicion as "child beater" abuser etc. amongst the circles he might move in. Of all the crimes, that and paedophilia is seen as the lowest of the low so IMO there is motivation there for both of the legal & Social services fights

my "Mother scum" error . Aha. I mis-read the phrase in the DMirror, so it's not the grandma he is referring to.
"But in a row over childcare on August 5, Butler tells her to "f*** off" and called her "mother scum", the court heard." !

I reckon he will take the chance and testify. Despite the good point about his "constant muttering"/poor self-control issues already made, I think he can still rein it in & put on a show when he needs to - and he's been through a few legal battles already and he likes to be in control so I don't think he will be able to resist it.

Totally agree with you.
I took the bed wetting as a night thing. Maybe at 5/6 years old and been given a run down of what Ellie's like and dislikes are favourite foods TV programmes you know things that would get Ellie at her ease. And of course whether or not there were any issues. So I'm guessing bed wetting was a recent problem.
That could be down to several things. From the fear of the dark. A new home new people new surroundings. We don't yet know what access JG had to the children. If any. But it's a big ask for a 6 year old to take on board. I wouldn't be surprised if she was wetting the bed at night. Thing is to not make a fuss. Make light of it. It's easy to wash sheets. (Buy a rubber mattress cover) it all stems to fear. Whether consciously or sub consciously.
Same as wetting during the day. Or at the crucial time of doing something wrong and getting told off for it.
Fear will do those kinds of things.

But yet again. She's been in a contented home life with her foster parents. For the last 4 ish years. Happy cheerful loving home. To come back to a home she doesn't know. People she doesn't really know. yelling shouting screaming bad words arguments.

Then we have the slaps the beatings. It looks like her head and face took a fair deal of these. If she already had an ongoing brain issue. Which I think she had. From her 7 week old incident. Then abusing her around the head is just going to add to the injury. No mind if it's 4 years or 14 years.. the more your head takes a beating the more damaged it becomes.
It really pains me to think of these.. as a nursery manager I had to do a course on Child protection. Signs to look out for etc.
I'm glad to say I never really had to use it in the 5 years I was there.
But it's the thought. Just the thought of an adult hitting a child like they'd thump someone their own age/size.

JG asking for luck and love and health and a baby boy. Maybe she thought having a boy BB would accept more. Love... I don't think she'd ever get that from him. I think she lived in a dreamworld. An idealisation of what she expected to be.

JG initially getting pregnant... hmm I still am not convinced that Ellie is his. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe she tried 'entrapment' she may of thought he'd stay with her n fall in love scenario.
As it didn't work with Ellie is wouldn't work with a second child.

It's like he has made her feel worthless. That she's useless. Stupid. So she blames herself for things that go on..

Tough one to call...... many roots in all directions.

Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk

 

[cottonweaver]

But yet again. She's been in a contented home life with her foster parents. For the last 4 ish years. Happy cheerful loving home. To come back to a home she doesn't know. People she doesn't really know. yelling shouting screaming bad words arguments.

Then we have the slaps the beatings. It looks like her head and face took a fair deal of these. If she already had an ongoing brain issue. Which I think she had. From her 7 week old incident. Then abusing her around the head is just going to add to the injury. No mind if it's 4 years or 14 years.. the more your head takes a beating the more damaged it becomes.


JG asking for luck and love and health and a baby boy. Maybe she thought having a boy BB would accept more. Love... I don't think she'd ever get that from him. I think she lived in a dreamworld. An idealisation of what she expected to be.


Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk

snipped just to respond to those two points

BIB That sentence really brings it home for me. Ellie must have been bewildered. She didn't really know these new parents (despite supervised meetings or whatever before they were reunited. ) Everything she remembered was the love and care from her grandparents, who probably cared for her full time. To go from that to this hell- so bewildering & scary. She didn't really even have time to get inured to the abuse in just 11 months. ( That sounds off, but I mean some battered and abused kids - it's all they have ever known so maybe there is a protective mechanism IDK. ) So Ellie's eyes closed as if in a trance in the phone video footage .......

