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A link would be handy, thanks in advance.
UK - (Former prince) Andrew Mountbatten-Windsor accused of underage sexual relationship, 1999-2002 *settled* #2
- Thread starter zwiebel
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I posted the info in #1306
same link as upthread:
“It Was Catastrophic”: Inside Prince Andrew’s Misguided Bid to Explain Away Epstein
In the wake of Jeffrey Epstein’s arrest and apparent suicide, Prince Andrew moved from the fringe of a swirling underage-sex scandal toward its white-hot center. His clumsy attempt to clear his name, in a no-holds-barred interview with BBC ‘Newsnight,’ set the stage for his royal demotion—and...
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I suspect I know the issue that the Met is not quite saying (because it sounds both gross and very much not PR friendly.) They did speak to Virginia. She gave them a full account... and by her account Andrew didn't commit an offence in the UK under the UK laws of the time. (America is a different story, hence the big hints at American law enforcement.)
A year or two later and he absolutely would have, but this was 2001. Pre-Sexual Offences Act (2002), Asylum and Immigration Act (2004) and the Modern Slavery Act (2015).
They are working with the Sexual Offences Act 1956. Which is mainly aimed at pimps/brothals, not john's. Having sex with a 16/17 year old, even paying/knowing she was being paid 15k, was not illegal. The trafficking and prostiution offences would have been on Epstien/Maxwell.
The law at the time narrowly defined coercion as threats, intimidation, deception, or stupification. Which, unless I am remembering wrong, is not the kind of coercion Virginia alleged. She was also under orders to appear 'willing' and by her own account suceeded according to Maxwell, which itself undermines any argument that Andrew reasonably knew she was not consenting.
Well having written that out I feel like I need a shower. It should go without saying that, technically criminal or not, Andrew deserves every bit of his disgrace and any charges they can find to stick him with.
A year or two later and he absolutely would have, but this was 2001. Pre-Sexual Offences Act (2002), Asylum and Immigration Act (2004) and the Modern Slavery Act (2015).
They are working with the Sexual Offences Act 1956. Which is mainly aimed at pimps/brothals, not john's. Having sex with a 16/17 year old, even paying/knowing she was being paid 15k, was not illegal. The trafficking and prostiution offences would have been on Epstien/Maxwell.
The law at the time narrowly defined coercion as threats, intimidation, deception, or stupification. Which, unless I am remembering wrong, is not the kind of coercion Virginia alleged. She was also under orders to appear 'willing' and by her own account suceeded according to Maxwell, which itself undermines any argument that Andrew reasonably knew she was not consenting.
Well having written that out I feel like I need a shower. It should go without saying that, technically criminal or not, Andrew deserves every bit of his disgrace and any charges they can find to stick him with.
Sexual Offences Act 1956
*Note 'procure' does not mean 'buy' it means arrange, i.e the pimp not the john. Epstein/Maxwell would be guilty of a numerous offences.
Section 30
“It is an offence for any person to procure or attempt to procure any woman by threats or intimidation to have unlawful sexual intercourse either within or without the United Kingdom.”
Section 31
“It is an offence for any person to procure or attempt to procure any woman by false pretences or false representations to have unlawful sexual intercourse either within or without the United Kingdom.”
Section 32
“It is an offence for any person to apply, administer to, or cause to be taken by any woman or girl any drug, matter or thing with intent thereby to stupefy or overpower her so as thereby to enable any person to have unlawful sexual intercourse with her.”
*Note 'procure' does not mean 'buy' it means arrange, i.e the pimp not the john. Epstein/Maxwell would be guilty of a numerous offences.
Section 30
“It is an offence for any person to procure or attempt to procure any woman by threats or intimidation to have unlawful sexual intercourse either within or without the United Kingdom.”
Section 31
“It is an offence for any person to procure or attempt to procure any woman by false pretences or false representations to have unlawful sexual intercourse either within or without the United Kingdom.”
Section 32
“It is an offence for any person to apply, administer to, or cause to be taken by any woman or girl any drug, matter or thing with intent thereby to stupefy or overpower her so as thereby to enable any person to have unlawful sexual intercourse with her.”
