GUILTY UK - Ellie Butler, 6, brutally murdered, Sutton, 28 Oct 2013 #1

[Tortoise]

In my opinion, which is unqualified to make such diagnoses but nevertheless well considered, BB has a severe personality disorder, psychopathic/sociopathic/antisocial, I wouldn't know how to differentiate between them, but he is highly dangerous in terms of not only violence but in the art of deception and manipulation.

That is my conclusion after much confusion yesterday. I just could not marry the two people (I'm referring to BB here, not BB and JG) that I've seen, the one person 'seen' through the evidence and the other seen on the stand. He is a master of deception. That might come across as an exaggeration but it really isn't, I was utterly perplexed - and worried - that I had misjudged the evidence. But then I thought again of the evidence, and just had to conclude that it is stronger than his performance.

I do hope the jury will not be bamboozled by him. That is my fear - there has been no up to date psychiatric evaluation presented in court, as far as I am aware.

I have to be honest and tell you that if I came to court yesterday with no knowledge of his history or Ellie's history, I would believe he was a victim of an outrageous miscarriage of justice. I would give him the benefit of the doubt and find him not guilty of the injury to Ellie as a baby and I would see him as a bit of a lovable rogue. He hasn't described the day of Ellie's death yet so I can't give my verdict in that scenario, but I already have enough of an insight of him to imagine how it will go.

I say lovable with a taste of bile in my mouth, that would be how I would imagine him if I was blind. The look of him is something else. He turns my stomach, and it's not because of Ellie's injuries. He exudes something quite vile.

I have no sympathy for JG, none. She is just as much a part of this deception. Ellie deserves justice and she is as determined as he is to see that it isn't done. I don't know how this could come about, she is something of an enigma to me - her part is more than being his victim. I am certain of that.

I think the charges are right for her. BB and JG are a toxic match for each other. She wears rose quartz by the looks of it, and a cross, and she writes prayers to goddesses and Jesus - all of which comes across as being quite innocent and spiritual, but I have to judge her on her intellect and there is something that doesn't sit right in this. She didn't protect her baby. She had a choice in this for Ellie, her loyalty to him is so misplaced. Her behaviour was criminal. She saw his family in the public gallery, tears welled in her eyes and she blew a kiss and put her hand on her heart as she glanced at them and then over at BB on the stand. I'm thinking, what is wrong with this woman? Who would protect such a demon? The only conclusion I can reach is that she wouldn't, unless she had a part in what happened that she needs to keep hidden. That is what convinces me, apart from the hard evidence, she is guilty of cruelty.

It was really interesting to observe the courtroom yesterday. BB finally had his stage. He was the conductor. He listened to no one, and showed deference to no one, but he did it in such a way that it would seem draconian to stop him. He thinks he will get off if he slings enough mud at the experts and gets across to the jury that he is a victim. That way he managed to justify his outrage and his anger, he could explain his vileness by putting it down to his frustrations - who wouldn't be that angry if they had unfairly lost two children to the care system, experienced the incompetence of social workers, hospital staff, police and medical experts, unfair trials, poverty, and having been imprisoned with despicable "nonces" and child abusers?

Several times he referred to JG as being mad, off the wall, never seen anything like it (her behaviour), but he understands it now in hindsight and should have been more supportive of her. He loved her but his situation was worse, he fought for 6 years through criminal courts, appeal courts and family courts, and he wouldn't have done that if his children were not the most important thing in the world to him. He adored them. When he didn't take them to school it was because he had been deprived of them for 6 years and deserved to spend time with them catching up on all the things and activities that he and they had missed out on.

I do like the judge, a lot. At first I thought he was a bit quiet and reserved, and not doing enough to keep control of the court. If you were an alien and landed in that courtroom yesterday, in fact even before yesterday with all the shenanigans in the dock, you might think that the Old Bailey was a place where there was no hierarchy, no discipline or respect, where the defendants run the show basically. However, I saw a few glimpses yesterday of the kind of judge I think he is - very experienced, very thoughtful, highly perceptive and on the ball.

