GUILTY UK - Helen Bailey, 51, Royston, 11 April 2016 #9

[neteditor]

Tsk! Tsk! Net - do you mean "lady`s underwear", "ladies` underwear", "laddies underwear" or something different entirely

All of the above???

I should have said lady's you are right Michelle. Thank you

 

[neteditor]

I always thought that if you were criminally prosecuted you had your legal fees paid by right! Am I totally ignorant?

Only if you are acquitted I believe. :lookingitup:

ETA:

If you are found guilty, you may have to pay towards your defence costs from any capital assests you have. This would only apply if A. you have £30,000 or more assests for example, savings, equity in property, shares or premium bonds and B. any payments you have already made have not covered your total defence costs. You will be told at the end of your case if you have to make a payment from capital.

Quite apart from the income test, this I think is the most applicable thing in this case. His cash and assets are well above the limit.

It's very confusing and convoluted system, so here is the link for others to make an opinion. Numbers are really my weak point.


http://www.ppg-solicitors.co.uk/legal_aid.php

 

[janeh]

Unsure if this has been covered but he had actually taken out an insurance policy which covered him for 75% of his salary should he become ill (critical illness policy?)
I find this quite amazing because few people - and I certainly wouldn`t have thought that IS would be one of these few - not only think to do this as it can be very expensive, but to actually get the policy honoured as most of them have so many hidden sub clauses, that very few actually do indeed deliver the goods. And didn`t IS do amazingly well from it!

I bet they didn't expect to be paying out 20 years later. Normally critical illness is deemed as life threatening. I wonder if this illness would be covered nowadays.

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[Interested Bystander]

Might not have had it at the time he took out the CI policy

I agree. MG usually develops in one's 30's. By then he probably had an insurance that covered death or inability to work which would cover mortgage repayments and enough to cover living costs and children's education etc.

 

[michelle230]

Michelle how did he take the summing up?

As normal. Well - as normal as an abnormal person can be (confused myself with that one)
Sat pretty impassively as usual - but there are definitely times when his rapid blinking is more frequent e.g. the mention of the excrement (sorry - it`s just horrible).

 

[michelle230]

Only if you are acquitted I believe. :lookingitup:

Really? Thanks Net - I didn`t know that. So he will be left penniless?

 

[michelle230]

All of the above???

I should have said lady's you are right Michelle. Thank you

I beg to disagree Net! Include me in your original post so..."ladies`" it is lol!

 

[BatFace]

I always thought that if you were criminally prosecuted you had your legal fees paid by right! Am I totally ignorant?

I think you still have to pay if you are found guilty.


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[Interested Bystander]

MG can take many years to diagnose. For most people they suffer weakness after a cold or minor illness. Although he may not have known from what he was suffering he would be aware he was not feeling "normal". It took 10 years for me to get a diagnosis. Unfortunately GPs almost never see it and misdiagnosis is common. He knew something was wrong and wisely took out an insurance policy.

 

[Alyce]

Really? Thanks Net - I didn`t know that. So he will be left penniless?

Hartwell Lodge has increased in value since Helen bought it....so he will get 40% or thereabouts of the increase when the house is sold.

 

[neteditor]

I edited my post above with this info but sticking it on the end in case anyone misses it.

This link explains the income limit which IS would be close to anyway if he's still getting the income he was in April last year. However for me the clincher is the assets, he's well above thet £30k limit. He will have to dig into his very tight pockets for this.

http://www.ppg-solicitors.co.uk/legal_aid.php

 

[michelle230]

Didn't he also put it about that she had access to a "four figure" amount of cash that was kept in the house? To explain away why her cards were not being used, of course. So clever he thinks he is.

Yes - but I think that was right at the beginning - another little clever (not) nugget to mislead and keep the momentum going of her having time out. I don`t think it was mentioned much after the beginning.

 

[DollyDiamond]

Regarding the degradations, I fail to see the relevance as far as the jury is concerned - surely all they are interested in is if he killed her or not.

I doubt it would even affect the sentence as his dishonesty and deviousness must surely be more aggravating factors than what happened to the body.