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Maxwell could unlock all of this but for some reason she won’t. It’s almost as though she will go to her grave without saying anything for her protection of Epstein. It’s like she will remain loyal to him forever because she gave him her word and undying love.
Why else would she hold on? She could have had a lighter sentence but she won’t budge. I would have said the truth to keep me from a longer sentence. That is human nature, we see it all the time.
Why else would she hold on? She could have had a lighter sentence but she won’t budge. I would have said the truth to keep me from a longer sentence. That is human nature, we see it all the time.
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This is interesting. Giuffre admits that she brought girls, whom she calls children, to Epstein knowing that they be used for one purpose alone.
Pyramid schemes usually mean that each person in the pyramid hierarchy is paid ... from the child, to the person who brought the child to Epstein, to Maxwell.
Did Giuffre face charges for procuring?
"The programme showed footage of Ms Giuffre speaking during an interview with the Miami Herald, in which she said:
page 6
Pyramid schemes usually mean that each person in the pyramid hierarchy is paid ... from the child, to the person who brought the child to Epstein, to Maxwell.
Did Giuffre face charges for procuring?
"The programme showed footage of Ms Giuffre speaking during an interview with the Miami Herald, in which she said:
“It kind of works like a pyramid scheme, Ghislaine brought me in, I brought other girls in, those girls brought other girls in and no matter what Jeffrey constantly had that open revolving door of young women, young teenagers, children I like to call them, coming through his door for one purpose and one purpose alone”.
page 6
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Even when Virginia went to Thailand for the massage course (and then met her husband and never returned to Epstein and Maxwell) they wanted her to find a specific Thai girl for Epstein. Virginia felt she was finally (mostly) free so she didn't even bother looking for the girl. Though, when Maxwell called her in Thailand, Virginia said she was looking for the girl.
Virginia says that the only thing she felt that she could do about the procuring was be honest with the girls ... tell them they would be given $200-$300 by Epstein but he would expect explicit "favours". Instead of giving them the usual line by the other procurers that the girls would be taught massage.
Epstein went through a lot of young girls because he wanted "services" three times a day.
Source: Nobody's Girl by Virginia Roberts Giuffre
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Are we assuming that this book is nothing but the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth or that it may also be considered a ‘good read’?
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It is the other side of the story. From Virginia's perspective. After years of living with the physical nightmares, undergoing counselling (psychologist), and having a daughter that she wants protected from predators.
People can believe what they want to believe, but the content seems honest. Virginia doesn't shy away from the things she did. She had just spent years trying to work out why.
I hope Ghislaine Maxwell reads the book.
imo
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Hyphenating a last name is a legal name change
and requires a formal process to complete.
But
He was given such surname at birth, no?
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Timeline
March 2001: Giuffre met Andrew in London
August 2001: Giuffre turned 18 years of age
2001-2002: Giuffre brought "children" to Epstein to be abused
September 2002: Giuffre, age 19, met husband in Thailand
September 2002: Epstein told Giuffre "have a good life", Giuffre moved to Australia
Over a period of 18 months, Giuffre met Andrew, she recruited "children" to be abused by Epstein, she moved to Australia with Epstein's blessing.
"The programme showed footage of Ms Giuffre speaking during an interview with the Miami Herald, in which she said:
“It kind of works like a pyramid scheme, Ghislaine brought me in, I brought other girls in, those girls brought other girls in and no matter what Jeffrey constantly had that open revolving door of young women,young teenagers, children I like to call them, coming through his door for one purpose and one purpose alone”.
ofcom.org transcript"The 41-year-old chronicled her initial romantic encounters with Robert Giuffre at the age of 19 in a self-penned memoir - The Billionaire's Playboy Club - dedicated to her 'true love Robbie who believes in me every step of the way'.
...
'Finally a few seconds later his reaction to the news sunk in and [Epstein's] only and final reply until many years to come was, "Have a good life!"
DailyMail
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Until now, I thought that Giuffre and Andrew met long before she was able to escape Epstein's alleged coercive control. I am surprised that, at the same time that Giuffre claims to be acting without free will, she was recruiting children for Epstein as part of a paid pyramid scheme. Eighteen months later, while on a paid study-vacation in Thailand, she parted ways with Epstein by simply telling him that she was moving on. His only response was to wish her a good life.