BB's counsel, Icah Peart, was speechless for the most part. Much of the time he was steamrollered by his own client. Could not get a word in edgeways. BB was on a mission to speak and not be interrupted, to give information he had not been asked for.

That is my very general synopsis, I'll add more shortly about some of BB's testimony that doesn't seem to have made it into the papers, and other posts last night I didn't get around to answering.

 

[cottonweaver]

thank you Tortoise

even his QC is speechless at some of it. Blimey. Is Icah definitely male? I wasn't sure

I am pretty speechless about him saying he has made up sickness absence for Ellie's school in order to spend time with her. I said he was a con man but blimey, that's quite creative but again the hard medical evidence trounces his excuse.

JG is blowing kisses to her family! ( She did this with BB at the pre trial hearings etc) She is out on bail, not incarcerated - she can meet them for coffee afterwards - so this is just part of her big show. Act for an audience.

IMO she has a PD also and this is part of the issue with her connivance. Has she actually laid a hand on her own daughter as well - I really DK.

 

[Tortoise]

Thanks for this Tortoise, loads of interesting things there and great to get your impressions. He didn't really lose it did he - it's what I expected. Maybe Tuesday/Wednesday will be different under cross. So he can manage some self control if he wants to.

So he threw JG under the bus - to some extent.
Pretty disgusting he is using the sneaky "we argued by text" strategy, as posted previously.

He has had 3 years to prepare this narrative, with little else to think of in jail and he is at his "best" when he's allowed to work with his QC

- let's hope this is all undermined when the prosecution deal with him.

Do you think he was enjoying it Tortoise , once he got into his stride? Would you say he seemed calculating? A good actor?

The thing that struck me re. his 2012 interviews is that before Ellie came back to them he reiterated that he said that he wondered if it was actually too late for Ellie to start with a new set of parents. (I can paste it up if it doesn't breach any restrictions.)

Under cross I think we will see more loss of control. He was teetering yesterday - there is a very fine line between displaying righteous controlled anger and losing control, his testimony went largely unchallenged, (as you would expect in evidence in chief) he was being supported by his QC, but even then he reacted quite badly to 'friendly' suggestions intended to be helpful and steer him, that he had been accused of being volatile and unjustifiably aggressive.

It depends on the abilities of the prosecutor really. I think the prosecutor will need to be very wily - really get into his psyche. He will need to understand that to successfully prosecute the case, the jury will be under the same pressures I was under yesterday to make sense of BB. That the evidence has to speak louder than the performance, the act. I think it will. Somehow or other he is going to have to understand that he is dealing with a master manipulator, take the wind out of his sails, and make the jury see what is playing out. I don't underestimate them, or overestimate my own powers of perception, but it just worries me that he seems to have some sort of a skill for putting himself over as frank and honest and admitting his faults, which seems to be a good cover for hiding a severe sadistic mental disorder, IMO. Obviously psychiatric diagnoses would require cooperation and probably conviction though.

The problem is that the jury is not there to decide if he was guilty in 2007, but it seems to have taken centre stage in this trial. I don't think it should because his exoneration carries quite a bit of weight. But then again if it was left out, this trial wouldn't really be fair, because BB could claim the jury were not aware of the strains he had been under for years, and why there were other historical skull fractures and brain bleeds.

Something else he played on a lot was the way he worked so hard to educate himself on the medical evidence, before he was exonerated. This lambs to the slaughter business. How he wouldn't really sleep and would get out of bed at 3 in the morning not only reading about brains and brain injuries but initially learning how to read and write as well, all driven by his love for his girls.

Yes he came over as always acting in their best interests, always considering their needs uppermost. He spoke of working tirelessly with the foster parents to learn their routines. Getting up to take 2 or 3 buses at 5 in the morning to get there in time for breakfast and learning how to prepare a bowl of cocopops, and then all that bus journey back home again, and then doing the same to learn lunch time and bedtime routines.

