GUILTY UK - Ellie Butler, 6, brutally murdered, Sutton, 28 Oct 2013 #1

[cottonweaver]

Anyone think the ear pinning might be a way he could cover up damage to Ellie's skull? Say it could have been caused during surgery?

It confounded me. I also suggested it might be because he was trying to keep the GPs sweet -caring Dad - he goes twice without JG, twice for spurious reasons. I posted that I thought he may have planned to back out of the op later. ( Put simply they avoid GPs when they have done her GBH damage but go when she has a bruise requiring a paracetomol and second time for elective surgery! Go figure where that leads ...)
2nd - i thought, if he really did want the op, there was some perversity in wishing to submit her to more physical pain and hospitalisation

so we end up with sthng strange which is not quite Munchausen's but goodness knows if any of these have credence.

PS I meant to add - would like to know why JG was admitted to hosp v.early Jan 2013 - we know that just cause SS phoned the school as they had found out that. Let's hope we get some records revealed on the likely DV front there.

 

[Gigi-G]

I really am looking forward to cross examination. Of BB. He's never gonna keep a cool enough head to give an answer. Otherwise he'll do a video link I think.
Now how does JG'S case run concurrent?
I know they are both accused of Child neglect. But isn't BB primarily taking the stand for murder?

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[Tortoise]

I really am looking forward to cross examination. Of BB. He's never gonna keep a cool enough head to give an answer. Otherwise he'll do a video link I think.
Now how does JG'S case run concurrent?
I know they are both accused of Child neglect. But isn't BB primarily taking the stand for murder?

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I hope to go in when they give evidence, expect the public gallery will be a bit fuller. Wonder how long til the prosecution close their case, how many more witnesses to go.

 

[Tortoise]

I'd be scared of sitting next to him in the dock. Those custody officers are not exactly treating him as dangerous. Sometimes one gets up to go out for a few minutes leaving one female in there with them both, sitting at a distance away. He seems very unpredictable to me.

 

[cottonweaver]

In response to Cottonweaver saying they won't get an easy time inside..... I feel awful for saying this as I'm not a violent person. But you know.... I hope BB gets a taste of his own medicine. But they'll both be segregated on a 'safe' wing. Like he was before he was 'inside' where he claimed he was with all the nonces and child abusers that he couldn't even look at let alone talk to.
News for you BB and JG. You are just like them!

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One more consolation Gigi - the thing he claimed he hated most - loss of pride due to being housed "inappropriately " paedophiles, well, er, it's going to happen all over again for Ben Butler. Good.
Last time in his media blitz, he omitted to mention he was also in with child killers too.

maybe this jail would do !
http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/ian-watkins-join-april-jones-6433046

 

[cottonweaver]

I hope to go in when they give evidence, expect the public gallery will be a bit fuller. Wonder how long til the prosecution close their case, how many more witnesses to go.

You mentioned no. 39 today.
Is that a real number value , do you think? we have had quite a lot when you consider cops, paramedics, nurse, neighbours & then medical experts, school staff .

 

[Tortoise]

You mentioned no. 39 today.
Is that a real number value , do you think? we have had quite a lot when you consider cops, paramedics, nurse, neighbours & then medical experts, school staff .

you probably know this but I don't think they necessarily take them in order, but availability too.What did they say, 2 months. Trial started on 19th April? Once the defence is up I expect they will treat us to their own hand-picked experts too.

 

[cottonweaver]

you probably know this but I don't think they necessarily take them in order, but availability too.What did they say, 2 months. Trial started on 19th April? Once the defence is up I expect they will treat us to their own hand-picked experts too.

I honestly DK about procedures at trial.
ON the other point I do recall him whinging that in his last trial as he was on LAid, he was only allowed 3 medical experts whereas he moaned that the CPS had big£ to throw at their case.
( He also reckons last trial cost the taxpayer £1 million, so we get to pay again in 2016 - make sure you get your money's worth when you go back to listen Tortoise.

 

[Gigi-G]

One more consolation Gigi - the thing he claimed he hated most - loss of pride due to being housed "inappropriately " paedophiles, well, er, it's going to happen all over again for Ben Butler. Good.
Last time in his media blitz, he omitted to mention he was also in with child killers too.

maybe this jail would do !
http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/ian-watkins-join-april-jones-6433046

Oh my goodness me. There's a lot of very nasty men in there. I do trust the Jury will do us proud. I'm sure they will as they've seen the evidence from pathologists and forensics. It's pretty gruesome stuff I imagine.
Throw away the key.. he can't be trusted with any female. Child or adult. Imo

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[Gigi-G]

You mentioned no. 39 today.
Is that a real number value , do you think? we have had quite a lot when you consider cops, paramedics, nurse, neighbours & then medical experts, school staff .