For some reason, I thought the events of 18 months occurred over several years - in part because documentation about coercive control and trafficking suggests that leaving those associations is extremely difficult.
For some reason, I thought the events of 18 months occurred over several years - in part because documentation about coercive control and trafficking suggests that leaving those associations is extremely difficult.
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"With perfect clarity, I simply knew that I couldn’t agree to their proposal. That said, I also knew I couldn’t just tell Epstein and Maxwell no. That was too dangerous. For the first time in more than two years, I began actively seeking a way to escape, buying time by pretending to think over their offer."
"Ultimately, Giuffre agreed — on the condition that the couple finally make good on their promise to put her through professional masseuse training."
"Epstein sent her to the International Training Massage School in Thailand."
nypost.com
"Ultimately, Giuffre agreed — on the condition that the couple finally make good on their promise to put her through professional masseuse training."
"Epstein sent her to the International Training Massage School in Thailand."
Maxwell, Epstein pleaded for Virginia Giuffre to ‘have our baby’ — prompting teen to hatch escape plan: memoir
“There was no way I wanted to bring a child into the world for them to raise.”
nypost.com
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More from Epstein about Andrew, Giuffre:
"A photograph of Andrew Mountbatten-Windsor with his arm around 17-year-old Virginia Roberts Giuffre was real, according to newly-released emails sent by Jeffrey Epstein, which undermine Andrew’s claim it may have been faked.
Andrew claimed in his interview on Newsnight in 2019 that he had no recollection of the infamous photograph ever being taken and suggested it may have been doctored.
But a tranche of emails published by the US House Oversight Committee on Wednesday appears to undermine his claims. In a 2011 email, Epstein, who is alleged to have taken the picture, appeared to tell a journalist: “Yes she [Giuffre] was on my plane, and yes she had her picture taken with Andrew.”
...
The documents also seem to show that Andrew told Epstein “I can’t take any more of this my end”, as the scandal began to engulf the royal family. Andrew has strenuously denied allegations of any wrongdoing.
...
The three emails released by the Democrats seem to show Epstein claiming a victim — later identified as Giuffre — “spent several hours” with Trump at Epstein’s residence.
...
In one email correspondence from 2016, Epstein appears to thank Mandelson for advice on distancing himself from Andrew.
...
In July of 2011, Epstein told his publicist Peggy Siegal to investigate the “liar” Giuffre over claims she was forced to have sex with Andrew"
www.thetimes.com
"A newly released email from disgraced late financier and sex offender Jeffrey Epstein, referencing Trump"
"A photograph of Andrew Mountbatten-Windsor with his arm around 17-year-old Virginia Roberts Giuffre was real, according to newly-released emails sent by Jeffrey Epstein, which undermine Andrew’s claim it may have been faked.
Andrew claimed in his interview on Newsnight in 2019 that he had no recollection of the infamous photograph ever being taken and suggested it may have been doctored.
But a tranche of emails published by the US House Oversight Committee on Wednesday appears to undermine his claims. In a 2011 email, Epstein, who is alleged to have taken the picture, appeared to tell a journalist: “Yes she [Giuffre] was on my plane, and yes she had her picture taken with Andrew.”
...
The documents also seem to show that Andrew told Epstein “I can’t take any more of this my end”, as the scandal began to engulf the royal family. Andrew has strenuously denied allegations of any wrongdoing.
...
The three emails released by the Democrats seem to show Epstein claiming a victim — later identified as Giuffre — “spent several hours” with Trump at Epstein’s residence.
...
In one email correspondence from 2016, Epstein appears to thank Mandelson for advice on distancing himself from Andrew.
...
In July of 2011, Epstein told his publicist Peggy Siegal to investigate the “liar” Giuffre over claims she was forced to have sex with Andrew"
Epstein email claims Andrew photo is real
Released files appear to show Andrew Mountbatten-Windsor telling Jeffrey Epstein he ‘can’t take any more of this’ as the scandal began to engulf the royal family
www.thetimes.com
"A newly released email from disgraced late financier and sex offender Jeffrey Epstein, referencing Trump"
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