And then there was the Christmas they were all together, their first ever Christmas as a family, how he let the girls decorate the tree and stayed up until 2am wrapping presents, too many presents, because he noticed they weren't really that interested in all of them.

 

[Tortoise]

thank you Tortoise

even his QC is speechless at some of it. Blimey. Is Icah definitely male? I wasn't sure

I am pretty speechless about him saying he has made up sickness absence for Ellie's school in order to spend time with her. I said he was a con man but blimey, that's quite creative but again the hard medical evidence trounces his excuse.

JG is blowing kisses to her family! ( She did this with BB at the pre trial hearings etc) She is out on bail, not incarcerated - she can meet them for coffee afterwards - so this is just part of her big show. Act for an audience.

IMO she has a PD also and this is part of the issue with her connivance. Has she actually laid a hand on her own daughter as well - I really DK.

Yes, he's definitely male.

There was a female barrister acting for him one day last week but she is his sidekick.

Blowing kisses at his family, not hers. I don't think she speaks to hers.

 

[Tortoise]

So, starting from the night they met.

BB was in a bar or a club (mid-March 2006) and JG and her brother were sitting nearby on bar stools, when her brother keeled over backwards because he was drunk, and landed on the floor. BB went over with a mate to help him up and he got chatting to JG. She didn't tell him it was her brother he only found out afterwards, because she was too embarrassed apparently. They exchanged telephone numbers and left separately.

When he got home JG rang him and asked if she could come round to his place. She got a taxi over and they spent the rest of the night together.

He saw her a couple of times after that but they weren't 'seeing each other' then one night he was out with a mate and had left his phone at home. When he got home there were 157 missed calls from her in the one night. He said to his mate if he didn't know better he'd think she was a stalker. (tried to get a laugh out of court). His mate suggested she was pregnant. BB called her and she said she had to see him, he asked her if she was pregnant and she said she had to see him in person. She came over and told him she was pregnant.

They remained living separately and he said it was her choice if she kept the baby, even though he didn't think he was ready for parenthood at 26. His own father had left his mother before he was born, and had put pressure on her to have a termination, and he didn't think it was right to do that. He did not find out his step-father wasn't his real father until he was 18. Ellie was due on Christmas Day and was born on 30th Dec 2006. I think that puts her conception date to end of March roughly. She took scan pictures to show him and he started to become more interested. He chose Ellie's name.

After the incident in Feb 2007 when Ellie was 6 weeks old, he went to the hospital every day to see Ellie. Then she was put into care, with a foster parent initially and then later JG's parents became her legal guardians.

That was his suggestion but then he didn't know (because JG hadn't thought of mentioning it) that JG had such a bad relationship with her father. I don't think she was on speaking terms with him.

 

[Tortoise]

Second baby came along, also unplanned, conceived before his conviction, born just after his release.

They kept it a secret from the authorities because of Ellie's care order. JG registered for antenatal care and birth under a different name (previously married name) in a different area and didn't register the father's name.

Someone tipped off the authorities and second baby was taken away at 6 and a half months old.

DNA test was taken and sibling and Ellie were thought due to an error to be half-sisters, different fathers.

JG did her own private DNA testing on access visits (because BB said he wasn't going to fight for a child that wasn't his) and they discovered BB was the father of both, but they didn't tell the authorities until 2012 because they thought if they knew child was his it would increase the chances of child 2 being adopted more quickly.

 

[Tortoise]

back later

 

[Gigi-G]

Thank you Tortoise for years invaluable references. Have family here gardening ponding cutting strimming. Will read it in its entirety later.. tc ttyl x

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[Tortoise]

Third unplanned pregnancy in early 2011 (failed contraception according to BB), about 10 months after child 2 was taken into care.

I wasn't clear whether it was JG's sole decision or a joint decision to terminate the pregnancy. He was adamant though that they could not go through it all again, after losing child 2.