Ah I love to sit in. But am housebound at mo till I get my stars to stabilise.. I should imagine there'd be a fair bit of pathology etc to get thru.

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[Gigi-G]

Ah I love to sit in. But am housebound at mo till I get my stars to stabilise.. I should imagine there'd be a fair bit of pathology etc to get thru.

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Stats *** dumb auto correct

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[cottonweaver]

"they went on trial at the Old Bailey on 19 April 2016. The case continues and is expected to last two months."

http://www.murdermap.co.uk/pages/cases/case.asp?CID=738059953

i read it previously in sutton guardian but cant find that link again , think this link is a paste of that

 

[cottonweaver]

PS i put one of her search terms in and ended up with this near the top of the hits

sad stuff

http://www.medhelp.org/posts/Child-...inating-and-defecating-in-bedroom/show/327266

 

[Gigi-G]

It confounded me. I also suggested it might be because he was trying to keep the GPs sweet -caring Dad - he goes twice without JG, twice for spurious reasons. I posted that I thought he may have planned to back out of the op later. ( Put simply they avoid GPs when they have done her GBH damage but go when she has a bruise requiring a paracetomol and second time for elective surgery! Go figure where that leads ...)
2nd - i thought, if he really did want the op, there was some perversity in wishing to submit her to more physical pain and hospitalisation

so we end up with sthng strange which is not quite Munchausen's but goodness knows if any of these have credence.

PS I meant to add - would like to know why JG was admitted to hosp v.early Jan 2013 - we know that just cause SS phoned the school as they had found out that. Let's hope we get some records revealed on the likely DV front there.

Where did you find that? Well spotted I missed that totally :0

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[Gigi-G]

I'd be scared of sitting next to him in the dock. Those custody officers are not exactly treating him as dangerous. Sometimes one gets up to go out for a few minutes leaving one female in there with them both, sitting at a distance away. He seems very unpredictable to me.

Takes me back to the trial of the 2 men that killed Lee Rigby. I seriously wouldn't want to of been anywhere near those two. I wouldn't trust anyone in court who was up for a murder trial.

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[cottonweaver]

Where did you find that? Well spotted I missed that totally :0

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In the school staff's day on the stand. Might even have been Tortoise's day there?

January - 2nd day of school, Social Services contacted the school because they had discovered JG had been admitted to hospital. SS got back in touch with school later and said wtte we have located Ellie, she was with her father (during the hosp admission. )
I bet JG has an awful lot of old injuries but i'm sure she would never give permission for an exam.

 

[Gigi-G]

PS i put one of her search terms in and ended up with this near the top of the hits

sad stuff

http://www.medhelp.org/posts/Child-...inating-and-defecating-in-bedroom/show/327266

Oh my that is. Soo very sad. Makes you wonder what's laying so heavy on her mind.

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[cottonweaver]

Takes me back to the trial of the 2 men that killed Lee Rigby. I seriously wouldn't want to of been anywhere near those two. I wouldn't trust anyone in court who was up for a murder trial.

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That pair are in Belmarsh as is BB! Won't be anywhere near each other though.

 

[Gigi-G]

"they went on trial at the Old Bailey on 19 April 2016. The case continues and is expected to last two months."

http://www.murdermap.co.uk/pages/cases/case.asp?CID=738059953

i read it previously in sutton guardian but cant find that link again , think this link is a paste of that

So we're looking at sometime in June then?
I think Becky Watts case was over the same length of time. And the Jury was back in after 3 hours.

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[cottonweaver]

Oh my that is. Soo very sad. Makes you wonder what's laying so heavy on her mind.

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I did the search within 2013 parameters to see what might come up for JG. Let's say Ellie was urinating, not simply bed wetting, according to some of the psych commenters on that link, the key factor is stress and abuse.
If Ellie was suddenly urinating , we can guess why.
So is that why she gets hit again and again - or does he need no reason?

Roll back to 2007, he tried to feed 6 week old Ellie, changed a messy nappy and then shortly after Ellie goes limp.
( Yes I know I am massively over- reaching, as in reality that guy needs zero excuse to lash out, it appears from his text messges. )