ULined - the "baby boy". We don't know the date of the letter that references it, found in a black leather bag IIRC , in the hall but I expect you are right - living in a fantasy world, ( or he may not even have known) that a baby boy could fix it. Committment , a "proper family". What is it about her particular weaknesses that makes her fixated with him above and beyond everything. ( Is that typical in DV cases?) We all saw the old photo of her, she was pretty, had career options and presumably a decent education & parents. BB however.......

Anyway, he is currently at Belmarsh now, which as you'll imagine has some tough inmates and as she is presumably unemployed, she can visit him there when she is not attending trial. I presume, as an accused child killer, he is in segregation /a special unit for his safety. ( maybe after the trial they expect to move him elsewhere. )

As for JG , I expect we'll see her with her trolley case ( of notes/past legal papers etc?) rolling in to court tomorrow.

 

[Gigi-G]

It's just heartbreaking. I could go deeper into being more analytical but I think everyone gets the gist.
It's not like Ellie was 4 or 5 at the time that she was injured the first time. So that she had some recollection of her family life. At least she would of had some sense of familiarity on returning back there.
And she wasn't even back home a year. Until that poor sweet girl met her death.
What did she ever do to initiate this cruelty.
Not once. But twice.
In the points JG raises on the handwritten notes.
Why does she lie?
Why does she not listen?
There's only 2 people to ask about that and that is JG and BB.
She was a scared frightened lonely lil girl.
She zoned out with her eyes closed cuz maybe the pain then wouldn't be so bad.
Maybe she lied to save her sibling taking the blame and being punished.
Maybe she had an 'invisible' friend.
Many children do in this kind of situation.
That could be the voice she hears.
All coping mechanisms. Cuz I wouldn't mind betting that Ellie was beat many more times than we'll ever know.
And I'm sure that after this trial has been and gone. Questions will be asked.
"Why did they miss read Ellie's plight?"

All moo of course.

Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk

 

[Gigi-G]

He (BB) will either be on D or A wing. Belmarsh rings a bell. I'm sure NM was sent there. He'd probably be on those kind of wings too.

Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk

 

[Gigi-G]

He (BB) will either be on D or A wing. Belmarsh rings a bell. I'm sure NM was sent there. He'd probably be on those kind of wings too.

Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk

Nopes NM is in Long Martins on vulnerable wing..

Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk

 

[Gigi-G]

http://m.suttonguardian.co.uk/news/13219787.Murder_accused_Ben_Butler_represents_himself_in_court/

Going back over research...

Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk

 

[Gigi-G]

http://smithforensic.blogspot.co.uk/2010/06/ben-butler-uk-shaken-baby-syndrome.html?m=1

Also here is a good write up. As well as under the main writing. There's a part about SBS and interview with BB

Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk

 

[PrimeSuspect]

This pair are awful.
From all the quotes/links so far, as above -

They seem to have jointly demonised their child - the list of problems supposedly displayed by Ellie and even a reference again that Ellie is faking not hearing Mum call her down for cake.

In the 2007 case ( conviction quashed on appeal) described in http://shakenbabyandsuddeninfantdeat...1_archive.html, he makes pointed references to the 999 call contents as if the audible distress will be evidence of his honesty. Now JGray does similar about the final tape "I almost lost my voice."

The paramedic says that BB applied aftershave for the ambulance ride! WTH. ( Is he just a narcissist or was he covering a smell? )

That poor child, as well as the younger daughter must have had a hell of a life with them. Also feel sorry for the grandparents who fostered Ellie the first time around. ( I'm wondering if it may even be them that alerted social services to pregnancy 2. )

Wonder why she said this to her work colleague: "Ms Bernstein said Gray had come into work and told her her partner was down in Cornwall, looking after his ill father, and that Ellie was being looked after by her godfather."

JG sounds like she has some kind of weird Stockholm Syndrome - she has put him above her own children- yet I can't fully believe that she has not herself abused her own child too. She is too willing to deflect the blame off him on to herself . Who caused the shoulder fractures - we won't find out.

I looked for the 2012 video of the This Morning broadcast but unfortunately couldn't find it. Yes Gigi, he comes across a total faker in the print interviews. Says he spent 8 years reading up on SBS and this ultimately led to his exhoneration even though SS still withheld their children's return after his release. ( Looks like he became a professional victim, spending his daytime researching that and then by 2012 he was on TV and across national newspapers, seeking attention & a strange status.)