There were complications around this termination, and not all of the remains were removed, meaning JG had to be readmitted to hospital. BB said they feared it had left JG infertile.

BB apologised from the stand to JG sitting in the dock "Sorry Jen for talking about your personal stuff". Good display of empathy there for the jury I thought.


BB didn't get that far into his testimony yesterday, but we know from the text messages in evidence that JG became pregnant again in 2013, about a month after getting the children back. This was to be a repeat of the events of 2011, down to the botched termination and bleeding, and staying in hospital for investigations for other health concerns.

 

[Legally Bland]

Thank you Tortoise.

 

[Tortoise]

"The judge gave him a lot of leeway but even he lost it towards the end of the day and raised his voice to tell him to stop while he spoke to the barrister."

What precipitated that?

BB's barrister produced an MRI scan of Ellie's head and upper airways evidently without having cleared it with the court first. He passed it to BB and asked him about it. BB said it was the scan that his solicitors had discovered that had been apparently lost. I'm not sure when and at what stage he said it had been produced to his solicitors, but I think (I'm guessing) it must have been after his conviction. It showed a cyst at the base of her tongue. He started to tell the court that this was responsible for Ellie's collapse and the bleeding was caused by the traumatic birth (venthouse delivery) and began ranting that the scan had been hidden from them blah blah...

The judge shut him down and that's the point where he said I won't be muzzled..the judge had to ask him repeatedly to stop. He queried whether the jury might need to be sent out while they discussed the issue because he was concerned that it would cause big problems for the trial. Peart QC said that the only purpose in producing the scan was to ask BB how he felt when the scan was discovered. Judge asked Ed Brown QC (prosecution) if he had any objections to that and he confirmed he was ok only in so far as what Peart QC had submitted. Judge said unequivocally to BB that he would not permit BB to be his own expert and give his own medical opinion to the jury about what had caused Ellie's collapse and that he must only stick to answering the questions he was asked.

 

[Gigi-G]

BB's barrister produced an MRI scan of Ellie's head and upper airways evidently without having cleared it with the court first. He passed it to BB and asked him about it. BB said it was the scan that his solicitors had discovered that had been apparently lost. I'm not sure when and at what stage he said it had been produced to his solicitors, but I think (I'm guessing) it must have been after his conviction. It showed a cyst at the base of her tongue. He started to tell the court that this was responsible for Ellie's collapse and the bleeding was caused by the traumatic birth (venthouse delivery) and began ranting that the scan had been hidden from them blah blah...

The judge shut him down and that's the point where he said I won't be muzzled..the judge had to ask him repeatedly to stop. He queried whether the jury might need to be sent out while they discussed the issue because he was concerned that it would cause big problems for the trial. Peart QC said that the only purpose in producing the scan was to ask BB how he felt when the scan was discovered. Judge asked Ed Brown QC (prosecution) if he had any objections to that and he confirmed he was ok only in so far as what Peart QC had submitted. Judge said unequivocally to BB that he would not permit BB to be his own expert and give his own medical opinion to the jury about what had caused Ellie's collapse and that he must only stick to answering the questions he was asked.

Ellie mri scan. Cyst circled

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[cottonweaver]

Open mouthed here on some aspects of you reportage, new twists. For example:

From Tortoise's posts:

Blowing kisses at his family, not hers.
How he wouldn't really sleep and would get out of bed at 3 in the morning not only reading about brains and brain injuries but initially learning how to read and write
Getting up to take 2 or 3 buses at 5 in the morning to get there in time for breakfast and learning how to prepare a bowl of cocopops, and then all that bus journey back home again, and then doing the same to learn lunch time and bedtime routines.
he was being supported by his QC, but even then he reacted quite badly to 'friendly' suggestions intended to be helpful and steer him, that he had been accused of being volatile and unjustifiably aggressive.*
From JG - 157 missed calls from her in the one night.*

The volatility example is promising, I hope the Prosc QC does successfully rile him, he makes some big mistakes and goes off script badly and the jury see him for what he really is, as you have said you have concerns when you look at it from the jury's point of view.

