GUILTY UK - Helen Bailey, 51, Royston, 11 April 2016 #2

[Joely 123]

Sounds like they're trying to prove that Helen's symptoms had started before IS got the sleeping tablet prescription, but of course he may have been using his 2010 stash first and only gone to get another prescription when they ran out.

But wasn't it said by the Pathologists at the beginning of the trial (Post Mortem) that in Helen's hair - Zopiclone showed she could have been drugged as early as December 2015.

Edited to add further information.

Dr Piper said 'I cannot state or suggest quantities taken other than this approximate (three month) time period.

And followed with .."A very low level of Zopiclone was found in Helen's hair from early December, 2015 but this could be due to 'Axial Diffusion'.

 

[Cherwell]

He said: “She wanted to stay in London but she wanted to live with me".

But he made sure he got his way.

“In London she knew one person, whereas here she had five people she could call on, which she couldn’t do in London."

This makes no sense to me. Helen had lived in London for many years, she must have known lots of people. And by her own admission she wasn't the type who needs constant companionship anyway, she was comfortable with her own company.

 

[Squamous]

I think it was kept secret at Helen's insistence but I have a big red flag for anyone who puts their partner in the position of having to accept or decline a proposal only a year or so after the death of their partner of 22 years.

 

[Cherwell]

Not necessarily, it may have been kept secret at Helen insistence ...

I think some members here seem very personally invested and are viewing everything as though Helen were their best friend ... I understand this to a point but, it does a disservice to see Stewart as 'Evil' and purely the 'bad guy' and Helen as a poor deceived saint. For many years she was, by every account we've heard, very happy with Ian, despite whether anyone here thinks he's too common, too scruffy, too uneducated. For all that time, he was enough for Helen and for all we know to this point, he wasn't abusive or controlling, all we've heard so far regarding his character is that he was a lovely bloke ... whilst it is certainly looking very much like an open and shut case, not every murderer is a psychopath or a sociopath, it's impossible for anyone here to know the full facts or make a diagnosis from 140 character tweets.

This is real life, not a TV show or novel.

I think the difference here is that so much of Helen's thoughts and feelings are on public record, so we know much more about what made her tick than is usual with a murder victim.

And how anyone can possibly defend him after what he's done is beyond me. His lies about the note is enough to dispel any doubt on that score. Just for a start.

 

[ColourPurple]

BIB

WOW this must have been very soon after they made contact. He was in a hurry wasn't he! Maybe he didn't want anyone else to snap her up and remove the "future lifestyle" from his grasp.

He asked her to marry him a year after they met . If the intention was to marry her to get to her money, then since the time of his proposal Helen had made sure he would be looked after financially even without marrying her, so I wonder if he now really couldn't see the point in marrying her.

 

[Squamous]

I think the difference here is that so much of Helen's thoughts and feelings are on public record, so we know much more about what made her tick than is usual with a murder victim.

Yes, and I can agree that I feel a bit like I knew her personally (the gift she had for writing). But also, part of this has to be looking for clues. Yes, everyone says IS is a lovely man, yes HB loved him and was happy with him, as far as we know (and we know quite a lot). But lovely people in happy relationships don't then drug their partner over months and shove them in a cesspit - there must be more to this story. Unless the more in question is in fact Nick and Joe and IS is telling the truth, in which case I accept the point.

 

[cottonweaver]

WTF is wrong with that conservatory anyway?

Ha! I do wonder if he wanted something better?

Going back to his kinetic contraptions hobby I wonder if he had or wanted a work space at home or wished to gravitate to a studio. ( Just in ref to his Skycic blog where he mentions, Arts, Crafts,and rather pretentiously "Influences".....)

 

[Squamous]

There was something about the planners drawing the conservatory wrong - though if it's been there since 1910 then it's taken a while to notice!

Lots of past tense in the interview, though I suppose it was a few weeks after she had "gone".

 

[DollyDiamond]

Witnessed by Ant and Dec... I mean Nick and Joe. It would be hilarious if it weren't so tragic and so horribly cruel.

 

[Alyce]

Kate Bradbrook ‏@katebradbrook 32m32 minutes ago

About to go live @BBCLookEast outside St Albans Crown Court with latest on #helenbailey case


ETA ..... sorry everyone, think Kate may be getting a bit ahead of herself, the scheduled timing was 2.30pm for the restart

 

[DollyDiamond]

Of course he did. After all it was quite a hilarious situation (not!)

Cracked some jokes? When he knew what he had done to Helen and Boris and knew precisely where their bodies lay? Yet again, this pitiful excuse for a human being leaves me dumbfounded.

 

[mrazda71]

I think the difference here is that so much of Helen's thoughts and feelings are on public record, so we know much more about what made her tick than is usual with a murder victim.

And how anyone can possibly defend him after what he's done is beyond me. His lies about the note is enough to dispel any doubt on that score. Just for a start.

I haven't at any point 'defended' Ian at all. Not once. This is websleuth not MumsNet though ... the thread has got a bit 'ooh the cad, he's just pure evil' ... to just say 'he's evil' is to portray him as some character from a plot, as if just by hearing his voice or knowing what brand of underpants he wears is an obvious sign that he was 'always a wrong 'un' when in actual fact, he's just a man.

 

[cottonweaver]

I haven't at any point 'defended' Ian at all. Not once. This is websleuth not MumsNet though ... the thread has got a bit 'ooh the cad, he's just pure evil' ... to just say 'he's evil' is to portray him as some character from a plot, as if just by hearing his voice or knowing what brand of underpants he wears is an obvious sign that he was 'always a wrong 'un' when in actual fact, he's just a man.

I do see what you are saying - I think it's worse than any of us have imagined though mrazda and we were all following this from last year. I honestly expected some charisma, as I said pre-trial to charm this successful author but what is worse is I can't detect any sense of respect or love.

I have wondered if his lack of social skills is due to some autistic disorder( high functioning with his practical skills in the mechanisms he made) and I appreciate others have said sociopathy. I'm not really up on the subtleties of mental health classifications but surely he has to have some degree of psychopathy to do what he has done?

 

[Florrie]

I haven't at any point 'defended' Ian at all. Not once. This is websleuth not MumsNet though ... the thread has got a bit 'ooh the cad, he's just pure evil' ... to just say 'he's evil' is to portray him as some character from a plot, as if just by hearing his voice or knowing what brand of underpants he wears is an obvious sign that he was 'always a wrong 'un' when in actual fact, he's just a man.

I think there is no doubt that Helen trusted him and was happy with him. It's something I hang on to...and they must both had have good and happy times too. It's the best that can be said for the whole thing..she had some happy times with him.

He's complex though and I need to read much more about sociopathy and psychopathy.

The fact he was drugging her (allegedly) and shows some signs of abuse invokes strong feelings though.

And I have been very taken by the descriptions of him as a lovely man. It almost beggars belief that he could do the things he is accused of. And yet that evidence is worrying.



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[tlcya]

:stop:

Some posts have been removed. You are here to discuss the case and not your views on one another.

 

[Alyce]

There was something about the planners drawing the conservatory wrong - though if it's been there since 1910 then it's taken a while to notice!

Lots of past tense in the interview, though I suppose it was a few weeks after she had "gone".

My take is that it is a modern * add on * ......

Would be interesting to know what the actual problem was.

It was there when Helen bought the house so it's at least 6 years or more in situ.
Most likely idea seems to be what Cotton has said - IS ( or even Helen ) wanted something different and this flagged up a problem with the original design/structure ?

 

[Florrie]

I haven't at any point 'defended' Ian at all. Not once. This is websleuth not MumsNet though ... the thread has got a bit 'ooh the cad, he's just pure evil' ... to just say 'he's evil' is to portray him as some character from a plot, as if just by hearing his voice or knowing what brand of underpants he wears is an obvious sign that he was 'always a wrong 'un' when in actual fact, he's just a man.

And as a dedicated Mumsnetter (yes indeed haha) I can tell you he would get a short shrift there indeed. However I also know that the thread would rapidly be deleted and no discussion allowed until the outcome of the trial was known. That's why I am LOVING this site because sensible discussion of the reported facts is going ahead.


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[pinklilies]

IS did mention the roof of the conservatory was leaking.

 

[Squamous]

Ah, I see, it might be that the planners drew some new work wrongly.

 

[Joely 123]

Going back to Helen's hair analysis - when I remembered something being said at the beginning of the trial.
I have found Dr. Piper's comments (sorry not copy and paste) "I cannot state or suggest quantities taken other than this approximate (three month) time period."

Dr Piper - "A very low level of Zopiclone was found in Helen's hair from early December, 2015 but this could be due to 'Axial diffusion'," he added.