Secreting Helen and Boris in the cesspit within the family home was probably IS' biggest mistake because it proved she had been murdered, and most probably by him. I guess the degradation of Helen's body in human excrement may be more a matter for the judge, as he could regard it as an aggravating feature when it comes to sentencing.

I believe in the context of the crime as a whole (and its background), the cesspit reveals a great deal about IS. It takes a special kind of ruthlessness to kill your fiance, the person who you were discussing wedding venues with just hours earlier, then drag her corpse to the most revolting location imaginable, with some effort force her body inside there, (and that of her dog), and then shut down the lid. Later that evening IS ate a Chinese takeaway and chatted with his son, just yards from that filthy tomb. This is the very opposite of a crime of passion - it is dispassionate and cold blooded in the extreme.

The cesspit exposes his dishonesty and deviousness - it proves not even the conventions of basic human decency would prevent him from covering his tracks. Once the jury has agreed no one but IS could have placed Helen's body there, his lifelong charade of being a decent man crumbles into a million pieces. When he was on the stand, he himself described Helen's murder and disposal as 'Sick and disgusting'. Those words sum him up, in my view the cesspit clearly demonstrates what a sick, disgusting and dangerous killer he is.

 

[Interested Bystander]

I bet they didn't expect to be paying out 20 years later. Normally critical illness is deemed as life threatening. I wonder if this illness would be covered nowadays.

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Lol I bet they didn't. Until 1985 30% of MG patients died. Once a drug regime had been perfected it reduced the death rate considerably.

 

[michelle230]

Only if you are acquitted I believe. :lookingitup:

ETA:

Quite apart from the income test, this I think is the most applicable thing in this case. His cash and assets are well above the limit.

It's very confusing and convoluted system, so here is the link for others to make an opinion. Numbers are really my weak point.


http://www.ppg-solicitors.co.uk/legal_aid.php

So - is a house you own/live in a capital asset? Seems to relate more to business premises? Can only find sites based on U.S. law, or U.K. laws for CGT

 

[janeh]

Hi janeh : I take your point, I was only referring to Disability Allowance though - I know nothing about ESA.
Higher rate DLA would be approx £80. per week and Mobility Allowance Higher Rate nearly £60. pw. Not liable for tax.
Of course there are other allowances awarded for people under pension age, as IS is. I am not familiar with these.
Whatever allowances he got I don't think he was really eligible, except in his own mind !!


ETA Could he have been claiming Attendance Allowance also? Wouldn't put anything past him.

Yes he probably was, anything he could get his hands on I bet. I know about benefits like this as my husband was unwell for a while and was paid DLA and ESA. The rules nowadays are very harsh and people who really struggle with their illness or disability are refused benefits. I know of those in genuine need and much older than IS was at the time he became ill who have no disability income at all and actually deserve that support.

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[Alyce]

I like those words before lunch


The judge will continue summing up on Tuesday at 10am and the jury has been told they will be sent out to consider verdicts before lunch after a six-week trial at St Albans Crown Court.


http://www.irishexaminer.com/breaki...to-begin-deliberations-on-tuesday-778035.html

 

[peter010101]

Something that i am interested - sorry, i mean curious - to know:
how is liability for defense costs affected by the choice of an expensive counsel
a) in the case of conviction
b) in the case of acquittal.

 

[Moll]

All of the above???

I should have said lady's you are right Michelle. Thank you

Getting back to essentials,I think you could have stuck by your original choice, net. After all, even if only yours was involved, it was underwear intended for ladies, and thus ladies' underwear.

I'm sticking to trivia here because am no good on finances: this is possibly why I find it odd when someone makes such urgent arrangements as Helen did for future eventualities. But, whatever the defence says, they are clearly vital to the case.

 

[Moll]

I like those words before lunch


The judge will continue summing up on Tuesday at 10am and the jury has been told they will be sent out to consider verdicts before lunch after a six-week trial at St Albans Crown Court.


http://www.irishexaminer.com/breaki...to-begin-deliberations-on-tuesday-778035.html

Yes - here too:
http://www.itv.com/news/anglia/2017-02-20/helen-bailey-murder-trial-jury-to-start-deliberations/