These sorts of things are worrying , from your posts, whether it's impact on jury or implications:

- The problem is that the jury is not there to decide if he was guilty in 2007, but it seems to have taken centre stage in this trial.
-BB apologised from the stand to JG sitting in the dock "Sorry Jen for talking about your personal stuff". Good display of empathy there for the jury I thought.
-Peart QC said that the only purpose in producing the scan was to ask BB how he felt when the scan was discovered.

Glad judge knows his job and you had faith in him eg.

Judge said unequivocally to BB that he would not permit BB to be his own expert and give his own medical opinion to the jury about what had caused Ellie's collapse and that he must only stick to answering the questions he was asked.

I bet you are glad you went now, despite your initial concerns.

 

[Tortoise]

There was another point where the judge commented to BB, in quite a revealing manner.

Peart QC produced a drawing that Ellie had done around about July 2013. The drawing was of a man and a woman, beautifully coloured in, with a big red love-heart between their heads. He passed it to BB. I can't remember the question he put to BB, with the drawing.

BB said the picture was of Mummy and Daddy (to which the judge was very quick off the mark to say - and in which I detected a certain amount of cynicism - "that's not exactly clear, it is in your opinion") and they were dressed up ready to go out somewhere special.

 

[cottonweaver]

There was another point where the judge commented to BB, in quite a revealing manner.

Peart QC produced a drawing that Ellie had done around about July 2013. The drawing was of a man and a woman, beautifully coloured in, with a big red love-heart between their heads. He passed it to BB. I can't remember the question he put to BB, with the drawing.

BB said the picture was of Mummy and Daddy (to which the judge was very quick off the mark to say - and in which I detected a certain amount of cynicism - "that's not exactly clear, it is in your opinion") and they were dressed up ready to go out somewhere special.

Thankyou for these extra snippets. Yes he is sharp isn't he. That sort of intervention will help the jury. I hope.
He sickens me again Tortoise- I was getting blase about him. But using the dead child's drawing to prove Ellie's love and thus his innocence - all so callous when I think of her non-stop beatings. ( Contrast the july drawing and his july texts- pasted at bottom of this page)

The biggest thing I take away from your experience is the point about how the jury will see it and the sympathy he is generating for 2007. They aren't necessarily Websleuthers types with good B.S. detectors and they can't discuss as they go along can they - they have to wait til close.

Did you notice if the jury were taking notes and looked "on it" - appreciate that is a difficult question

Surprised he had supportive family members there TBH - i expected him to have had a violent upbringing and them to now have fractured relationships.

How was JG looking - teed off with his "157 calls" and "mad" references- looking surprised or playing along with a joint script.

July 19h friday text: BB to JG "Woke up I'm in a rage already... My hands are shaking... One more mistake I'm going to lose it..."

 

[Tortoise]

I bet you are glad you went now, despite your initial concerns.

To be honest I was terrified of him having a violent outburst. I've seen that in court before, (a different case) and I'm not too good around violent people, it really upsets me.

When we got there and were waiting in the corridor outside the security guy came to talk to us. He said as you know the defendant had an outburst in court the other day, if he lets off on one today we will shout 'clear the gallery' and you must vacate immediately. I had visions of myself falling to the floor and crawling out in case he leapt up to the gallery like a monkey

 

[Tortoise]

Thankyou for these extra snippets. Yes he is sharp isn't he. That sort of intervention will help the jury. I hope.
He sickens me again Tortoise- I was getting blase about him. But using the dead child's drawing to prove Ellie's love and thus his innocence - all so callous when I think of her non-stop beatings.

The biggest thing I take away from your experience is the point about how the jury will see it and the sympathy he is generating for 2007. They aren't necessarily Websleuthers types with good B.S. detectors and they can't discuss as they go along can they - they have to wait til close.