Has social services evidence been put already or doesn't that happen? They obviously had many grounds for the previous "neglect" and i think this was when the couple were temporarily living apart. ( ?)

It's a shame that most UK posters won't even know there is a WS thread for this shocking case.

IMO, BB has classic symptoms of NPD and his wife is a co-dependent (basically, an enabler) Parents with NPD will often scapegoat a child to an horrific degree, sometimes causing their death like with poor Ellie.
The enablers will do anything to satisfy their spouse and in many cases, just as abusive. BB can never be rehabilitated and actually will become worse with age, he has no empathy or compassion, he's incapable of loving anyone. His family have to uphold his illusion or else! He's rotten to the core and his wife is pathetic!
:cry:


Ben Butler murder trial: Ellie 'often absent from school'
Ms Vennard said: "Her attendance was so low, every absence that occurred would need medical evidence. It was just an ongoing thing."
Administration assistant Kelly Vennard said Ellie's mother Ms Gray became "angry and aggressive" when the school contacted her and demanded to know if other parents were treated the same way.
Four days before Ellie's death, Mr Butler took Ellie to see Dr Sheldon Huggins about getting her ears pinned back.
Dr Huggins said: "I thought it was odd because she was a young girl. It would be an operation. It would mean putting her to sleep. I thought it was a bit drastic but given he eventually told me she was being bullied, that's why I decided to refer her."

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-36226258

 

[Gigi-G]

IMO, BB has classic symptoms of NPD and his wife is a co-dependent (basically, an enabler) Parents with NPD will often scapegoat a child to an horrific degree, sometimes causing their death like with poor Ellie.
The enablers will do anything to satisfy their spouse and in many cases, just as abusive. BB can never be rehabilitated and actually will become worse with age, he has no empathy or compassion, he's incapable of loving anyone. His family have to uphold his illusion or else! He's rotten to the core and his wife is pathetic!
:cry:


Ben Butler murder trial: Ellie 'often absent from school'
Ms Vennard said: "Her attendance was so low, every absence that occurred would need medical evidence. It was just an ongoing thing."
Administration assistant Kelly Vennard said Ellie's mother Ms Gray became "angry and aggressive" when the school contacted her and demanded to know if other parents were treated the same way.
Four days before Ellie's death, Mr Butler took Ellie to see Dr Sheldon Huggins about getting her ears pinned back.
Dr Huggins said: "I thought it was odd because she was a young girl. It would be an operation. It would mean putting her to sleep. I thought it was a bit drastic but given he eventually told me she was being bullied, that's why I decided to refer her."

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-36226258

Excellent post.
And very thought provoking.
We could go on and on and but yet again like so many children before her and I'm sure more after her will slip thru the net. Just like baby P. One of the more prominent cases in my mind. I'm sure we'll all have a case we can refer to.
All the relevant departments were alerted to the fact that the were issues outstanding. From SS to GP to Nursery. Yet they ALL failed to communicate.
Same has befallen Ellie's fate. SS were involved from the time of the first incident. As were authorities such as the Police. And the school.
After Ellie was handed over to BB and JG ALL authorities should of been on RED alert for this lil sweetheart.
There's always been a question mark over BB'S behaviour/demeanour. From the get go.
And it actually took a couple of years for BB and JG launching their campaign to get Ellie back. Until they actually did.
(BTW. As far as I can follow up. BB and JG. had visits to Ellie. BB was twice a year for 2 hours at a time in a contact centre. I am assuming JG would of had similar)
Ellie didn't know her birth parents. I don't know how the foster parents explained away who they were. But Ellie seemed settled in life.
It was a big ask for BB and JG to have custody once more.
No wonder (in JG'S eyes) Ellie became difficult to parent.
I bet looking back the foster parents wished they'd of had more rights. And brought Ellie up to become a lovely young lady.
They must be broken. To have 'their sweet Ellie' dead less than a year later. At the hands of a Narcissistic, selfish, bullying MONSTER!
There are no words strong enough or polite enough to print on here. How they must be feeling.
Justice... this time MUST be done.
And there has got to be something in place. If more than 2 agencies present concern over a child. Then that must be acted on IMMEDIATELY. No more children should have to slip thru the net and be failed like so many have before!
THIS was PREVENTABLE!

Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk