GUILTY UK - Helen Bailey, 51, Royston, 11 April 2016 #7

[michelle230]

I'm feeling thick today. What is the * other * IS?

Sorry if it's obvious and just me.

Yes - Islamic State (mentioned in context only

 

[Duchy]

Glad you said that, Dolly. I do tend to take people literally and after your Zopiclone experiment I wouldn't put much past you!

Talking of which......laying in bed trying to sleep last night (difficult because I had slept most of the day and missed court!) I thought about the metallic aftertaste of zopiclone. I don't think we are aware of any references to this made by Helen are we? She must have experienced it though. Anyway, it occurred to me last night that Helen may have searched on the net about 'metallic taste in mouth' and this might have been the trigger for IS to carry out the murder that day. Better to count sheep I think.

 

[Alyce]

Dolly, that is an excellent description.... Reluctant smile ..... He always looks to me as though he is very hesitant, almost a bit uncomfortable, as though he is expecting to be rumbled at any moment.

 

[DollyDiamond]

I would say yes. With MG it is important to avoid stress if at all possible to avoid worsening the disease. He seems he has, from what Michelle 230 has said, totally shut down his emotions (assuming he ever had any)

I`ve been thinking about IS attraction wise and now the subject of Jeremy Bamber has been brought up. JB was, as has been said, good looking, charismatic, charming, from a moneyed family etc etc
However IS (bear in mind different age group/audience etc) obviously had his own appeal. If we look at what we know - no-one had anything bad to say about him (look at the reaction from members - was in Facebook - when some insightful people dared to r
aise his name when Helen went missing), affable, friendly (albeit he doesn`t seem to have loyal, long term friends), apparently helpful towards women in distress (rushed to help Helen with..was it boiler problems), seemingly shared emotions with others bereaved especially bereaved women - a very potent attraction...and a very quick way to make a powerful bond (emotional bonding over shared trauma). Add to that other aspects such as the actually beautiful (had it been genuine) wording of the appeal note he wrote to the "missing" Helen. And other feigned attributes he was able to act out. Clever manipulators, including con men/people with PDs are extremely good at perceiving what goes for normal behaviour and mirroring it.
]

Great post. Absolutely, there's no question IS was skilled enough to present himself as eligible to Helen and able to offer her if not all, then many of the qualities she sought in a life partner. My point wasn't so much about a man's good looks (they are only skin deep after all - some of the most attractive men I have known have not been especially photogenic), it was more a comment about IS' persona.

He is clearly a narcissist in the clinical sense - taking another person's life for your own selfish ends is as narcissistic as it gets. But in the conventional meaning of the word, he strikes me as a man who isn't remotely interested in his physical appearance let alone proud of it. In photos he looks rather uncomfortable, inadequate and ill at ease. Doesn't strike me he would be socially adept or the kind of man a woman like Helen would be proud to accompany her to a social function. This is what fascinates me - IS a mass of contradictions.

I guess its human nature to want to learn lessons from Helen's tragedy, but as you said in your earlier, brilliant post in which you described his conduct on the stand - how can we be sure we ever really know anyone? Scary stuff - especially to a single woman like me!

Oh, just wanted to add - his ability to mimic the behaviour and emotional responses of 'normal' people only goes so far. As you described so powerfully, he has singularly failed to show anything approaching distress at Helen's death while on the stand. This is obviously a huge giveaway as to his psychopathy.

 

[MissTwiddle]

Dog walkers don't wear beige.

 

[MissTwiddle]

Talking of which......laying in bed trying to sleep last night (difficult because I had slept most of the day and missed court!) I thought about the metallic aftertaste of zopiclone. I don't think we are aware of any references to this made by Helen are we? She must have experienced it though. Anyway, it occurred to me last night that Helen may have searched on the net about 'metallic taste in mouth' and this might have been the trigger for IS to carry out the murder that day. Better to count sheep I think.

I've been thinking about that too. From what I could gather if you're one of the ones that will taste it you'll taste it even if the pills are taken whole because it's the mixing of the drug with the tummy juices that causes it. There were some tips about counteracting the taste by sipping acidic juices like orange or apple juice but I couldn't find anything definite.

It also crossed my mind that maybe a slow and steady introduction to it might just be enough to prevent that reaction but I didnt know how to begin googling for that

 

[DollyDiamond]

Glad you said that, Dolly. I do tend to take people literally and after your Zopiclone experiment I wouldn't put much past you!

I knew I was getting desperate when I put Rohypnol in my own drinks, Lol!

 

[Duchy]

Whose on the stand tomorrow - more witnesses? or was it the last of them today?

 

[Interested Bystander]

So these witnesses for the defence confirm IS to be a liar as he said that Helen almost certainly didn't walk Boris that day.

No, I think it proves the witnesses today were mistaken. Wrong clothes, wrong timing, etc. However, we have plenty of evidence that IS is a liar. Maybe, just maybe, this was true. I cannot think of a reason that would help him to claim that Boris didn't go walkies that day. Maybe I am missing something.

 

[Duchy]

I think he said Boris didn't have his morning walk.

 

[BatFace]

Dog walkers don't wear beige.

Is that the new "Dead Men Don't Wear Plaid"?

 

[ZaZara]

In the unlikely event that I'd add a Dachshund to the family, it would be a lady dog and I'd name her Electra Brown. :dance:

Very interesting day today, and thank you all once again for the posts and the ideas. I'd love to elaborate on many of them but I've got cottonwool in muy brain and stuff running down my nose - and probably a temperature too. :flu:

IMHO living off sick pay was a business model for IS, regardless of whether he could still work. The rich widow was a career move, and the wealthy freedom gained by her disappearance would have been the next step.

I wonder if he made other victims, but I guess he did not, unless he stood to gain.

 

[michelle230]

Great post. Absolutely, there's no question IS was skilled enough to present himself as eligible to Helen and able to offer her if not all, then many of the qualities she sought in a life partner. My point wasn't so much about a man's good looks (they are only skin deep after all - some of the most attractive men I have known have not been especially photogenic), it was more a comment about IS' persona.

He is clearly a narcissist in the clinical sense - taking another person's life for your own selfish ends is as narcissistic as it gets. But in the conventional meaning of the word, he strikes me as a man who isn't remotely interested in his physical appearance let alone proud of it. In photos he looks rather uncomfortable, inadequate and ill at ease. Doesn't strike me he would be socially adept or the kind of man a woman like Helen would be proud to accompany her to a social function. This is what fascinates me - IS a mass of contradictions.

I guess its human nature to want to learn lessons from Helen's tragedy, but as you said in your earlier, brilliant post in which you described his conduct on the stand - how can we be sure we ever really know anyone? Scary stuff - especially to a single woman like me!

Oh, just wanted to add - his ability to mimic the behaviour and emotional responses of 'normal' people only goes so far. As you described so powerfully, he has singularly failed to show anything approaching distress at Helen's death while on the stand. This is obviously a huge giveaway as to his psychopathy.

Lol DD
I`m with you on that one. I remarried after I lost my husband and subsequently divorced.
I have to tell you that my ex husband is/was a good looking man, comes across as modest and quite reserved (more in the "not loud" way as in the "shy" way). More to the point he had a pretty specialised, senior job in a government department - one that by the very nature of the job calls for integrity, stability and where one has to go through a battery of character and "cleanliness" tests i.e. a thoroughly above board, untainted, honest and moral individual. He retired early.
I won`t go into too much detail...ahem...alcoholism...ahem.."...if you don`t want to tell the truth about something you just lie about it" (his words!), ahem...since been diagnosed with bi-polar, ahem...was ordered to have regular visits with company psychiatrist and told me how "I know exactly what to say and what they want to hear" (again, his actual words)...and plently more ahems!!
Scare alert! I know through the community of many women who have met him on dating sites who thought all their Christmases had come at once. He * looked * the part. He really did. Luckily as he aged and worsened, he showed his colours pretty quickly and within a few months most of these women were running down the road to return their "Christmas gift" to the nearest refund centre! But the thing is that he presented * so * well and added to that, because of his job women thought that was a solid reference and a solid guarantee.
I, too was taken in and for a very long time. So many of us are. It`s scary!

 

[Joely 123]

I didn't intend to sound mean to any of them. I'm more just heavily disputing their absolute certainty. NO DOUBT etc.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Of course, you were not being mean Snoopydog - we were all disparaging towards IS's Defence - rather than those who were Witnesses - and we were picking holes in the ridiculous presentations that were used by Counsel in an attempt to defend the murderer. It was a most annoying afternoon - and an uneventful day apart from when my/our wonderful Strimmer stripped to the truth. And yes, CW, Judge Bright - dog lover and a support to the logics of the case.

 

[neteditor]

Lol DD
I`m with you on that one. I remarried after I lost my husband and subsequently divorced.
I have to tell you that my ex husband is/was a good looking man, comes across as modest and quite reserved (more in the "not loud" way as in the "shy" way). More to the point he had a pretty specialised, senior job in a government department - one that by the very nature of the job calls for integrity, stability and where one has to go through a battery of character and "cleanliness" tests i.e. a thoroughly above board, untainted, honest and moral individual. He retired early.
I won`t go into too much detail...ahem...alcoholism...ahem.."...if you don`t want to tell the truth about something you just lie about it" (his words!), ahem...since been diagnosed with bi-polar, ahem...was ordered to have regular visits with company psychiatrist and told me how "I know exactly what to say and what they want to hear" (again, his actual words)...and plently more ahems!!
Scare alert! I know through the community of many women who have met him on dating sites who thought all their Christmases had come at once. He * looked * the part. He really did. Luckily as he aged and worsened, he showed his colours pretty quickly and within a few months most of these women were running down the road to return their "Christmas gift" to the nearest refund centre! But the thing is that he presented * so * well and added to that, because of his job women thought that was a solid reference and a solid guarantee.
I, too was taken in and for a very long time. So many of us are. It`s scary!

*imagines Michelle stalking all the ex's dates cguru:

 

[michelle230]

O/T
Thank you to the person who posted on here about Jennie Grey appealing - sorry can`t remember who it was!

Just wanted to post these links as I know a few people on here followed that case:

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/nov/24/mother-ellie-butler-appeal-child-cruelty-conviction

http://www.transparencyproject.org.uk/ellie-butler-drawing-together-some-strands-and-discussion/

https://suesspiciousminds.com/tag/jennie-gray/

The second link in particular is very interesting.

Ok I`ll shut up now lol

 

[Joely 123]

[video=twitter;831516238060908545]https://twitter.com/BBC3CR/status/831516238060908545[/video]

The song springs to mind 'Every time I see Your Face'. So beautiful - and the expression in Helen's eyes truly shows her Soul x

 

[tlcya]

Thread #8 is ready for you. Please move over to it as this one will close in five minutes.

 

[BatFace]

Do you think we will have a verdict by the end of the week?

 

[cottonweaver]

Quote Originally Posted by hunkerdown View Post
Not sure there will be quite the same enthusiasm for a fat Bee Gee...

Nail on the head! That pic of him and Helen has been eating away at me for ages, thinking who he reminds me of? It was a fat BeeGee! Inspired!

........in that case it has to be IS "Jive Talkin" or the one the Barry duetted with Babara Streisand - Guilty!