Did you notice if the jury were taking notes and looked "on it" - appreciate that is a difficult question

Surprised he had supportive family members there TBH - i expected him to have had a violent upbringing and them to now have fractured relationships.

How was JG looking - teed off with his "157 calls" and "mad" references- looking surprised or playing along with a joint script.

I think the jury are 'on it' indeed. I've seen some real scrutinising stares (if that is a proper word - spell check doesn't like it) at him, and I've seen 12 deadpan faces to his making light of situations.

No violent upbringing. I wonder how he felt at finding out his real father had rejected him.

He said he left home at 13 to live in London (his family lived in Cambridgeshire). No explanation given for leaving home so young. I'm wondering about youth detention? That is pure speculation btw.

In those instances where he spoke down about JG she stopped nodding along. That's all I can say really, she seemed to just observe him without giving anything away. There is another example he gave of JG's behaviour.

In Jan 2013 (when the texts showed their difficulties) he said JG went really mad, he had never seen anything like it before. She rejected Ellie completely. Ellie took her a picture she'd made and she just threw it aside and said 'leave me alone, just go to your room'.

BB said that made him really angry, because of how important a time it was for the children settling in and the losses they were feeling for their previous carers. Another nod to good empathising skills there.

 

[cottonweaver]

To be honest I was terrified of him having a violent outburst. I've seen that in court before, (a different case) and I'm not too good around violent people, it really upsets me.

When we got there and were waiting in the corridor outside the security guy came to talk to us. He said as you know the defendant had an outburst in court the other day, if he lets off on one today we will shout 'clear the gallery' and you must vacate immediately. I had visions of myself falling to the floor and crawling out in case he leapt up to the gallery like a monkey :D

BIB :scared:That is too funny - nice to have some levity in such a grim case though..
I can't even watch someone throw a drunken punch on a Saturday night in the city - even that upsets me BUT when it comes to devious bullies like him I can front it out even if I would even end up getting whacked. :facepalm:

UL - so they were ready for him and were going to make a big deal of it if he started ranting again. Would that be to show him how seriously they took it, do you reckon?

 

[Tortoise]

Couple more snippets and then I think that's it from me, for a little while I'll let others do some talking 'cos I appreciate it can get boring hearing from one poster all the time and it's good to get other perspectives.

He said the whole time that they lived in this place (they moved there specifically for Ellie's return because the old place wasn't big enough for two children) he and JG never shared a bedroom. He slept on the couch.

He was at quite some pains to point out that they weren't ever together as such in a relationship. They had been thrown together by their situation and by their joint battle for the children, but he didn't consider them to be a couple. He considered them to be together only to be parents to the children.

That is really quite odd and it leads me back again to a personality disorder, a problem in forming bonds/relationships.

Child no. 2 is subject now to a permanent care order made last year. Removed from them straight away after Ellie's death.

Other point I wanted to make was about his previous convictions. These were presented to the jury the other day when I was in court.

First assault was 2004 outside a nightclub. He assaulted a man (was it GBH? not sure) and said he was acting in self defence. (This was the one where the psychologist currently in hospital did a report on him, which he says is now out of date). He admitted when viewing the CCTV of the incident that it didn't look like the other guy was attacking or going to attack him.

Another assault in 2010 (after children taken into care) in a kebab shop. He and JG ran out and got into a taxi which was stopped after being pursued by police. He said the guy had touched up his girlfriend, to which JG nodded vigorously. That is the day BB was absent from the dock.

Two other assaults on his ex-girlfriend Hannah Hillman in 2005, as reported fully in MSM.

I do believe there are a few more convictions that the jury has not been apprised of.

 

[flutterby]

http://www.gardencourtchambers.co.uk/barrister/icah-peart-qc/

Was just reading upon Icah Peart. I have to say, if I'm ever facing a murder trial, I think I want him to defend me

(be back later to comment more)